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Thread: Democratic Socialism Supports Robust Capitalism

  1. #21
    Senior Member catherine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosemary View Post
    If you add the cost of U.S. health insurance to the average family's taxes paid per year, I think it would probably exceed the tax rate of the Scandinavian countries. Then add the cost of daycare, extra time off work, etc. for a complete comparison.
    Exactly--I did a back-of-the napkin calculation at how much 20 years of self-employed healthcare premiums/college education for my four kids/4 years of daycare for 2 children comes out to, and it was three-quarters of a million dollars. Of course, most people have employer-based healthcare, so that number would be a lot less even though employees are carrying more of the burden of cost these days.

    Would I accept a 50%+ increase in my tax rate to avoid paying $750k out of my own pocket? What a silly question.
    "Do any human beings ever realize life while they live it--every, every minute?" Emily Webb, Our Town
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaneV2.0 View Post
    Suicides, except in the most egregious cases, are probably unconnected to politics. Genetics, climate, SSRIs and similar drugs, and despair over being unhappy in a place where most of the population isn't, is more likely.
    AKA, Epstein didn't kill himself?

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by catherine View Post
    Exactly--I did a back-of-the napkin calculation at how much 20 years of self-employed healthcare premiums/college education for my four kids/4 years of daycare for 2 children comes out to, and it was three-quarters of a million dollars. Of course, most people have employer-based healthcare, so that number would be a lot less even though employees are carrying more of the burden of cost these days.

    Would I accept a 50%+ increase in my tax rate to avoid paying $750k out of my own pocket? What a silly question.
    If itís such a no-brainer, why arenít any of the Democratic candidates making that argument? Why is Warren, for instance, squirming on the hook of M4A to the extent she is?

    You would think it would be an easy sell, promising to ease all sorts of financial burdens in exchange for a higher tax on income and a ramped up deficit. Could there perhaps be some skepticism, even among Democrats, that these promises could be delivered on to the extent that the cost would be justified?

  4. #24
    Senior Member Rosemary's Avatar
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    They haven't presented it in that way, have they? "Pay for your health insurance on your tax bill. It will cost you less in the long run." Why haven't they? First, "tax" has been turned into the foulest, dirtiest of words. And second, it's pretty rare for any politician to present a simple bill with columns of numbers. Maybe it's time for someone to do so...

  5. #25
    Senior Member iris lilies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by catherine View Post

    ...Would I accept a 50%+ increase in my tax rate to avoid paying $750k out of my own pocket? What a silly question.
    I know! Daycare and private college costs and etc. all shared with other taxpayers! A better deal!

    ...for you.

  6. #26
    Senior Member dmc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iris lilies View Post
    I know! Daycare and private college costs and etc. all shared with other taxpayers! A better deal!

    ...for you.
    i have two kids and the math doesn’t work for me either. But they went to state schools. And unlike taxes, the cost eventually ended.

  7. #27
    Senior Member jp1's Avatar
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    We should probably close the public elementary and high schools as well. Why should I have to pay for other peopleís kids to get educated?

  8. #28
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jp1 View Post
    We should probably close the public elementary and high schools as well. Why should I have to pay for other people’s kids to get educated?
    Every man for himself; sink or swim; so proud to live in DogEatDogistan.

  9. #29
    Senior Member iris lilies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jp1 View Post
    We should probably close the public elementary and high schools as well. Why should I have to pay for other people’s kids to get educated?
    Thank you for playing, you brought up the obvious rejoinder. So, here is my response:

    I think that publicly subsidized education for all is one of three main tenets that made this country great. (The other two are natural resources and a clearly written, strong, constitution.) I won’t go into all of the reasons why publicly funded education is great and even necessary for a free society because we agree on that point.

    But—

    * publicly funded education doesn’t have to look like it does now, devolving into various problems that likely will not be solved with more money
    * publicly funded education cannot be all things to all people, so stop pretending only more money will make it Mecca
    * publicly funded education will never level the playing field of outcomes, so stop pretending it will
    * publicly funded education is the growing beast that eats increasing tax dollars for disproportionate gain (not necessarily the fault of educators! parents and societal values get my blame)
    * publicly funded education already over reaches in some ways: adding post secondary offerings just pushes that trend onward
    *publicly funded post secondary education is not for everybody, in fact, it is for many fewer than now attend, and there is NO WILL among the American electorate to put stringent entry requirements in place to remedy that

    These are just a few of my problems with publicly funded education.


    That which someone works for is more valued by that person.It can be and often is a maturing process for young people to figure out how to pay for their college educations while also working to earn money for that experience.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaneV2.0 View Post
    Every man for himself; sink or swim; so proud to live in DogEatDogistan.
    Isnít there a middle ground between Dogeatdogistan and the Peopleís Republic of Coercia?

    Canít someone express doubts about the wisdom of effectively nationalizing health care or higher education without being some kind of rabid survivalist? I think government is like aspirin. The right dose can relieve suffering, but it can be poison if taken in excess.

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