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Thread: Deep realization today - coronavirus related.....

  1. #11
    Senior Member razz's Avatar
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    Seems to me that individualism goes in cycles. During the 30's, did not many of today's support systems get established? Are not the financial supports going on right now helping most?
    Individualism is also a form of fear that is pervading some societies but not everyone in those societies or all the time. Poor communication skills and few venues for doing so on a regular basis lead to a lack of trust in others and greater defensiveness, IMHO. Social media has exaggerated the problem but was not the cause.

    Basically, there seems to be confusion between individualism or "me first" vs "self reliance within a society.
    As Cicero said, “Gratitude is not only the greatest of virtues, but the parent of all the others.”

  2. #12
    Senior Member Teacher Terry's Avatar
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    More mom’s are working than probably 30 years ago so that could account for some of the loss of involvement.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by iris lilies View Post
    Anyone can “be nice “and show kindness in any situation regardless of being ruggedly individual or not. I don’t think that speaks to the deeper core of selflessness in building community.


    I do think that people who move around a lot, in my neighborhood they tend to be renters, do not get involved in neighborhood issues. But we also have plenty of people who are transferred to St. Louis and live in my neighborhood for five years and then move on, but they still in that five year period leave their mark by working to build our social fabric.

    I have mentioned this before, but one of the big demographic changes we have seen in our neighborhood now are many young families. Couples with young children into school-age range. School-age children were pretty rare around here when we moved in 30+ years ago.


    And while we always wanted to be a family friendly neighborhood, now we find that one reason it’s so hard to get volunteers is because these families are busy raising their children. There’s nothing wrong with that. But I will also say urban pioneers here who had children built up the neighborhood so they managed to do both.


    I guess what I see here now is a more insular in world focus of these households with children. Sure they go to the park, and participate in child oriented activities, and socialize with their “mom‘s” group but dont pitch in to help with the hard stuff. I see them taking and using the services that we’ve built up rather than contributing to those foundational services. On the other hand, the fact that they are very active in neighborhood activities is a huge positive sign.
    From your description, it sounds like these families with children ARE actually participating and contributing, just not necessarily where YOU think they should be. Do you know how much they are volunteering at the schools - which is good for the community? Or recreational sports, which is also good for the community and sometimes the local businesses? Just saying that contributing and being part of a community happens in many ways - ALL for the benefit of that community.
    To give pleasure to a single heart by a single act is better than a thousand heads bowing in prayer." Mahatma Gandhi
    Be nice whenever possible. It's always possible. HH Dalai Lama
    In a world where you can be anything - be kind. Unknown

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by razz View Post
    Basically, there seems to be confusion between individualism or "me first" vs "self reliance within a society.
    Definitely a good point to ponder further!
    To give pleasure to a single heart by a single act is better than a thousand heads bowing in prayer." Mahatma Gandhi
    Be nice whenever possible. It's always possible. HH Dalai Lama
    In a world where you can be anything - be kind. Unknown

  5. #15
    Senior Member razz's Avatar
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    DD1 and I were talking about younger parents and their involvement. Youth groups are gobbling up vast hours of time as children are so organized these days and doing something every day now, it seems.
    Part of the challenge is finding leaders to mentor those coming along. Add to that, the degree of judgement on whether what is done is being done according to someone's view which is then discussed online.
    As my signature says, gratitude for any effort and support would really help build.
    As Cicero said, “Gratitude is not only the greatest of virtues, but the parent of all the others.”

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by razz View Post
    DD1 and I were talking about younger parents and their involvement. Youth groups are gobbling up vast hours of time as children are so organized these days and doing something every day now, it seems.
    Part of the challenge is finding leaders to mentor those coming along. Add to that, the degree of judgement on whether what is done is being done according to someone's view which is then discussed online.
    As my signature says, gratitude for any effort and support would really help build.
    Over-scheduling kids seemed to definitely be a "thing" when my kids were young - although we limited them significantly! But - at least in my area - I'm seeing less of it. Yes, the kids are participating, but NOT in "everything" like it used to be.

    And I do like your tagline... I'm a firm believer in gratitude as well.
    To give pleasure to a single heart by a single act is better than a thousand heads bowing in prayer." Mahatma Gandhi
    Be nice whenever possible. It's always possible. HH Dalai Lama
    In a world where you can be anything - be kind. Unknown

  7. #17
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    I don't know if the U.S. is even individualistic, depending on how one defines that (certainly not by some definitions: "showing great independence or individuality in thought or action" - yea nah, the u.s. has it's own form of strong pressures to conformity). I don't think it's the primary aspect. Compared to Asia it might be so.
    Trees don't grow on money

  8. #18
    Senior Member iris lilies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by happystuff View Post
    From your description, it sounds like these families with children ARE actually participating and contributing, just not necessarily where YOU think they should be. Do you know how much they are volunteering at the schools - which is good for the community? Or recreational sports, which is also good for the community and sometimes the local businesses? Just saying that contributing and being part of a community happens in many ways - ALL for the benefit of that community.
    yes, there is a ton of volunteering to support the charter elementary school here in our neighborhood, so you are right. This school is very important for our community. We wanted a local school for decades, and now we have it. We have an official neighborhood liaison who reports regularly at our neighborhood meetings.

    edited to add:

    I guess this is the 3rd wave of development for our neighborhood, the generating of small children and their support systems. Once phase 1 was completed in saving and renovating Victorian structures, and once phase 2 was in place with framework to improve and maintain businesses, parks, and surrounds, phase 3 came in. Phase 3 is children.

    There are a couple of young families living here where one of the parents was raised here. Their parents, grandparents to the tiny tots, are still living here. One of them just bought a huge 5,000 sq house in need of major updating. Since he grew up in a house in a state of renovation, this one merely needing updating seems luxurious.

  9. #19
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    The most ironic is if you get involved in environmental groups and it's always: there are a bunch of people without kids but noone with kids. But they have no time etc. Yes, but just whose kids is it that are going to be inheriting these problems?
    Trees don't grow on money

  10. #20
    Senior Member bae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife View Post
    I'd have a hard time seeing similar mass round ups in the US.
    (cough) Manzanar (cough)

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