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Thread: Repeal of Obamacare

  1. #1
    Senior Member Zigzagman's Avatar
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    Question Repeal of Obamacare

    As someone that really supported and pushed for Single Payer/Public Option (multiple political rallies at the Capital in Austin) I admittedly was disappointed with parts of Obamacare. We came so close but just couldn't get a few conservatives to help. I'm not sure anyone even knows what Obamacare is really about - much less ready to repeal it.

    Most of the benefits don't really kick in until 2014. What the hell is up with pushing legislation off 5 years? I would love to see real alternatives to our present healthcare system. Even in Obamacare we still refuse to negotiate for better drug prices. What is that all about?

    I personally hope that now that the "Grey Ones" have taken back over at least part of government maybe we can talk about how to deal with the most rapidly rising expense that most Americans have to face.

    How about we join the rest of the western civilization and care about something other than money....maybe people!

    Repeal Obamacare....... for what?

    Peace

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    just the fact that it is called Obamacare is an insult. Many people worked long and hard to have this passed and I cannot see completely doing away with it. There is a whole generation of young adults with no healthcare. Out of college and no jobs to be found and especially no jobs with healthcare. Same for those kids age 18 and over who cannot stay on their parent's insurance. If you are lucky enough to have insurance through work, you'd better not get a serious illness because the insurance companies have alwayes decided when to cut us off. If other countries can have healthcare for all, then we can do it. I'd say that all the lobbying by drug companies and healhcare orgainizations have brought about most of the crap we are hearing about the 1st goal of the newly elected officials in DC. As long as corporate greed is in control of our politicians in America we will not be joining the rest of western civilization, not for long anyway.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Crystal's Avatar
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    <not speaking as a mod or admin> I'm not sure we will ever have the health care that other countries do. We are really a center-right country, and the center-right viewpoint is less government, lower taxes, more security and military, and less paying for stuff for other people. If they want to pay for charity for someone, they'll do it on their own or through a charity organization. And that is the bottom line. The fact that you or I are willing to share through our taxes to improve the well being of others is moot. Center-right is the majority here, they ain't willing, and that's that. The divide is deep. I don't think we liberals will ever hold the majority in Congress for very long. We can move elsewhere, or we can get used to the facts.

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    Simpleton Alan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrystalAdmin View Post
    I'm not sure we will ever have the health care that other countries do. We are really a center-right country, and the center-right viewpoint is less government, lower taxes, more security and military, and less paying for stuff for other people. If they want to pay for charity for someone, they'll do it on their own or through a charity organization. And that is the bottom line. The fact that you or I are willing to share through our taxes to improve the well being of others is moot. Center-right is the majority here, they ain't willing, and that's that. The divide is deep. I don't think we liberals will ever hold the majority in Congress for very long. We can move elsewhere, or we can get used to the facts.
    I read somewhere that the cost of medical care for US citizens equals over $7000 per person, per year. If the government is to cover that cost through taxation, could we maintain a progressive tax structure, or would we need to revert to a severely regressive system, or, would we just redistribute someone else's earnings and wealth?

    Speaking from a center right position, I'd say that it's not as simple as saying that we're not willing to help others, after all, we're the most generous political demographic in the country. It's actually that we believe in providing an environment of equal opportunity for all rather than equal outcome. It's sort of an offshoot of the tried and true "Give a man a fish....teach a man to fish..." philosophy, or the parental concept of tough love.

    We provide social programs to ensure that everyone has medical care. The only problem that I can see is that the minority of people without private medical insurance will have difficulty getting the government to pay for their care until they've exhausted their own assets. I'll agree that's unfortunate. Is the divide really that deep?

  5. #5
    Senior Member freein05's Avatar
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    Health care costs need to be brought under control. In the past few years overall inflation has been 0 or less and health care inflation has been about 10%. Medicare will go broke if health care expenses continue to increase at the rate it has been. Private insurance will also be unaffordable. The health care insurance bill was a start maybe not a good one but a start. 30 million people not insured and I think millions more every month losing their insurance is not a small number.

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    Senior Member Crystal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alan View Post
    Is the divide really that deep?
    I'll bet it is to WJSimon and her daughter.

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    Senior Member peggy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alan View Post
    I read somewhere that the cost of medical care for US citizens equals over $7000 per person, per year. If the government is to cover that cost through taxation, could we maintain a progressive tax structure, or would we need to revert to a severely regressive system, or, would we just redistribute someone else's earnings and wealth?

    Speaking from a center right position, I'd say that it's not as simple as saying that we're not willing to help others, after all, we're the most generous political demographic in the country. It's actually that we believe in providing an environment of equal opportunity for all rather than equal outcome. It's sort of an offshoot of the tried and true "Give a man a fish....teach a man to fish..." philosophy, or the parental concept of tough love.

    We provide social programs to ensure that everyone has medical care. The only problem that I can see is that the minority of people without private medical insurance will have difficulty getting the government to pay for their care until they've exhausted their own assets. I'll agree that's unfortunate. Is the divide really that deep?
    Equal opportunity without equal outcome. Kind of a nice way of saying, I got mine, to hell with you!
    Teaching a man to fish is fine except when there aren't any fish in the pond.
    I guess I could REPEAT the fact that government sponsored health care isn't a case of sucking the government dry, but really the ideal situation of EVERYBODY pays into a system EVERYBODY will need eventually. See, everyone pays. The responsible thing to do. But, republicans aren't into responsibility so much. They aren't the party of responsibility, as it turns out. I guess i could repeat the fact that most people, as in the majority of Americans, kind of like the provisions of the new health care, even though it doesn't go far enough. I could repeat these things, but I'm tired and you all aren't listening anyway.

    So I'll be like Oprah...or Sarah. :0 You get a Death Panel! :0 And you get a Death Panel! :0 And you get a Death Panel!

  8. #8
    Senior Member Zigzagman's Avatar
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    I think the present charade in Washington is just another political show by the "center-right". The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (Obamacare) will not be repealed. In fact as I said earlier it hasn't even started yet for the most part. The individual mandate, Medicaid expansion, creation of health insurance exchanges, and prohibition of preexisting condition exclusions and basing premiums on health status – will take effect in 2014. Hopefully any reform will be in an effort to improve this legislation rather than kill it. I suspect that these battles in Washington and the Federal courts will continue through 2012 and the next election cycle.

    US is a center-right country? I think a majority of citizens would embrace "Medicare for all" or maybe even just equal access to the same healthcare of government employees. We've done the progressive before. We addressed slavery, workers' rights, created a social safety net, and implemented civil rights laws. At the moment of crisis following the 1929 stock market crash we didn't say, "Whoa, everybody just settle down now. We don't want to do anything radical; we're a center-right country, after all."

    I view our country as a progressive train that continually travels forward. Sometimes it is slowed down by "conservatism" braking, sometimes it speeds up with liberal energy, but very rarely, if ever, does it go in reverse. In the meantime the Conservatives are doing a great job of convincing Americans to vote against their own self interests.

    Peace
    Last edited by Zigzagman; 1-6-11 at 12:41am.

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    I also fail to see how repeal is possible.
    Given that, I really wish the GOP would focus its energy on something productive instead of just thumbing its collective nose at the President, the Democrats, and all of its constituents who pay taxes to pay for them to be in office.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Dharma Bum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peggy View Post
    Equal opportunity without equal outcome. Kind of a nice way of saying, I got mine, to hell with you!
    I was kind of hoping the tone would change a little on the move, but c'est la vie. Unequal outcomes are actually a good thing. If everyone was guaranteed the same outcome, why try? It becomes a race to the bottom. What’s your model for this? Soviet Russia? Communist farm communes? How'd those work out? Stick to the goal of providing equal opportunity and rounding off the harsh edges of competition and your position is much more reasonable.



    I could REPEAT the fact that government sponsored health care isn't a case of sucking the government dry, but really the ideal situation of EVERYBODY pays into a system EVERYBODY will need eventually. See, everyone pays.
    I'm in favor of a universal system but even I think this is a weak argument. We all need food. We all need shelter. We want everyone to have healthcare. Some people have trouble getting food, shelter or heathcare. But the solution isn't then to tax everyone and give them government provided food, shelter and healthcare. At least not here yet. We've taken the approach of helping people get housing or food through payments that allow them to access the larger system. When we have provided those benefits directly, the outcomes are questionable. Think public housing projects. As someone who wants to see everyone have access to care, even I think this is where the pro-universal coverage advocates have dropped the ball. It's not enough to say you think everyone should be covered. If you want to provide food and shelter, is it better to have the government give food stamps and section 8 vouchers, or is it better to build public housing projects and nationalize grocery stores? And what does that tell you about healthcare? If healthcare is different, you have to do a better job of explaining why if you want to garner support for universal coverage, which is what I think Obama failed to do in any compelling way.
    Enjoy the strawberry.

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