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  1. #31
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    We are in the Middle East due to oil. All the more reason to pursue green policies. If you factor in the costs of war renewable energy is much cheaper than oil.
    but maybe we don't pursue green policies for the same reason, we have too much invested in being dependent on oil? Who is we? Uh it's not joe blow ("but he drives!" - no sorry, not even,he's not even part of it), it's the U.S. empire and industry.
    If you want something to get done, ask a busy person. If you want them to have a nervous breakdown that is.

  2. #32
    Senior Member gimmethesimplelife's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bae View Post
    My "assets" in this case are a lifetime of experience learning to live in the woods, mountains, and rural areas.

    I saved someone's life just the other day who thought it was a good idea to go for a short hike, and who didn't understand how quickly a day can turn very very bad for those lacking skills and awareness. It took hours, and a rappel down a 500 foot cliff face. In weather so bad that neither the Navy nor the Coast Guard were able to launch and assist.

    Rob - have you ever spent a week or two, unsupported, by yourself, in the woods/mountains?
    No, I haven't.....have you been in a survival situation as dire as what I am getting at above? Survival trumps (no pun intended) all including logic - and you have posted logic, I'll grant you that - posted from a comfortable asset base. That's jyst human reality when the world turns upside down. Look at all who survived on their wits in the woods in WW2 - they didn't all enter the woods with your skills. Survival compelled them to make it up as they went along. Rob

  3. #33
    Senior Member gimmethesimplelife's Avatar
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    Should be just human reality above.

  4. #34
    Senior Member Teacher Terry's Avatar
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    When I first moved to the West coast I was surprised that every year people would die in the mountains hiking. Usually they got lost, cell phones donít work and they find their bodies in the spring. I had a group of friends that I hiked with and one day it starts to snow in October and I think how cool is that. 2 of the group said we have to go down. I asked why and they said because the snow would cover the trail and we could get lost.

  5. #35
    Senior Member bae's Avatar
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    That's a lack of a plan, Rob. It's a fantasy. Some people may get lucky doing it. Most will die, terribly. Betting on luck isn't preparedness.

    Better off to have a reality/data-based plan. Well ahead of time.

  6. #36
    Senior Member gimmethesimplelife's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bae View Post
    Have you, um, been to those mountains and spent a lot of time there? (Glamping doesn't count...)

    I think the common thought of "I'll just flee to the mountains or the countryside" is just a foolish fantasy for most people.

    They lack the skills to survive there, and the local contacts and knowledge to gain the support of the local residents. And haven't really thought through what's going to happen when they and every other person with the same idea decides to try to get there, and try to survive afterwards.

    They'll just die - cold, hungry, thirsty, and suffering from disease.
    ??? What makes you believe I've ever engaged in glamping? Have you read the general gist of my posts at all over the years, just curious? Rob

  7. #37
    Senior Member gimmethesimplelife's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bae View Post
    That's a lack of a plan, Rob. It's a fantasy. Some people may get lucky doing it. Most will die, terribly. Betting on luck isn't preparedness.

    Better off to have a reality/data-based plan. Well ahead of time.
    Not everyone in a brutal survival situation has the luxury of pre-planning, bae, something which you don't seem to understand. This is why I say your assets are showing. Rob

  8. #38
    Senior Member bae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teacher Terry View Post
    I asked why and they said because the snow would cover the trail and we could get lost.
    I've had that happen here, less than a mile from my home, while walking the dog in the forest on a nice sunny day. When suddenly the weather changed, and the snow dumped.

    I rescued two people a couple years ago that were only 500 yards or so from their resort hotel. They'd gone out hiking, wearing cotton clothes, in the fall. They were unaware how fast it gets dark here in the forest, and didn't notice that they had no cell phone reception. They were suffering from moderate hypothermia by the time they were located, and I suspect one of them might not have lived through the night. Had they not lost the trail, or had they been in possession of basic skills and knowledge, they could have had a nice, warm, comfortable night. They did at least have fully-charged smart phones, so they could have filmed their last goodbyes if we didn't find them.

  9. #39
    Senior Member bae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife View Post
    Not everyone in a brutal survival situation has the luxury of pre-planning, bae, something which you don't seem to understand. This is why I say your assets are showing. Rob
    If your stated plan is "I'm a gonna flee to the mountains", it wouldn't seem to require a whole lot of effort to at least go to the library and read a couple books...

    Most of the "assets" I developed for this particular scenario, oh-great-caller-out-of-assets, was when I was a boy, living in a trailer in the woods in hillbilly country, hunting small game and fishing to get food for the family, and checking my trapline.

    I suppose the "asset", as I mentioned above, is skill and knowledge, and connectiveness-to-community.

  10. #40
    Senior Member gimmethesimplelife's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teacher Terry View Post
    When I first moved to the West coast I was surprised that every year people would die in the mountains hiking. Usually they got lost, cell phones donít work and they find their bodies in the spring. I had a group of friends that I hiked with and one day it starts to snow in October and I think how cool is that. 2 of the group said we have to go down. I asked why and they said because the snow would cover the trail and we could get lost.
    Such happens every year at the Grand Canyon, too. Some suicides and some people simply getting lost and making mistakes. Interestingly enough given the 7000 ft altitude on the South Rim and the frigid temps, death seems to happen much more in the Summer, even when averaged out for seasonality. Rob

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