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Thread: This is dark and possibly upsetting

  1. #11
    Senior Member iris lilies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chicken lady View Post
    Generally when fighting depression, one gives the person tools that do help.

    what exactly would it look like if a therapist “fixed” me.

    when I was anemic and low on energy, I took iron and I felt better because it solved the underlying problem of iron deficiency. I did not take strong stimulants that made me feel energetic while leaving the anemia in place.

    what I would like are some better tools to address the underlying causes of the pain, not tools to make the pain go away.

    what I want to know is how to better fix what is broken that is breaking me. What I want uis a course of action that I can believe will create results. I would like to feel like I tipped the balance, a stretch of time where the good things I helped with feel bigger than the bad things I didn’t, or couldn’t help, or worse - contributed to. where the preventable bad stuff happens to people I don’t know or at least I don’t feel like it should have been preventable by me.

    i have a friend at work who smokes. She knows that I wish she wouldn’t smoke and that I would be happy to support her in any way I can if she decides to quit. If she dies of lungs cancer, I will be sad, and true or not, I will feel like it was preventable, but I won’t feel like I should have been able to do something about it.
    There ARE tools. You reject them. And that is ok because you may very well be right that none of them help you. If only you can relieve your own pain, (the conventional tools are not for you) I wonder what you think of razz’s post which is right on.

  2. #12
    Yppej
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    You cannot fix the underlying causes of the pain in the world. You can only change your reaction to it. You could try Buddhism which focuses a lot on coming to terms with suffering.

  3. #13
    Senior Member catherine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yppej View Post
    You cannot fix the underlying causes of the pain in the world. You can only change your reaction to it. You could try Buddhism which focuses a lot on coming to terms with suffering.
    I agree that Buddhism could be a good tool for Yppej's reason. I was going to say that one of my favorite tools when I get hung up and anxious is the phrase "Detach yourself from the results." Our impact that we make on our life journey can't always be measured but us or anyone. There's no "balancing the scales"--CL, you probably will never know how much your life has positively impacted the lives of thousands of people. That's OK. But as others have said, it's only you who can the thinking that is holding you down.
    "Do any human beings ever realize life while they live it--every, every minute?" Emily Webb, Our Town
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  4. #14
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    I believe that I can fix some of the underlying causes of some pain in the world.

    i do not hurt because I am bad at it. I hurt because I believe I can be better at it. The tools I want are how to learn to be better at it, not how to stop caring if I am making progress.

    I also do not want to be made to believe that I cannot be better at it, which would be either unbelievably arrogant (I am already the best) or a further blow to my self image (sorry, this really is all you will ever be capable of) although the extinction of hope would probably reduce the pain. I’m just not sure about the side effects - so I would probably make a poor Buddhist.

    i want “here is the Trevor project to put on your classroom wall.” “These are interventions that are working, here is a really effective place to apply energy....”

    when I talk about my weight, which is causing pain in my knee and hip, most of you offer a bunch of suggestions about diet and exercise and even though we all agree that there is variation in what works for individual people, there is a huge variety of ideas. Very few people say “take painkillers or get used to the pain.”

    the primary problem I am trying to solve is not the pain, it is the weight. If I can solve the weight, I believe the pain will go away.

    if I can achieve a sense of progress, I feel like the pain will get better.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Teacher Terry's Avatar
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    Therapy doesn’t fix you. There can be 10 people with the same problem and they will each have a different solution. The therapist gives you the tools and helps you find your own solution. Twice in my life a great therapist has helped me. People don’t change until the pain of staying the same is more than the pain of changing.

  6. #16
    Yppej
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    Buddhism is not just about detaching from your pain, but learning to extend compassion to others in effective ways. Sometimes it is just being there. In the West we are focused on doing not being. It seems you are trapped in this mindset that you must have a big list of things you can do to solve problems. But sometimes you have to learn the humility to admit you are not the heroine who can fix everything and that's okay.

  7. #17
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    Well you can not single handedly prevent every young person from committing suicide. How do you want to prevent them from doing so? How do you see it as possible? Because even if you were their parent, even parents sometimes can't and they are with them more than you are. Even therapists sometimes can't. So I don't think you can as a teacher.

    Have you taken courses on how therapists/social workers deal with the pain of losing clients to suicide etc.? Because that's where the direct guidance might be, in people who deal with suicidal patients every day for a living (really though it affects them too, they experience burn out, social worker burnout is a real thing). But I imagine they have some training, and there is probably even information on the type of burnout they experience in helping others. See ha, I'm not saying go to a therapist, but maybe you could learn from what therapists and social workers KNOW in dealing with their clients and living to help another day, if you haven't already - take classes, learn about the subject maybe etc..

    Why do you think so many young people are killing themselves? If you think the causes are social/political you could try political activism, honestly that sounds closer to what you might be seeking then therapy. It will make you feel less alone in confronting social problems as it is people coming together to change society, it's not trying to change it all alone. And it is quite possible the problems are much bigger than can be solved in the classroom, they are social and political problems.

    I have a very low opinion of therapy (having had plenty), but hey if you wanted to try therapy I would not discourage it since I think it's as personal a matter as there can be, but clearly you don't much want to either, and that's ok.
    Trees don't grow on money

  8. #18
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    Chicken Lady first hugs.
    I can tell you from personnel experience that the things IL, Razz and all the others are telling
    you would help. Not help that makes you ignore the world but help that helps you deal
    with your feelings about it.
    Eight years ago at 64 I lost my husband (been with him since I was 15), my best women friend ever,
    (a friend like a sister of 42 years). Since then a sister, a life long friend, and many more.
    I had always thought I was the person who could put on the smile and go on....Ms Strong.
    The sadness was overwhelming but, being old school I thought I Should Just Get Over It.
    Four years ago I realized with some help for my Dd that I was coping but, not thriving, I
    was pushing people away from me. I realized I couldn't stand being sad anymore and had
    gone to angry and becoming bitter about life and the world.
    At 68 I ask my doctor and she sent me to the therapist, NO drugs were suggested just talk.
    It was the best thing I ever did. I learnt how some of my thinking was flawed and how to
    react differently. I went for a year and would go back in a minute if I start feeling that anger again.
    I did not learn to not care, I did not learn to stop trying to be of use to people or
    bury my feelings. I think it has been just the opposite.
    The biggest thing I took away was to not always say I Should be/do a certain thing, or
    the world Should be/do a certain thing.
    Sorry this is so long I am not always good at writing things,.
    And, I think it is like the weight you need to learn about all the tools that are available
    and then find which works for you. It too will be trial and error, but worth the effort.
    Of course you might be able to do more for the world but, it is a big relief to accept
    you can't do it all!

  9. #19
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    The world has always been a cruel place, only the circumstances change. You can find your own windmills to tilt at, but even Mother Teresa became disheartened. I understand a lot of people are feeling hopeless these days.

    The problem seems to be depression, rather than the state of the world--and depression can be intractable. There probably are various actions that would help, if you had the psychic energy to hunt them down. I'm sorry you're struggling.

  10. #20
    Senior Member iris lilies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yppej View Post
    Buddhism is not just about detaching from your pain, but learning to extend compassion to others in effective ways. Sometimes it is just being there. In the West we are focused on doing not being. It seems you are trapped in this mindset that you must have a big list of things you can do to solve problems. But sometimes you have to learn the humility to admit you are not the heroine who can fix everything and that's okay.
    I wrote a long dull post but deleted it, and you said it. This is about humility. The boring old
    Desiderata is the real thing, Simple but hard.

    Anything else I say is just yakking pointlessly.

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