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  1. #4621
    Senior Member Rogar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yppej View Post
    Rogar, mask or vax makes sense to me because it provides an incentive for vaccination. Mask mandates that apply to vaccinated people do the opposite and create moral hazard.

    Of course, anyone who wants to wear a mask should be able to. I even saw one in a bank a few weeks ago.
    The program sounds good on paper. There is supposedly some certification requried to go maskless with a vaccinated staff and all customers, and also follow up audits, but it will be an overwhelming task to enforce.

    I am due for an elective surgery and time will tell whether the medical system by that time will be overwhelmed because the same people who take anti-depressants, statins, blood pressure medications, and other medicines all with risk of adverse effects refuse a covid shot because they've read an article, heard a podcast, or talked with same minded friends. I think it is a cultural issue more than a scientific one.

    We can go back and forth about masks and I have an opinion, but people just need to get vaccinated. Until that happens, the beatings will continue until the attitude improve. The second line of defense is restrictions on mask and social distancing whether you or I like it or not. I believe as one of the German health officials said, eventually everyone will either be vaccinated, cured, or dead. I would add, or combinations there of.

  2. #4622
    Senior Member Yppej's Avatar
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    I ran across a new term the other day - anamnestic. It is when waning immunity is boosted either by exposure to the virus or from booster shots. "Each exposure trains the immune system to recognize and respond to the virus faster" according to this article:

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/med...d=winp1taskbar

    So we will get there, and if instead of hiding behind masks we live normal lives we will get there quicker, assuming masks actually reduce exposure to the virus.

  3. #4623
    Senior Member bae's Avatar
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    Next step - Covid parties! Get your immunity boosted with your friends!

    FFS

  4. #4624
    Senior Member Yppej's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bae View Post
    Next step - Covid parties! Get your immunity boosted with your friends!

    FFS
    When my son had chicken pox as a child a coworker wanted to have his kids play with him so they could catch it since it is better to get it while young and it's mild than when older. Another coworker freaked out that I might have been exposed and I, feeling perfectly fine, was sent home with pay. It takes all kinds.

    So maybe covid parties for the kids so they don't die of covid when they get older and weaker.

  5. #4625
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    I was exposed to chickenpox at least a couple of times and never got it. Mumps and measles, on the other hand...

    I am due for an elective surgery and time will tell whether the medical system by that time will be overwhelmed because the same people who take anti-depressants, statins, blood pressure medications, and other medicines all with risk of adverse effects refuse a covid shot because they've read an article, heard a podcast, or talked with same minded friends. I think it is a cultural issue more than a scientific one. (Roger) ---Yeah, what irony! I avoid Pharma medications, but I was perfectly happy to get the shot.

    At my age, I'll err on the side of caution. I don't mind wearing a mask, and don't consider that doing so abridges my freedom in the slightest.

  6. #4626
    Senior Member Rogar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yppej View Post
    I ran across a new term the other day - anamnestic. It is when waning immunity is boosted either by exposure to the virus or from booster shots. "Each exposure trains the immune system to recognize and respond to the virus faster" according to this article:

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/med...d=winp1taskbar

    So we will get there, and if instead of hiding behind masks we live normal lives we will get there quicker, assuming masks actually reduce exposure to the virus.
    Not something I'd want to try, but I suspect a lot of vaccinated people have inadvently been exposed and just had mild symptoms or were asymptomaic and never realized they had a mild Covid case. It would be spinning the wheel of fortune to do this intentionally. 20% of our hospitalizations are among the vaccinated and I'd not want to be one of them..

  7. #4627
    Senior Member iris lilies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar View Post
    Not something I'd want to try, but I suspect a lot of vaccinated people have inadvently been exposed and just had mild symptoms or were asymptomaic and never realized they had a mild Covid case. It would be spinning the wheel of fortune to do this intentionally. 20% of our hospitalizations are among the vaccinated and I'd not want to be one of them..
    Wait…is that now the latest stat, 20% of hospitalizations are people who have been vaccinated?

    is that true? If true, that number has certainly climbed in recent months. It started out a very small percentage.

  8. #4628
    Senior Member gimmethesimplelife's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iris lilies View Post
    Wait…is that now the latest stat, 20% of hospitalizations are people who have been vaccinated?

    is that true? If true, that number has certainly climbed in recent months. It started out a very small percentage.
    This is creeping me out big time, these breakthrough cases in vaccinated people. This right here is why I approve of mandates - especially Austria's which covers all citizens and residents.

    We are not done with Covid. I believe Europe is the petri dish proving this. I've got two weeks of PTO now and whenever I take it I will not be venturing far. The only countries - as of a few days ago - admitting US citizens with no hassles are Mexico and Colombia - and I question this wisdom even as I make plans for my next border run. Rob

  9. #4629
    Senior Member Rogar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iris lilies View Post
    Wait…is that now the latest stat, 20% of hospitalizations are people who have been vaccinated?

    is that true? If true, that number has certainly climbed in recent months. It started out a very small percentage.
    It might be different where you live, but it's a number our news routinely banters about. A quick fact check, but I've seen it from other recent reliable sources

    Even as the root of this contradiction remains a mystery, the source of the infection spike now gripping this state is clear. Those who are unvaccinated comprise about 80% of infections. At UCHealth hospitals, that ratio holds: 78% of those hospitalized and 91% of those in ICUs are unvaccinated. The ones hospitalized despite being vaccinated are often immunocompromised or significantly older.
    https://www.uchealth.org/today/why-are-colorado-covid-19-cases-spiking/

  10. #4630
    Senior Member Yppej's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iris lilies View Post
    Wait…is that now the latest stat, 20% of hospitalizations are people who have been vaccinated?

    is that true? If true, that number has certainly climbed in recent months. It started out a very small percentage.
    When you go to the hospital they test you for covid. If you test positive you are automatically counted as a covid hospitalization.

    So I could feel perfectly fine, no covid symptoms, then I have a heart attack or stroke. Although I am fully vaccinated and my covid is asymptomatic I will now count as a covid hospitalization despite the fact that covid has nothing to do with why I am in the hospital.

    Hospitals get more money for covid patients. Families get funeral money for "covid deaths". So there are incentives to exaggerate.

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