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Thread: I feel guilty but.....

  1. #201
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    And let me reiterate, property destruction is in no way comparable to the loss of life. We have institutionalIzard murder of black man in our country. I have no right to criticize anyone who is acting out against property when weíre killing them.

  2. #202
    Senior Member jp1's Avatar
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    Apparently law enforcement harming protestors has a very long history in the US. Longer even than the history of the US as a country.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston...re?wprov=sfti1

  3. #203
    Senior Member SteveinMN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife View Post
    Good news! The roofer down the street who has been furloughed told me that he heard charges are coming for the other three sociopathic officers who aided and abbetted the cold blooded murder of George Floyd by standing by and doing nothing.
    Huh. I live here, with my face glued to the TV and newspapers here, and I haven't heard that that's a for-sure...

    While we (*checks watch*) still live with a rule of law, charges lodged against defendants must be proved in court or those people do not get convicted. "Murder 1" may be a satisfying charge to issue in this heinous/inexcusable/terrible/pick your adjective death. But if the state cannot prove that Derek Chauvin set out to murder Floyd specifically, they don't get a Murder 1 conviction and Chauvin walks out the courtroom doors. The state will charge what they believe they can prosecute. It may not be the punishment some would like to see but it's what's available right now. It's what was done in Mohamed Noor's case last year in the shooting of Justine Ruszczyk and it worked at a time when convicting cops is a rare thing.

    I expect that, when the state believes they have enough evidence to try and, presumably, convict the other three (ex-)officers, they will arrest and charge them. I am sure Governor Walz and Attorney General Ellison are quite aware of possible public reactions should they overreach for a conviction and fail to get it. Better to set realistic expectations than talk loudly and reach far -- and do little or nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife View Post
    Thank God! And if they are acquitted? I'd say have a plan for fleeing as America is going to burn, baby, burn. I would not be surprised to see Minneapolis to be a solid sheet of flame if any of these officers is not imprisoned. America has had it's fill. Thank God! Rob
    Rob, you do know that at least two or three members of this forum live in Minneapolis/St. Paul or have loved ones who live here? What we've gone through over the last week is bad enough. Aside from the damage caused by watching someone die in front of you for no good reason, the worst damage in the rioting here affected neighborhoods full of people who already were teetering on the edge of the American economy. Many people, of all colors, are hurting, undeservedly. Maybe I'm reading this wrong -- I certainly hope so -- but you seem to be quite okay with a violent response to acquittal. Is that so?
    Success is to be measured not so much by the position that one has reached in life as by the obstacles which he has overcome. - Booker T. Washington

  4. #204
    Senior Member gimmethesimplelife's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveinMN View Post
    Huh. I live here, with my face glued to the TV and newspapers here, and I haven't heard that that's a for-sure...

    While we (*checks watch*) still live with a rule of law, charges lodged against defendants must be proved in court or those people do not get convicted. "Murder 1" may be a satisfying charge to issue in this heinous/inexcusable/terrible/pick your adjective death. But if the state cannot prove that Derek Chauvin set out to murder Floyd specifically, they don't get a Murder 1 conviction and Chauvin walks out the courtroom doors. The state will charge what they believe they can prosecute. It may not be the punishment some would like to see but it's what's available right now. It's what was done in Mohamed Noor's case last year in the shooting of Justine Ruszczyk and it worked at a time when convicting cops is a rare thing.

    I expect that, when the state believes they have enough evidence to try and, presumably, convict the other three (ex-)officers, they will arrest and charge them. I am sure Governor Walz and Attorney General Ellison are quite aware of possible public reactions should they overreach for a conviction and fail to get it. Better to set realistic expectations than talk loudly and reach far -- and do little or nothing.


    Rob, you do know that at least two or three members of this forum live in Minneapolis/St. Paul or have loved ones who live here? What we've gone through over the last week is bad enough. Aside from the damage caused by watching someone die in front of you for no good reason, the worst damage in the rioting here affected neighborhoods full of people who already were teetering on the edge of the American economy. Many people, of all colors, are hurting, undeservedly. Maybe I'm reading this wrong -- I certainly hope so -- but you seem to be quite okay with a violent response to acquittal. Is that so?
    SteveinMN, no, I am NOT OK with such. Such is not of my seeking. I only posted this because I'm afraid it might happen. Just like with our 8 to 5 curfew here, I worry a great deal for those in the infamous 85006 still employed getting off work after 8 PM. I worry one of my neighbors may be murdered by the Phoenix Police for no reason. Just like I worry for Minneapolis (and ofher cities such as Milwaukie, Baltimore, Atlanta, Houston, Chicago) doing a great deal more burning.

    No happiness comes to me from any of those thoughts. It's just the reality of America. Rob

  5. #205
    Senior Member Teacher Terry's Avatar
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    Here you can be out after the curfew if you are going to or from work or for a medical related reason. Many people will end up with anxiety or PTSD living with this. My sister is much older and lived through the Milwaukee riots in 1968. Terrifying and not fun.

  6. #206
    Senior Member jp1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teacher Terry View Post
    Here you can be out after the curfew if you are going to or from work or for a medical related reason. Many people will end up with anxiety or PTSD living with this. My sister is much older and lived through the Milwaukee riots in 1968. Terrifying and not fun.
    If I were a POC Iíd be doing anything I could to make sure I didnít have to be out after the curfew. Because doing so would risk winding up dead. As a middle aged white dude, not so much worry.

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by jp1 View Post
    If I were a POC Iíd be doing anything I could to make sure I didnít have to be out after the curfew. Because doing so would risk winding up dead. As a middle aged white dude, not so much worry.
    It's too bad our major cities are so often highly segregated. Bystanders were pleading with Chauvin to stop, but there was little they could do. I have wondered what would have happened if I had been walking by and tried to intervene. I would probably have been arrested for interfering with a police officer, but I doubt they would have killed me too since I am middle-aged, middle class, female and white.

  8. #208
    Senior Member gimmethesimplelife's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jp1 View Post
    If I were a POC Iíd be doing anything I could to make sure I didnít have to be out after the curfew. Because doing so would risk winding up dead. As a middle aged white dude, not so much worry.
    Bingo! This is ecactly why I live in so much fear for my Hispanic neighbors. Phoenix really is a tinder box ready to ignite and become Minneapolis in the Sonoran Desert at the first illegal.misstep by police - and the Phoenix Police have historically had no problems routinely and ostentatiously bteaking the law/engaging in brutality. It's just a question of when here.

  9. #209
    Senior Member SteveinMN's Avatar
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    Thank you, Rob. I understand that such a violent reaction may come but I cannot imagine any mentally-healthy person wanting to see it.

    Maybe this past week or so is the Stonewall of the BIPOC (why are B and I included when they already should be part of POC?) situation. I would like to think that there could be an event that could galvanize real change. But after watching a kid shoot up an elementary school and kill two dozen people and seeing about zero change in any of the factors connected to that event, I will believe such change when I see it.
    Success is to be measured not so much by the position that one has reached in life as by the obstacles which he has overcome. - Booker T. Washington

  10. #210
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    Why the hell is "Don't constrict your prisoner's airway for ten minutes" (or at all, preferably) apparently not a given for law enforcement? Even now!

    https://www.insider.com/video-seattl...to-neck-2020-5

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