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Thread: Flying

  1. #61
    Yppej
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    Quote Originally Posted by frugal-one View Post
    Went back and you stated you are still checking out places where you have lived for 50 years.

    You, obviously, missed the point! I was something they were not used to seeing. Any nationality unique to them could have been an advocate. Why are you making a big deal out of my being white? That was not the issue.
    You are the one who wrote the people you encountered had never seen a white person, not that they had never seen an American. It seems you conflate the two terms since you said this made you "an advocate for the USA".

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yppej View Post
    You are the one who wrote the people you encountered had never seen a white person, not that they had never seen an American. It seems you conflate the two terms since you said this made you "an advocate for the USA".
    Being an American was not the issue, being white was. Americans come in all colors. And, yes, I felt that made me an advocate.

  3. #63
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rosarugosa View Post
    I don't think everyone's low hanging fruit is the same, and I think travel can be life-changing for some folks but not everyone. We are all different.
    Thank you. I don't need to be told I don't "get it."

    As far as veganism being somehow a solution to environmental woes, I don't buy it. Eating local, pasture-raised meat (and produce) is a lot more ethical than turning acres over to pesticide-saturated monocrops (like soy), then trucking the resulting product all over the country, IMO. That said, I don't pretend to be a locavore.

  4. #64
    Senior Member Tradd's Avatar
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    Heard on BBC Radio this morning (I listen online) that some UK media travel editor is giving up flying for 2020.

  5. #65
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    Thank you. I don't need to be told I don't "get it."
    maybe they don't get the climate crisis. I mean we have here ridiculous claims: that there is no way to be out of one's comfort zone, that doesn't involve massive carbon usage (for a world population of 7 some billion that can't all live that way or we are screwed). That there is no way to expand one's mind and knowledge and horizons that doesn't involve massive carbon usage (again to a world population of 7 some billion that can't all live that way, or we will fry the planet several thousand times over - and truth is I am not an optimist as is about the situation). One may be into expanding their comfort zone and horizons or not, and whatever, but to see only high resource use ways to get there ... is not the right direction, we need to get as much human flourishing as possible with as little resource use as possible.

    Honestly though if human beings were not so into expanding their comfort zone etc. etc. - endless growth (iow if they were neanderthals and homo sapiens had not come along - they were probably smarter than us but they were not so much explorers it seems) maybe we wouldn't be headed on the road to human extinction and biosphere collapse. Maybe Neanderthals could have lived successfully on earth.

    As far as veganism being somehow a solution to environmental woes, I don't buy it. Eating local, pasture-raised meat (and produce) is a lot more ethical than turning acres over to pesticide-saturated monocrops (like soy), then trucking the resulting product all over the country, IMO. That said, I don't pretend to be a locavore.
    most research does show vegetarianism to be somewhat better (but it really depends, veganism yes, vegetarianism, it gets complex because dairy is pretty high impact and it's a go-to for vegetarians - hey I love my cheese and I'm not even vegetarian, so ...).

    But someone needs to keep the grass-fed beef producers in business I figure haha I do believe some animal agriculture can be integrated into food production, so once a month or so I'll have my red meat. Pretty minimal already.
    Trees don't grow on money

  6. #66
    Senior Member Teacher Terry's Avatar
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    APN, if you won a million dollars are you telling me you still wouldn’t fly to take a international trip?

  7. #67
    Senior Member catherine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ApatheticNoMore View Post
    Honestly though if human beings were not so into expanding their comfort zone etc. etc. ....maybe we wouldn't be headed on the road to human extinction and biosphere collapse. Maybe Neanderthals could have lived successfully on earth.
    I agree... but I have no faith that humans would willingly sacrifice comforts they've grown accustomed to, or turn down greater comforts. My son's saying-- "a luxury once tasted becomes a necessity" --applies here.

    I was a vegetarian for a long time, partly based on the environmental impact argument, but my thoughts have shifted. Silvopasture contributes to a healthy ecology, for instance. I read an interesting book called Defending Beef, written by a vegetarian whose husband raises livestock for consumption, and it provided some interesting perspectives. So eating local, grass-fed beef is a reasonable option.
    "Do any human beings ever realize life while they live it--every, every minute?" Emily Webb, Our Town
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  8. #68
    Senior Member Rogar's Avatar
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    I think that buying locally produced grass fed animal products is a reasonable alternative to vegan or vegetarian. Similarly that buying carbon credits to off set travel is not prefect but also a reasonable alternative to pleasure travel. The David Suzuki Foundation, which I believe has a reasonable list of 10 things to do to stop climate change says, "fly less" and if you do, offset the emissions.

    I have traveled plenty in my times and some of the experiences have certainly been live enhancing. I just feel like I've used up personal travel allotment. My travel bucket list has become short and the marginal benefits are decreasing. I am fortunate for living in an area where people from all over the world come to visit and shorter road trips are my current plan, even if I won a million bucks. To think that travel is an inalienable right does not jive with me.

  9. #69
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    APN, if you won a million dollars are you telling me you still wouldn’t fly to take a international trip?
    no, but there are probably situations I would, if bf wanted to (but he's not into it either - what we actually do together sometimes is go to climate activities! He's sometimes been almost in tears over some bad new climate news). A few other reasons.

    So there is a non-zero possibility, I end up taking an international trip or two or so before my life is over (whether I die of a ripe old age, disease (that all flesh is heir to), or sadly and I give it some REAL possibility - and far greater of a possibility for the young - die of CLIMATE CHANGE itself). But flying is not something I do by and large. And I don't see how if we get everything we are accustomed to now, we have much chance. Things need to change.
    Trees don't grow on money

  10. #70
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    APNM,,,..Honestly though if human beings were not so into expanding their comfort zone etc. etc. - endless growth (iow if they were neanderthals and homo sapiens had not come along - they were probably smarter than us but they were not so much explorers it seems) maybe we wouldn't be headed on the road to human extinction and biosphere collapse. Maybe Neanderthals could have lived successfully on earth.

    All I can say is... oh, brother! As you stated previously, you would travel internationally if given the opportunity.

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