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Thread: Long-term economics of the pandemic

  1. #81
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    I think one thing the pandemic has highlighted is the bleak future for low skilled labor.

  2. #82
    Senior Member razz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LDAHL View Post
    I think one thing the pandemic has highlighted is the bleak future for low skilled labor.
    So how should society equalize access to educational opportunities? This is not just a US problem but Canada's and other countries as well. Right now in my community, there is uneven internet access and classes are being offered virtually. A school board with fewer students in a largely rural community providing benefits to society has less tax $$$$ left over when needing to provide transport vs a higher urban density with greater number os students. Tax dollars are per student.
    Food and shelter security impact the degree and hours of education received as well.
    I am hearing over and over and over again that education is critical for society's members and future but few seem to agree on making the investment to ensure better outcomes.
    There is one state, maybe Georgia, where a philanthropist is supporting early childhood education and access with very positive results for a child having a positive approach to education and educating the community members on the importance of education.

    So, Idahl, what is your plan for ensuring better outcomes in education. I am not being snarky but genuinely serious.
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  3. #83
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    It won't work anyway as a solution to poverty, if everyone had a great education, the number of good jobs would not necessarily be any more than there are now. I mean I suppose you could make the case a more educated citizenry would attract more good jobs to move to a country, but I think there are lots of other factors weighing in there as well, like costs etc., and if we aren't even doing it as part of a larger policy framework to create more good jobs ... it seems unlikely to work on it's own.

    This doesn't mean education is a bad thing, it just means it won't solve poverty, it might solve the number of people going around proclaiming covid a hoax. So okay education is a social good and boy do we need social good (or will we just produce ever more sophisticated covid deniers?). But solution to poverty? I can't see it.

    So what every labor economist knows — but it still surprises most other people — is that the United States leads the group of rich nations, the Organisation for Economic Co‑operation and Development nations, in the production of low wage jobs. About 25 percent of our jobs pay less than two-thirds of the median wage. That’s about $20,000 dollars a year. We are really, really good at creating jobs that barely make the poverty level for a family.
    https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy...cant-find-jobs
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  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by razz View Post
    So how should society equalize access to educational opportunities? This is not just a US problem but Canada's and other countries as well. Right now in my community, there is uneven internet access and classes are being offered virtually. A school board with fewer students in a largely rural community providing benefits to society has less tax $$$$ left over when needing to provide transport vs a higher urban density with greater number os students. Tax dollars are per student.
    Food and shelter security impact the degree and hours of education received as well.
    I am hearing over and over and over again that education is critical for society's members and future but few seem to agree on making the investment to ensure better outcomes.
    There is one state, maybe Georgia, where a philanthropist is supporting early childhood education and access with very positive results for a child having a positive approach to education and educating the community members on the importance of education.

    So, Idahl, what is your plan for ensuring better outcomes in education. I am not being snarky but genuinely serious.
    The model in healthcare that I have followed in life as well is - assess, plan (exploring all options),
    implement and evaluate.
    I am a huge advocate for education! but that doesn't mean there will be enough of those jobs for everyone. How many college degree graduates are unable to find a job in the fields in which they were educated? Or even related fields? From another perspective, there are the low/unskilled jobs that - personally - I believe will always need to be done. Yes, there is inequity in education, but there is also inequity in opportunity.
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  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by razz View Post
    So how should society equalize access to educational opportunities? This is not just a US problem but Canada's and other countries as well. Right now in my community, there is uneven internet access and classes are being offered virtually. A school board with fewer students in a largely rural community providing benefits to society has less tax $$$$ left over when needing to provide transport vs a higher urban density with greater number os students. Tax dollars are per student.
    Food and shelter security impact the degree and hours of education received as well.
    I am hearing over and over and over again that education is critical for society's members and future but few seem to agree on making the investment to ensure better outcomes.
    There is one state, maybe Georgia, where a philanthropist is supporting early childhood education and access with very positive results for a child having a positive approach to education and educating the community members on the importance of education.

    So, Idahl, what is your plan for ensuring better outcomes in education. I am not being snarky but genuinely serious.
    The model in healthcare that I have followed in life as well is - assess, plan (exploring all options),
    implement and evaluate.
    In addressing a skills gap, I think it perhaps more productive to talk about training than “education”, with all it’s baggage of politics, ideology and status anxiety. We should probably re-examine the idea of the four year degree as a professional credential, in favor of looking at ways to deliver training and assess skills for any given role in the workplace. Maybe more shorter-term training and certification programs on a continual basis over the course of a career. The technical colleges and military training systems might be better templates to look at than a higher education system that increasingly resembles multi-tier marketing schemes producing a lot of useless credentialing and questionable debt.

    At younger ages, I think we should try making the system as diverse as possible along a spectrum from home schooling to private and charter schools to the traditional public education so beloved of teachers unions. Reinforce success and starve failure based on results. Maybe look at the old systems of vocational education or apprenticeships to produce as many employable people as possible.

    I think part of our challenge is adapting education/training delivery systems to the needs of the 21st century, and part is changing our attitudes and expectations concerning education. I think right now we rely on it too much as a status marker rather than for itÂ’s economic value or the old education for itÂ’s own sake value.

  6. #86
    Senior Member bae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LDAHL View Post
    I think one thing the pandemic has highlighted is the bleak future for low skilled labor.
    What sorts of jobs are you thinking of?

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    In a similar discussion about 25 years ago in a college class, I asked “but if this is our definition of assimilation (ie: one component being not working blue collar jobs per the professor’s definition) and if everyone gets assimilated as per the ideal - then who will change our oil and stock the supermarket shelves?”

    I was arguing that we need a broader definition of assimilation. We need better working conditions and pay for all jobs. Because we need someone to change our oil.

    The professor was not impressed. I think she didn’t know what to do with a 30 -something student bringing the real world to the classroom.

  8. #88
    Senior Member bae's Avatar
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    And, what's wrong with blue collar jobs? (Which are, of course, not all unskilled, some require considerable training and expertise.)

    I suspect an economy where we all code apps from home isn't going to work so well.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by bae View Post
    And, what's wrong with blue collar jobs? (Which are, of course, not all unskilled, some require considerable training and expertise.)

    I suspect an economy where we all code apps from home isn't going to work so well.
    Not until someone comes up with an app that actually changes the oil. And not one that just schedules some freelance worker to come to your house and change your oil in your driveway.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by bae View Post
    What sorts of jobs are you thinking of?
    By low skilled labor? Jobs requiring little by way of training or skill. Often found in retail, food service or Congress.

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