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Thread: What’s a TERF?

  1. #21
    Senior Member iris lilies's Avatar
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    I knew about Germaine Greer getting dissed. I watched an interview with her. I remember when she was in the far left of feminism, now she on the “other side” or perhaps not.maybe she is just an outlier to the core.

  2. #22
    Senior Member iris lilies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by razz View Post
    Wow, Simone, is all I can say to the links that you shared. I had no idea that all this was going on. I have believed that gender orientation was male, female or gay. Is it the trans that makes all the difference?
    In any movement for change there always factions with different points of view. The women’s movement is huge and there are many aspects to it. Remember when, just a few years ago, there was a march on Washington? That effort was clouded by infighting of major proportions having to do with women of color being shut out of planning and execution of the event.

  3. #23
    Senior Member catherine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by razz View Post
    Wow, Simone, is all I can say to the links that you shared. I had no idea that all this was going on. I have believed that gender orientation was male, female or gay. Is it the trans that makes all the difference?
    "Gender orientation" is actually two different things: Sexual orientation (heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, asexual, etc) is different than gender identity (identify as male vs female). Then queer bridges gender identity/sexual orientation (I believe).

    I think these issues are really complex, and I understand the feminist perspective. I remember a post here on this forum a couple of years ago (the one that's still kicking around--2020 Candidates) and when we had a discussion about what woman would make the best president, interestingly a couple of men on this board picked trans women (I remember Chelsea Handler was one--can't remember the other)--that really struck me. Did the male traits carry over somehow as desirable leadership traits? Or is there some subliminal aspect of believing that once-male people would have to be better presidents than cisgender females? Why would only once-male candidates come to mind as great leaders? Following that discussion, no one could even pinpoint any female candidates--there were very few women who came to mind.

    I agree with the writer of the Economist article that Simone posted. So now, we are in danger of transfemales appropriating feminist issues, and somehow elevating their own issues that could drown out the issues all women still need to keep upfront in the public discourse.

    SIDEBAR: This topic also reminds me of my experience at an all-women's college in the 70s. Back then, the direction was that women should break into male institutions and male-dominated occupations to advance the feminist agenda; my college stuck resolutely to the idea that being educated without male influence allowed women to not be silenced and trained us to speak out without "asking for forgiveness" (reference to Yppej's observation that the two female candidates in last night's debates asked for forgiveness), or being intimidated by males in the classroom, or having fewer leadership opportunities on campus. It was a great idea, but it didn't sell. Today there are only 34 women's colleges in the US. My college is not one of them-- unfortunately it didn't survive (Marymount College, Tarrytown, NY)
    "Do any human beings ever realize life while they live it--every, every minute?" Emily Webb, Our Town
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  4. #24
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    I found it fascinating that the Green Party considered “non-men” to be a more inclusive term than “women”.

    All the linguistic and political struggle between subsets of humanity over which group is appropriating which group’s issues makes me wonder if this isn’t more about power than justice.

  5. #25
    Senior Member iris lilies's Avatar
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    Do you all remember the pussy hat controversy? The one where trans women made a stink about pussy hats because they could be/might be/are in fact a symbol inherently disrespectful to women without pussys?

    That’s when I figured the lunatics are making too much noise and I don’t have time to pay attention to that level of ridiculousness. They are marginalizing themselves, they dont need the patriarchy to do it.

  6. #26
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    Good grief--that last article was hair-raising! Rowling has waded into a firestorm.

    I don't believe that a glance at someone's external parts is sufficient these days to determine gender, but I think there's room for rational discourse on the subject. Apparently, there is an army of thuggish social media types who disagree.

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