Local Police Incident

[Teacher Terry]

This particular young man is probably delusional however he never bothers anyone or gets close to people. He just happily dances and sings in place. With current laws it’s impossible to get him services because you can’t have a coherent conversation. They were talked rudely and in a disrespectful tone and had formed a half circle around him. He went from happily dancing to sitting on the ground looking down and rocking. They were trying to intimidate him and the cops were all large people.

They should have called the crisis team to handle these calls. Crisis counselors or crisis social workers have extra, special training to de-escalate situations. Police need to realize that they are ill equipped to adequately handle this type of situation. As a social worker I am obligated and can be sanctioned and lose my license if I practice outside my scope of experience and expertise.

[gimmethesimplelife]

This particular young man is probably delusional however he never bothers anyone or gets close to people. He just happily dances and sings in place. With current laws it’s impossible to get him services because you can’t have a coherent conversation. They were talked rudely and in a disrespectful tone and had formed a half circle around him. He went from happily dancing to sitting on the ground looking down and rocking. They were trying to intimidate him and the cops were all large people.

They should have called the crisis team to handle these calls. Crisis counselors or crisis social workers have extra, special training to de-escalate situations. Police need to realize that they are ill equipped to adequately handle this type of situation. As a social worker I am obligated and can be sanctioned and lose my license if I practice outside my scope of experience and expertise.

TT, I could not agree with you more, especially your second paragraph. I'm not going to bash the police here folks.....we have enough controversy over in the Health forum. What I will say in this case - the person in question does not sound like a criminal to me. From what's been posted my take is he needs meds, counseling, and some kind of at least temporary housing. Maybe something akin to.a sober living house for those recovering from mental illness/trying to reintergrate into society. I see no reason here period for law enforcement involvement. Rob

[happystuff]

TT, I could not agree with you more, especially your second paragraph. I'm not going to bash the police here folks.....we have enough controversy over in the Health forum. What I will say in this case - the person in question does not sound like a criminal to me. From what's been posted my take is he needs meds, counseling, and some kind of at least temporary housing. Maybe something akin to.a sober living house for those recovering from mental illness/trying to reintergrate into society. I see no reason here period for law enforcement involvement. Rob

I agree with this, but the problem is that nobody wants "them" (such "recovery" housing, etc) in their neighborhoods.

"Yes, provide the help! But NOT here!" is what I continually see in my own area.

[bae]

In my area, the police and other first responders receive training in dealing with mental health issues, and we seem to have a pretty good track record of acting with compassion.

The County doesn't really have a special "crisis team" - we have some mental health professionals on staff/call, but they rarely are on-scene in the initial stages, given the geographic challenges we have here.

The constant problem we face is: "now what?" There aren't in-county mental health beds/care facilities. In fact, they are in short supply for people in crisis all over the state of Washington. We sometimes spend hours on the phone/radio trying to find someplace that can accept our patient, and the success rate there isn't nearly as high as I'd like to see.

The whole system is a bit broken.

[happystuff]

In my area, the police and other first responders receive training in dealing with mental health issues, and we seem to have a pretty good track record of acting with compassion.

The County doesn't really have a special "crisis team" - we have some mental health professionals on staff/call, but they rarely are on-scene in the initial stages, given the geographic challenges we have here.

The constant problem we face is: "now what?" There aren't in-county mental health beds/care facilities. In fact, they are in short supply for people in crisis all over the state of Washington. We sometimes spend hours on the phone/radio trying to find someplace that can accept our patient, and the success rate there isn't nearly as high as I'd like to see.

The whole system is a bit broken.

Yes, the system may be broken, but it sounds like you and yours are doing the best they can - especially when I see you use the word "compassion"!!! Kudos!

[iris lilies]

This particular young man is probably delusional however he never bothers anyone or gets close to people. He just happily dances and sings in place. With current laws it’s impossible to get him services because you can’t have a coherent conversation. They were talked rudely and in a disrespectful tone and had formed a half circle around him. He went from happily dancing to sitting on the ground looking down and rocking. They were trying to intimidate him and the cops were all large people.

They should have called the crisis team to handle these calls. Crisis counselors or crisis social workers have extra, special training to de-escalate situations. Police need to realize that they are ill equipped to adequately handle this type of situation. As a social worker I am obligated and can be sanctioned and lose my license if I practice outside my scope of experience and expertise.

It may well be that this particular incident involved twice as many police officers and a bigger intimidation factor than necessary.

But I do not buy that police officers have zero training in de-escalation and dealing with mentally ill people on the street. We have had this discussion before. That doesn’t mean that they have the extensive training that you have, but then, are social workers really doing a complete evaluation and/or therapy in the first 20 minutes of a call for service for a street person? No they’re not.
And any training of law enforcement personnel will vary from district to district.

[Teacher Terry]

We closed the psychiatrist hospitals under Reagan because they were hell holes. The plan was to provide services in the communities. But the feds didn’t provide enough money and kept the rest of the savings. Prior to this event you rarely had people on the street. Here the group homes are not announced to the community in advance so people can’t oppose them. Once established there haven’t been enough problems for it to be a big issue.

Also laws changed in all these decades so you can’t lock up someone for long because they are delusional unless they are threatening to hurt themselves or others. I think you can do a 3 day hold. Being retired I am not as current with everything that’s happening.

The PACT model has been successful and is a model for the country. We should spend money on creating this program nationally because it includes housing and people feel like part of a community. Clients are encouraged to work with staff on projects and to be independent. A casual observer often can’t tell the difference between staff and clients. In times of crisis such as a natural disaster clients have even taken on the duties of staff and that was a outcome that was totally unexpected. If we directed some of the money we spend on wars and the military what we could achieve would be phenomenal. It’s too bad our priorities are all f**ked up.

[iris lilies]

We closed the psychiatrist hospitals under Reagan because they were hell holes. The plan was to provide services in the communities. But the feds didn’t provide enough money and kept the rest of the savings. Prior to this event you rarely had people on the street. Here the group homes are not announced to the community in advance so people can’t oppose them. Once established there haven’t been enough problems for it to be a big issue.

Also laws changed in all these decades so you can’t lock up someone for long because they are delusional unless they are threatening to hurt themselves or others. I think you can do a 3 day hold. Being retired I am not as current with everything that’s happening.

The PACT model has been successful and is a model for the country. We should spend money on creating this program nationally because it includes housing and people feel like part of a community. Clients are encouraged to work with staff on projects and to be independent. A casual observer often can’t tell the difference between staff and clients. In times of crisis such as a natural disaster clients have even taken on the duties of staff and that was a outcome that was totally unexpected. If we directed some of the money we spend on wars and the military what we could achieve would be phenomenal. It’s too bad our priorities are all f**ked up.

In my neighborhood no one private entity of worth or any government agency will be sneaking in group homes because we have legislation against that. There a limit as to how many unrelated adults can live together in one unit.

Of course you will call us NIMBYS,but I dont care. But what the name callers wont recognize is this legislation covers boarding houses that were rife in my neighborhood. I actually remember more than one when I moved in 30+ years ago. The boarding houses we’re pretty bad if they survived into the 90s. There was a time when boarding houses
were a place for working class people to have a clean and simple room and,depending on who ran the place, they were not a problem in our neighborhood. But that was a long time ago.

Last time we let non-market rate, specialized housing, into our neighborhood it was quite a problem property for about 10 years. It was long time ago and they were subsudized new apartments built for AIDS patients. Our neighborhood patted ourselves on the back for being so compassionate and progressive because we thought residents would be nice gay men.

But we got screwed on that deal because it was a bunch of needle users who lived there. These folks did not stop with their drugging even when appropriately housed in nice units in a lovely neighborhood. Gosh who knew that could happen?? !!?

[gimmethesimplelife]

I agree with this, but the problem is that nobody wants "them" (such "recovery" housing, etc) in their neighborhoods.

"Yes, provide the help! But NOT here!" is what I continually see in my own area.

I can see your point. In my.neighborhood (not going off on a zip code tangent here), historically housing prices have neen markedly lower than the Phoenix metro area as a whole.. This has very much changed in the past two years and I now live in Gentrification Central. But before this, due to the once roughness of the neighborhood and it's corresponding lower housing costs, we had several recovery houses in walking distance of my house. Gotta be.honest - there were very few if any problems at these houses and problematic people who would not follow house rules were evicted after a talk or two.

Seriously.....the worst problems in the neighborhood came from the people cooking meth six houses south of me on my side of the street. Typical druggie drama and police constantly at the property. One time I was walking home from the McDowell Road bus stop and a police helicopter flew by and then shined a light on me - it was at night - I guess they realized I was not who they were looking for. They then flew over the meth house, shined the light there, and started giving commands. Within a minute three cop cars pulled up. I wisely kept walking snd ignoring and made it home.

My point? In my experience, recovery houses are NOT a bad thing. I'd rather live next to one than next to a meth house. To end my story.....the meth house is no longer a meth house and a couple from Indiana bought it and are fixing it up. And since gentrification arrived, the recovery houses have been sold also. I'm guessing they are now located in rougher areas south and west of me. Rob