“An impressive display of sheer competence”

[bae]

I've read about that period in Afghan history--chilling proof that good times could go bad in the blink of an eye.

Look at Sarejevo during the 1984 Olympics, and then look at it just a few years later :-(

[LDAHL]

Maybe I am being naive but both the afghan men and the women have seen an alternative way of life and it will have a huge impact. Yes, they have tribal loyalties but they do love their families just as much as we do. They as a people will find their own route forward.

It took the western world many centuries of alternative ways of seeing things to leave the horrific way of life behind although the colonial period recently around the world helps me understand that abusive behaviour is still ongoing as long as the population tolerates or excuses it. The horrific abuse of Black, indigenous, Chinese demonstrates how shallow is our standard of behaviour. Authors have written very insightfully about this.

I am no fan of nation-building. Nor am I all that interested in writhing in guilt over whatever historical sins you care to accuse people who look similar to me of committing. I remember the orgy of why-do-they-hate-us self-flagellation after the 9/11 attack. I think there is a reasonable approach somewhere between re-engineering other societies and guilt-ridden appeasement.

Why not respond to violent attacks with an appropriate level of well-considered violence? Punitive raids, destabilization, aiding their slightly less evil enemies, etc. Make them pay a price without pretending to be saviors.

[razz]

OK, I am naive. I am seeing more of the bigger picture. The photos reminded me of comments that my dad made about the westernization of the country. He was especially interested in Russia and its future role after WW2. Thanks, Bae.


So it seems that the Shah brought in the western model for society mid-century which was rejected by the religious leaders and from the comments following in Bae's link above, the western model was not uniform for every Afghan just those in certain parts.

Timeline for Afghanistan which shows the Brits starting the current chaos with its intrusion.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-south-asia-12024253

Got really curious so did a Wikipedia search and was amazed discover: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Afghanistan Fascinating country and history!

As I have mentioned a few times before, I am amazed at and delighted to learn new info.

[Rogar]

Maybe I am being naive but both the afghan men and the women have seen an alternative way of life and it will have a huge impact. Yes, they have tribal loyalties but they do love their families just as much as we do. They as a people will find their own route forward.

It took the western world many centuries of alternative ways of seeing things to leave the horrific way of life behind although the colonial period recently around the world helps me understand that abusive behaviour is still ongoing as long as the population tolerates or excuses it. The horrific abuse of Black, indigenous, Chinese demonstrates how shallow is our standard of behaviour. Authors have written very insightfully about this.

From what I've picked up from the news, the Taliban takeover was not a matter of if, but of when. Somewhat due to corruption, poor motivation of Afghan troops, and miss-directed training but the US. We haven't had actual "combat troops" there since 2014 and have been mostly in a support position with equipment, logistics and training. So to preserve the status quo would have required increased involvement to who knows what. That's what I have gathered, though it could be bad intel.

So I have some compassion for the women or other medieval off-shoots of Shiriah law, but the choices seemed to be escalation, possibly including combat troops, or let history take it's course.

[razz]

I spent some more time checking the history of Afghanistan and I apologize for any comments that I have posted. It is way more complex that I had any idea going back centuries. They are a unique people. I hope that they find a peaceful way forward for their population, its health and wellbeing.

I will now revert back to my choice of non=participation in the Simple Policy forum (I do read the threads) as I simply don't understand enough about the issues to comment wisely.

[Tradd]

I’ve long held the opinion, as non-PC as it is, that certain cultures don’t have it in them to be anything close to a democracy. Certain Middle East and African nations come to mind. Tribal culture is a big one. If tribes have been warring for generations, is it even practical to expect them to cooperate in a government? I think the best you can hope for is for the group in power to not kill the ones they don’t like.

Did anyone else hear about the Cailfornia school (high school?) that took a summer trip to Afghanistan? They’re trapped there now. Whose bright idea what THAT, knowing the US was going to be pulling out this summer? I first saw the story on the MSN website and heard it on my local mainstream AM radio station this morning.

[flowerseverywhere]

Kinda not what I said.

We did however historically somehow defeat a society that was made up of “religious zealots who would fight to the death”, and then somehow proceed to win the peace as well.

I see your point. One different thing between now and then are the significant culture shifts. Japan attacked The US and caused loss of life. The Middle East wars are a world away to most people. Of course these days, terrorism, even cyber terrorism can do a great deal of harm to US citizens. It will be interesting to see what History will tell us about the events of the last 20 or so years.

[Rogar]

I spent some more time checking the history of Afghanistan and I apologize for any comments that I have posted. It is way more complex that I had any idea going back centuries. They are a unique people. I hope that they find a peaceful way forward for their population, its health and wellbeing.

I will now revert back to my choice of non=participation in the Simple Policy forum (I do read the threads) as I simply don't understand enough about the issues to comment wisely.

Apologies if it was something I said or the way I said it. I'm not always right and the news isn't always right, but I sometimes enjoy sharing ideas on the policy forum to get impressions from people from different areas and backgrounds. I can sometimes learn something.

[Teacher Terry]

Tradd, I can’t believe a high school thought it was a good idea to go there and that individual parents allowed it. Ugh!

[Jane v2.0]

In happier news, an entire boarding school of Afghan girls and administrators made it safely to an interim location in Rwanda. Also, five of the "robot girls" have relocated to Mexico. They badly need something like an underground railroad there.