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Thread: Dying/dead malls.....

  1. #11
    Senior Member iris lilies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teacher Terry View Post
    Affordable housing is the primary need here.
    I think anyone who believes converting a suburban mall into successfully sustainable residential housing units doesn’t know what “affordable” means, but then I have decades of experience watching the federal government’s HUD program spend ridiculous sums of money.

    If you watched their antics you would think that the taxpayers could afford anything. Doesn’t really matter what the bill is for the taxpayers.

    I remember the exact year, it was 1992, that the feds with your tax dollars spent $120,000 On average on the small public housing units up the street from me. All of those units are much smaller than my house. That was the year we had $120,000 into my 2000 square-foot house as we were keeping track during our renovation. I couldn’t figure out what the actual FK they were spending money on, but it doesn’t really matter because spend money they did!!!.

  2. #12
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    Yea build housing, condos or apartments (but good luck trying to get even market rate apartments built when all anyone seems to want to cater to is the top 20% of people who can buy a condo - because who cares about the vast majority of people, am I right).

    But the chances of local government spending less than a million per unit (that's cost not sales price) to built a unit of "affordable housing", is low. So affordable housing LOL, nah housing ok, build housing but it's not going to be all that affordable.
    Trees don't grow on money

  3. #13
    Senior Member bae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iris lilies View Post
    I think anyone who believes converting a suburban mall into successfully sustainable residential housing units doesn’t know what “affordable” means, ...
    Agreed. I have spent decades working on affordable housing here - we've build permanently-affordable 109 homes, and 75 apartments. I was primarily in charge of land acquisition, financing, and our own organization's finances.

    I wouldn't touch a mall-conversion project like that.

  4. #14
    Senior Member catherine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bae View Post
    Agreed. I have spent decades working on affordable housing here - we've build permanently-affordable 109 homes, and 75 apartments. I was primarily in charge of land acquisition, financing, and our own organization's finances.

    I wouldn't touch a mall-conversion project like that.
    Why? Just curious.
    "Do any human beings ever realize life while they live it--every, every minute?" Emily Webb, Our Town
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  5. #15
    Senior Member bae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by catherine View Post
    Why? Just curious.
    The cost to reclaim and remodel the existing buildings and pavement and utilities would likely be prohibitive, even with cooperation from local land use authorities. (It's hard enough to make things work with greenfield projects.)

    This is why these malls sit dead and dying all across America - they aren't an asset, they are a liability.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by bae View Post
    Agreed. I have spent decades working on affordable housing here - we've build permanently-affordable 109 homes, and 75 apartments. I was primarily in charge of land acquisition, financing, and our own organization's finances.

    I wouldn't touch a mall-conversion project like that.
    I think that’s very true, at least in my corner of the Midwest. There are so many opportunities to rehab old housing stock or do fill-in projects in existing neighborhoods, I don’t see how it would make any financial sense to convert a mall type property to housing. The road, sewer and utility work would probably be very high.

    The big problem my organization has encountered has been local opposition to lower income housing, even small projects. I would think in most areas the NIMBY objections to a massive housing project would be very strong.

  7. #17
    Senior Member catherine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bae View Post
    The cost to reclaim and remodel the existing buildings and pavement and utilities would likely be prohibitive, even with cooperation from local land use authorities. (It's hard enough to make things work with greenfield projects.)

    This is why these malls sit dead and dying all across America - they aren't an asset, they are a liability.
    Ugh.. another blight brought on by consumerism.
    "Do any human beings ever realize life while they live it--every, every minute?" Emily Webb, Our Town
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  8. #18
    Senior Member SteveinMN's Avatar
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    Some of those malls will be going with jingle mail in a decade or so.

    They will be starved by the local governing authority (city, county, etc.) of infrastructure maintenance and will dissipate because nobody wants to go to whatever's left in that mall. Too many of those malls were built on the backs of public financing and pension plans which will require them to make a profit when a profit (or enough profit) may not be possible. Then the place withers and dies and becomes that sea of asphalt pocked with weeds and abandoned sofas and big buildings that are tagged by the local turf warriors. The governing authority will spend all kinds of time and money hearing grand visions of repurposing only to see credit markets and societal trends obviate those plans by the time the EIS is finished. The mall will sit for some years longer. Then it finally will be torn down (often at public expense) to make a grayfield that may eventually be filled with market-rate housing or an office building (depending on which one is needed more when the planning begins). The governing authority will decry commerce not stepping up to fill the area's needs without realizing they are the reason it all happened in the first place.
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    Read today that a local mall has a large building that is vacant. The talk is to make it a homeless shelter for men. Supposedly, an upscale development was to be built not far and they are backing out. I don't see how having a homeless shelter at the mall would be a good thing?

  10. #20
    Senior Member bae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LDAHL View Post
    The big problem my organization has encountered has been local opposition to lower income housing, even small projects. I would think in most areas the NIMBY objections to a massive housing project would be very strong.
    Indeed.

    A few years ago, a consortium of folks came together to purchase the other mountain on this island for the public. It was too large of a project for any one conservation organization to accomplish. If we hadn't purchased this mountain, there was the likelihood that hundreds and hundreds of expensive homes would have been slapped down on the mountainside, overlooking us all. The land itself is a priceless natural resource.

    My community land trust was involved in the project, until almost the end. We were contributing financially, in exchange for some small parcels of a few acres tucked away near the edge of the mountain that were well-suited for developing affordable housing, already properly-zoned, and that wouldn't have impacted anyone's view or whatnot. We were going to construct two small neighborhoods of about 12 permanently houses each, where there was existing infrastructure available.

    Just a couple days before the deal closed, some local Very Wealthy People approached the lead agency, bought out our participation, and kicked us out of the deal. They used a fair bit of strong-arm tactics, involving threats of pulling their support to other conservation organizations. I mean, nobody wants "those people" living here, right?

    Anyways, it's a very nice preserve, but...

    https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...an-visit-soon/

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