Original Sin

[GeorgeParker]

I don't believe in the concept of sin.

I don't believe in the concept of there being people who don't believe in the concept of sin, so
<Gary Cooper Mode> If you're gonna say that, ya oughta explain your reasons.

[Yppej]

Original sin = congenital sin, sin that is an inherent part of human nature

[GeorgeParker]

Define "original sin".

The unavoidable fact that at some point every child defiantly says "no" to even the most loving parent, just because the child wants to assert their own separate personhood.

Only a very foolish child would refuse to eat a bowl of their favorite ice cream, but if a child is mad enough about something you did, they will sit there and watch the ice cream melt instead of eating it, just because you gave it to them and they're mad at you. That is the nature of "original sin" -- intentional separation (hopefully temporary) from someone we ought to love the most.

[Teacher Terry]

I was raised Lutheran with church, Sunday school, etc. For those of us that no longer believe in god there’s no original sin. I think it’s likely Jesus existed and was a prophet and teacher in his time. Religion is a great way to control the masses. As societies become more educated people are less religious. Actually life is easier for believers because you can say it was god’s plan when horrible things happen. Kill someone and be forgiven after you confess to your priest. I forgot who said that religion was the opium of the masses.

Think about all the wars and people killed because of religion that have always occurred and still do. My second husband believed until he went to Vietnam. He told me once I went to college and applied critical thinking skills I wouldn’t believe and he was right. I went to a Lutheran college and almost had a minor in religion. Actually if I still believed life would be easier as I would leave things in god’s hands. My apologies to those that are religious and I don’t mean to offend anyone.

[rosarugosa]

GeorgeParker: My statement was in the context of sin as a religious concept. I think people do good things and bad things.

[GeorgeParker]

GeorgeParker: My statement was in the context of sin as a religious concept. I think people do good things and bad things.

The things I've said about "original sin" in this thread were all related to the religious concept and it's basis in the real world. IOW metaphors for the relationship between God and humans, theories about Old Testament stories being based on the real life experiences all parents have, and what the original meaning of "sin" was at the time the Bible was written. Specifically:

I was told in Sunday School that the word most commonly translated simply as "sin" is the Hebrew word "hata", which literally means "to go astray." Just as Jewish law, halakha, provides the proper "way" (or path) to live, sin involves straying from that path. Likewise, if you get lost in the woods or if you shoot an arrow at a target and miss, you have sinned.

So if you acknowledge that people do both good things and bad things but you don't believe sin (as defined by the church) exists, you and I simply have different definitions of "sin". What I've said about sin is a fairly pragmatic secular viewpoint, but you're welcome to believe that my definition is wrong.

If you want to talk about the Genesis myth, we would probably agree that most of Genesis is either a myth or a folktale version of ancient history. And we would probably agree that certain things some religious denominations call "sin" aren't evil. But if you don't believe in the religious concept "evil" (which is really just intentional sin) you and I will have to say we have irreconcilable differences of opinion and let it go at that.

[catherine]

IMHO "sin" is any thought, word or deed that keeps us separated from God/The Source/Pure Love. "Original sin" is our innate separation from God/The Source/Pure Love. And I would add that IMHO it's also our separation from our natural, more primitive selves--the selves we were before we got evicted from the Garden of Eden.

I like this interpretation because it means we're not "bad"--we're just astray.

[Tybee]

IMHO "sin" is any thought, word or deed that keeps us separated from God/The Source/Pure Love. "Original sin" is our innate separation from God/The Source/Pure Love. And I would add that IMHO it's also our separation from our natural, more primitive selves--the selves we were before we got evicted from the Garden of Eden.

I like this interpretation because it means we're not "bad"--we're just astray.

I love this, Catherine. And add to that that Augustine's interpretation of sin was that we were still reaching for God, just that we were disoriented and reaching in the wrong direction.

[catherine]

And add to that that Augustine's interpretation of sin was that we were still reaching for God, just that we were disoriented and reaching in the wrong direction.

Yes!

[GeorgeParker]

IMHO "sin" is any thought, word or deed that keeps us separated from God/The Source/Pure Love. "Original sin" is our innate separation from God/The Source/Pure Love. And I would add that IMHO it's also our separation from our natural, more primitive selves--the selves we were before we got evicted from the Garden of Eden.

I like this interpretation because it means we're not "bad"--we're just astray.

Exactly. The word "sin" was understood in biblical times as meaning "astray" and a sinner was one who had gone astray. Sinning isn't evil, it's just what we do because compared to God none of us are mature enough to live our lives the way he intended us to. Everything was fine in the (metaphorical) Garden Of Eden until Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit (the knowledge of good and evil) and became ashamed of things that had always been perfectly natural before. IOW rule making is the beginning of civilization and the end of innocence.