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Thread: What I consider a sane idea to reduce police brutality......

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    Senior Member gimmethesimplelife's Avatar
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    What I consider a sane idea to reduce police brutality......

    What do you'all think of this idea? I propose some kind of limit as to how long one can serve as a police officer period....in exchange for the following delicious perk: Quicker access to full pensions.

    My take is that such might reduce some wear and tear on LEO's - and despite their many, many, many (expletive)ups, it is true that they do encounter some of the dregs of society. I can see that this would cause similar wear and tear as I've experienced knowing them for what they are/can be and living in appropriate fear of them. It is true that they do encounter dangerous situations where force is indeed necessary - and it must be draining on them that they have to follow the law more closely due to smartphones video and the open invitation their behavior often presents for large dollar lawsuits....in other words, they can't get away with as much as they once could. Power being flattened via insistence on human rights must be draining when they (expletive) up and in the cases where their behavior is indeed appropriate and in accordance with the law - lots of such situations over years? Even I can see where this leads to burnout.

    So my idea is to cap how long one can be an officer in return for the juicy pension perk sooner - and I'd even be willing to pay between 10 and 15 percent more in taxes to save innocent human lives - to me human life is worth this. Anyway, beyond the politics here if possible - what do you'all make of the general idea?

    I will close by saying I ran this by a few prolific activists in the 85006 and I was disappointed....their take was that the police are no more deserving of a pension or union than an average American citizen is. That's another post for another time......but I still believe some form of my idea, possibly tweaked a bit, might help the problem? Rob

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    Senior Member Teacher Terry's Avatar
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    They already can retire with full pensions after 20 years just like firefighters and prison guards. That’s short enough.

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    I think there are other things that could be done, such as better provision of counseling services and rotation of duties, e.g. desk and beat, and amongst easier and more challenging patrols. Weeding out the bad apples, universal body cams, and other provisions to raise public confidence in officers would help good officers. The AFSCME union should work to make all public sector pensions transferrable so if someone is not cut out for policing they could work someplace else like the DPW to get their years in.

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    You don't say how long.
    You don't say then what your going to do, about and with the command structure. Are we going to have people with no experience, then trying to tell the officers, how to do things, and when they screw up a legal matter, by giving officers illegal instructions; ahem, huge settlements?
    There are already attrition rate issues.

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    Senior Member flowerseverywhere's Avatar
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    I recall you working as a server and saying the extreme stress you were under. At times you may have been subject to verbal abuse and fear of losing your job. It was highly unlikely that you would be killed.

    many of us have worked in law enforcement, are military veterans or have worked in professions where fear of bodily harm or death are real everyday occurances. In my case, I worked in mental health on locked units. I was never assaulted, but many of my colleagues were To this day, I am acutely aware of my surroundings, instinctively get away from people who give me bad vibes, avoid situations where alcohol and drugs are prevalent, know where room exits are etc. A childhood in abusive setting taught me how not to provoke, to stay in the background and blend in so as not to bring attention to myself.

    Racism continues to be a factor, but I donít see any evidence fewer years on the force with promise of a pension will help. If you are scared out of your wits and donít have proper training, the risk of violence goes up. Many police shootings are by rookie officers as well.

    many factors are to blame.
    the proliferation of guns in our society.
    our education funding system, which has poor school districts and rich school districts. It is very hard to rise above poverty without decent reading, writing and math skills.
    the absence of two parent homes and teen pregnancy plays a big factor. Any parent can tell you how difficult it is to raise children with all the challenges out there when you have two parents and are middle class. Check out this chart of teen pregnancy by race.
    https://www.cdc.gov/teenpregnancy/about/index.htm
    drugs and gangs

    so the solutions wonít lie in better pensions. Better access to a good education, less teen pregnancy, fewer drugs (thanks you Sackler family),fewer guns and better training. Itís not easy.

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    Flowerseverywhere, how will the solutions you propose reduce pollce brutality?
    Guns - are you saying they should be taken away from officers? British bobbies have traditionally not carried weapons, so this is an interesting idea but it would face massive resistance in the US.
    Education funding - are you saying police academies are underfunded? Or could a different mix of courses including more de-escalation training work with the same funding?
    Teen pregnancy and one parent homes - do a disproportionate number of officers have teen parents or single parents? If so how is this relevant to their ability to do their jobs?
    Drugs and gangs - surely an officer with these issues would not be named to the force?

    Or are you not writing about officers engaged in brutality, but blaming the victims of police brutality and the Sackler family?

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    Senior Member flowerseverywhere's Avatar
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    Yppej what I was saying is there is no easy solution like earlier pensions to the police brutality problem.
    We have large segments of the population who lack decent basic education. Large segments who live in poverty. How are they supposed to be able to support themselves on the minimum wages as elsewhere discussed? And so many guns on the streets, not in the hands of responsible citizens, and drug use makes it very dangerous indeed for law enforcement.

    There is no no simple solution, but steps to overcome some of the societal problems along with better police training could help. The OP proposal, earlier pensions don’t seem to me to be much of a deterrent for officers who are on the front lines making life and death decisions. Some officers. may have drug, alcohol or underlying problems from growing up in poverty, but I don’t see that as ever mentioned as a reason for police brutality. I meant these societal problems make it more dangerous for those on the front lines.

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    Senior Member kib's Avatar
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    Perhaps it would work to rotate LEOs through less stressful areas of law enforcement. Both time off from the stress and potentially weeding out applicants who's main interest in the job is an ego-supporting adrenaline ride. Knowing you have four months of court work or desk time coming every two years and this is not a punishment, it's just part of the job ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by flowerseverywhere View Post
    Yppej what I was saying is there is no easy solution like earlier pensions to the police brutality problem.
    We have large segments of the population who lack decent basic education. Large segments who live in poverty. How are they supposed to be able to support themselves on the minimum wages as elsewhere discussed? And so many guns on the streets, not in the hands of responsible citizens, and drug use makes it very dangerous indeed for law enforcement.

    There is no no simple solution, but steps to overcome some of the societal problems along with better police training could help. The OP proposal, earlier pensions don’t seem to me to be much of a deterrent for officers who are on the front lines making life and death decisions. Some officers. may have drug, alcohol or underlying problems from growing up in poverty, but I don’t see that as ever mentioned as a reason for police brutality. I meant these societal problems make it more dangerous for those on the front lines.
    Is police brutality caused by the victims' lack of formal education? Is police brutality caused by victims' poverty? Or given the disproportionate number of people of color who are victims, is police brutality caused by the victims' blackness and brownness?

    Of course not. Police brutality is caused by police. The solution is not to blame victims or gentrify them away but to hold both law enforcement institutions and individual rogue officers accountable. How many times have incidents made the news and investigative reporters uncover numerous previous complaints about the same officer but nothing was done?

  10. #10
    Simpleton Alan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yppej View Post
    Is police brutality caused by the victims' lack of formal education? Is police brutality caused by victims' poverty? Or given the disproportionate number of people of color who are victims, is police brutality caused by the victims' blackness and brownness?
    Yes, I wouldn't rank them in any particular order or consider your list to be complete but all those things do contribute to brutality, sometimes involving police.
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

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