Is COVID exposing a "weak, sniveling" culture?

[Tybee]

I dont see how sincere debate about this can take place.

Seems like it all will quickly devolve into class war, ageist wars, big vs small government war of words, 1% vs 99% war...all war of words of course.
But carry on!

agree

[catherine]

Sorry--I didn't post this thread to start a war... I just thought it was interesting from a sociological perspective. I truly was surprised the Mother Jones, the bastion of liberal, progressive thinking, would lead with that kind of headline.

I still think a genteel debate about the notions of "comfort" vs "sacrifice" is interesting, especially in the context of 21st century culture, when we are far from 20th century hardships like the Great Depression and two World Wars--and if we can keep from antagonizing each other, I'd still be interested in your opinions.

[ApatheticNoMore]

I'm not sure a sincere debate can take place because I'm not sure I accept the framing. Sacrifice depends on what one is asked to sacrifice. Courage too is often in the eye of the beholder, there are clear cases, but there are a lot of gray areas. Do I think people complaining about petty things like not getting their nails done are fools. Well yes I do.

I'm not sure those who think the government should do more do so because they are weak. I don't accept a framing of one's response to covid as not willing to accept that sh*t happens in life. That case would need to be made, that it was not badly handled in the U.S., but just a case of the U.S. being unlucky and sh*t happening. I'm not sure that's an easy argument to make. Even countries that handled it well had some deaths and that is a case of sh*t happening. That much I more than accept, but the U.S. (basket) case ...

I don't think one can make blanket statements about whether people have lost their grit, when it takes so many so much grit just to get through the day in this society. The fools who want their nails done and the like, yes fine whatever, those who issues are primarily consumerist are incredibly privileged (and entitled but that often comes with privileged) folks and you can't generalize much from them.

[jp1]

One could also make the argument that it's the "open things up now" people who lack grit. Yes, shutting things down sucks, but it had a legitimate purpose. Australia, New Zealand, Hawaii, seem to have had the grit to stick with it for long enough that it accomplished, or at least is accomplishing, the original goal of getting the caseload down to the point that testing/tracking/quarantining of any infectious person can succeed. Much of the rest of the US, not so much. So now we've decimated our economy, but haven't reached any of the goals of significantly slowing the spread of the virus or ramping up testing to anywhere near the levels to be able to contain it, and a lot of states are giving up. All of the effort and sacrifice wasted because now cases of illness and death are almost certain to move in an upward trajectory, possibly significantly.

[Rogar]

Since it's been labeled debateless, I'll just say I'm with Simplemind.

[Yppej]

One could also make the argument that it's the "open things up now" people who lack grit. Yes, shutting things down sucks, but it had a legitimate purpose. Australia, New Zealand, Hawaii, seem to have had the grit to stick with it for long enough that it accomplished, or at least is accomplishing, the original goal of getting the caseload down to the point that testing/tracking/quarantining of any infectious person can succeed. Much of the rest of the US, not so much. So now we've decimated our economy, but haven't reached any of the goals of significantly slowing the spread of the virus or ramping up testing to anywhere near the levels to be able to contain it, and a lot of states are giving up. All of the effort and sacrifice wasted because now cases of illness and death are almost certain to move in an upward trajectory, possibly significantly.

Decimated would be 10%. I have heard on the news that some experts expect the next monthly report to show 40% unemployment.

[razz]

It is always hard to compare or even relate the present to the past. What people felt during the WW1 or WW2 wars was different to the present. What the general population expected even in the 50's compared today's expectations is different. It is like comparing apples and oranges - some people seeing these fruit for the first time will have different responses and expectations from those who have had access to them all their life.

World thought has changed tremendously. I know some in communities in the 1970's and earlier who had never traveled beyond 20 miles away their entire life. They saw no need to. I think that a number still feel that way.

Government , jobs and services are now located in larger centres remote from smaller communities. Think of the number of bank branches that have closed in smaller communities as all are expected to go online.

While I think that this could be a good question to explore, it strikes me that an assessment of the parameters is needed first.

[Tybee]

Simplemind's story about her FIL and the prison camp reminds me of a story my dad told about the German prisoners that were in prison camps in South Carolina. They were treated very well, and worked on local farms, and many stayed and married locally after the war. He said that they became outraged at being fed white bread, as they were used to rich whole grain bread, and they even rioted over the bread, saying that it lacked nutritional value.

[rosarugosa]

One could also make the argument that it's the "open things up now" people who lack grit. Yes, shutting things down sucks, but it had a legitimate purpose. Australia, New Zealand, Hawaii, seem to have had the grit to stick with it for long enough that it accomplished, or at least is accomplishing, the original goal of getting the caseload down to the point that testing/tracking/quarantining of any infectious person can succeed. Much of the rest of the US, not so much. So now we've decimated our economy, but haven't reached any of the goals of significantly slowing the spread of the virus or ramping up testing to anywhere near the levels to be able to contain it, and a lot of states are giving up. All of the effort and sacrifice wasted because now cases of illness and death are almost certain to move in an upward trajectory, possibly significantly.

One could certainly make that argument. I have a FB friend who posted the following: "I want to go to a restaurant and have someone cook, serve and clean up. And make me a nice drink. Time to start opening up businesses." This is from a privileged household with 2 homes, a boat, kids in private schools. I guess it's time to start opening up because you want to go out to eat? They are Trump supporters. We are tougher in my household because we are better able to withstand restaurant deprivation.

[Tybee]

Wow, with FB friends like that, who needs enemies?