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Thread: voter suppression

  1. #51
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iris lilies View Post
    My point about paper ballot systems, obscure to some, is that many little human hands are still handling thousands of paper products, vectors of disease.

    Yes, disease exposure to many people is reduced when only poll workers are at risk. Which is why I repeatedly invited you all to work the polls whether it be a paper system or whatever.

    Jp1 made fun of an election official who wore protective gear for being around the public for 14+ hours and that seems clueless to me. Going into a polling place as a voter is far less exposure than interacting hundreds of voters in a day.
    This is an unusual situation which is unlikely to recur. The ballots would likely be in transit/sitting around for long enough that any virus would be well and truly dead, anyway. Or they could use one of those U-V chambers medical personnel are starting to use to sterilize masks. And workers could make liberal use of PPE, disinfectant, etc. Has anyone caught a virus from mail?

  2. #52
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    I canít decide whether Wisconsin made the right decision or not in balancing democracy with safety, but I do see the situation as a victory for the rule of law. The state legislature, for either good or ill reasons, frustrated the Governorís attempt to arbitrarily suspend and reschedule an election. The state Supreme Court affirmed their constitutional power to do so. A federal court tried to intervene, but the SCOTUS reaffirmed that the Wisconsin legislature could make law for the State of Wisconsin.

    It may or may not have been a stupid decision, but it was Wisconsinís decision to make. Maybe an extreme example of how federalism is supposed to work. The States are not subordinate to the central government; rather it is the other way around. No matter how afraid people are.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by LDAHL View Post
    The States are not subordinate to the central government; rather it is the other way around.

    See the United States Constitution, Article VI, Clause 2.

    State laws are subordinate to federal laws and regulations when there is any conflict. So if it is not possible to comply with a state law without violating a federal law or regulation, the state law is of no effect.

    See also: Federalist #33, by Alexander Hamilton, and Federalist #44, by James Madison.


    I agree that the actions on election day were fully in accordance with the rule of law.

    Likewise, the rejection of any absentee ballots that were not postmarked before 8 PM on election day, or that were not hand-delivered before the polls closed. "There is no legal remedy", even if a voter feels that their ballot should be counted.

  4. #54
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    While the supremacy clause applies to a direct conflict between state and federal law, which isnít the case here, I was thinking more in terms of sovereignty. The federal government exists by an agreement between the states, and not the other way around. Federal judges dictating state election schedules, absent some violation of either a state or federal law, would strike me as something the SCOTUS is right to strike down.

    Iíve often wondered how it is that various states can pass laws relating to marijuana that would seem to conflict with federal law in a much more direct way.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by ApatheticNoMore View Post
    not plural, possible one county immaterial to the overall results of the election. Look Trump is possible as bad as it gets (although W is in the running), Hillary won the popular vote, the usual types of voters disenfranchisement/discouragement were probably done, but I have never seen any legitimate claim elections were hacked in any way that could possible impact the outcome.
    hacking is hacking...

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by LDAHL View Post
    I can’t decide whether Wisconsin made the right decision or not in balancing democracy with safety, but I do see the situation as a victory for the rule of law. The state legislature, for either good or ill reasons, frustrated the Governor’s attempt to arbitrarily suspend and reschedule an election. The state Supreme Court affirmed their constitutional power to do so. A federal court tried to intervene, but the SCOTUS reaffirmed that the Wisconsin legislature could make law for the State of Wisconsin.

    It may or may not have been a stupid decision, but it was Wisconsin’s decision to make. Maybe an extreme example of how federalism is supposed to work. The States are not subordinate to the central government; rather it is the other way around. No matter how afraid people are.
    It was to the advantage of Republicans (Wisconsin legislature) to have the election. Milwaukee (the largest city) is primarily democratic and 5 of 180 polling sites were available. I also think Evers should have made the request sooner BUT COVID19 should have been a consideration. It is not worth dying to cast a vote.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by dado potato View Post
    See the United States Constitution, Article VI, Clause 2.

    State laws are subordinate to federal laws and regulations when there is any conflict. So if it is not possible to comply with a state law without violating a federal law or regulation, the state law is of no effect.

    See also: Federalist #33, by Alexander Hamilton, and Federalist #44, by James Madison.


    I agree that the actions on election day were fully in accordance with the rule of law.

    Likewise, the rejection of any absentee ballots that were not postmarked before 8 PM on election day, or that were not hand-delivered before the polls closed. "There is no legal remedy", even if a voter feels that their ballot should be counted.
    Today there were boxes of unmailed absentee ballots found at an Oshkosh, WI post office. People had been calling that they had not been received. The clerks checked and kept telling people they were mailed. I hope they find the culprit!!!

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by frugal-one View Post
    Today there were boxes of unmailed absentee ballots found at an Oshkosh, WI post office. People had been calling that they had not been received. The clerks checked and kept telling people they were mailed. I hope they find the culprit!!!
    Were they stored with the completed ballots that are usually found at the last minute in too close to call elections?
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by frugal-one View Post
    It was to the advantage of Republicans (Wisconsin legislature) to have the election. Milwaukee (the largest city) is primarily democratic and 5 of 180 polling sites were available. I also think Evers should have made the request sooner BUT COVID19 should have been a consideration. It is not worth dying to cast a vote.
    I agree that it is primarily Democrats who were impacted, but I don't see how that benefits Republicans in a primary election. Once results are known we may see if Biden or Sanders benefited by comparing their poll numbers to their results. Did it hurt Biden because he tends to do better among African-Americans? Did it hurt Sanders because he relies more on turnout?

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yppej View Post
    I agree that it is primarily Democrats who were impacted, but I don't see how that benefits Republicans in a primary election. Once results are known we may see if Biden or Sanders benefited by comparing their poll numbers to their results. Did it hurt Biden because he tends to do better among African-Americans? Did it hurt Sanders because he relies more on turnout?
    I had that same thought, although Bernie giving up sort of makes it moot. Also, Wisconsin elects Supreme Court Justices (which I always thought a little odd), so it wasnít entirely meaningless.

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