Ad promoting IL abortion rights to attract businesses

[GeorgeParker]

I believe that was Bill Clinton. I also believe Ronald Reagan would be appalled by your characterization of his beliefs since I vividly recall his often stated belief that abortion should only be used as a form of self defense

You're right. It was Clinton who first used that phrase. I was mistaken.

But as to Reagan's beliefs: As governor of California he signed a very permissive abortion bill. He didn't start pushing a strong anti-abortion stance until later when it became obvious that being anti-abortion was politically advantageous. So I think he might have been closer to "safe, legal, and rare" than you'd like to admit. Certainly he was in favor of safe, legal abortions being available in cases where the life of the mother was in danger, and that's the most obvious example of a "Safe, legal, and rare" abortion. Any interpretation beyond that I'll leave to the analysis presidential scholars.

BTW and just for your enjoyment:

[Alan]

But as to Reagan's beliefs: As governor of California he signed a very permissive abortion bill.

Are you referring to the Therapeutic Abortion Bill which de-criminalized abortion to protect a woman's "physical or mental health"? I recall him saying he regretted that because he didn't anticipate the sheer volume of abortions based upon spurious medical claims. I don't see anything in his actions to dispute his "self defense only" ideology.

[ApatheticNoMore]

Safe, legal, and rare = use birth control.

I don't see why I should respect what either Bill Clinton or Reagan say, I respect neither. But the position itself is reasonable, it basically amounts to saying it's preferable to use birth control and fewer abortions will be needed.

[GeorgeParker]

Are you referring to the Therapeutic Abortion Bill which de-criminalized abortion to protect a woman's "physical or mental health"? I recall him saying he regretted that because he didn't anticipate the sheer volume of abortions based upon spurious medical claims.

You can regret something you created being misused, and still believe it is a good thing when used properly.

The fact I voted for Reagan in 1981 and the fact I'm more or less defending him by suggesting that his actual opinions may have been less extreme than his political statements is as far as I'll go on that issue.

[Alan]

The fact I voted for Reagan in 1981 and the fact I'm more or less defending him by suggesting that his actual opinions may have been less extreme than his political statements is as far as I'll go on that issue.

Yes, I think your work is done, and done fairly well. You started off with a scathing review of Republicans in your state and then mistakenly used Ronald Reagan as an example of how the most conservative President of the modern era was more in line with current progressive sensibilities regarding abortion then those podunk Texas rubes.

When your mistake was pointed out you graciously acknowledged the error but doubled down on the implication that you were actually right while being wrong without bothering to provide any proof to back it up. And then we come to the genius level political sidestep where you decline to go any farther on the issue.

Bravo Mr Parker, Bravo!

[GeorgeParker]

You started off with a scathing review of Republicans in your state and then mistakenly used Ronald Reagan as an example of how the most conservative President of the modern era was more in line with current progressive sensibilities regarding abortion then those podunk Texas rubes.

scathing? rubes? Where did you get that? What I said about the recently passed laws in Texas was factual and nothing I said implied that the people who passed them were rubes, indeed they are sophisticated politicians who know how to keep themselves in office by keeping their base excited.

My opinion of what Reagan's true position was vs his political statements is based on what I've read about him, and It was stated as being my opinion. Was Reagan secretly "in line with current progressive sensibilities regarding abortion"? Certainly not. I don't think anyone at that time was, and I'm not either.

And the reason I see no point in defending my opinion of Reagan is because obviously nothing anyone says in this thread is really going to change anyone's opinion of him and his legacy. The same goes for my opinion of abortion: It should be safe, legal, and rare.

[Alan]

Note to self: Find and install hands clapping emoji.

Note to Mr Parker: Well done sir!

[ApatheticNoMore]

I suspect the real TRUE position of Reagan and Clinton is they both at times had sex with women without birth control without wanting a pregnancy. But I can't prove it, but an actor hmm ... and Clinton what more need be said .... But with Lewinsky, he DID prevent unwanted pregnancy, oral sex is preventing unwanted pregnancy, so he did his part to keep abortion rare if he actually didn't "have sex". One suspects Clinton got more out of that encounter than Lewinsky, but then that's usually the case with intercourse too, and at least she never got pregnant as far as anyone knows.

[iris lilies]

Note to self: Find and install hands clapping emoji.

Note to Mr Parker: Well done sir!

Please install an eye rolling emoji as well! I often need it.

[Tybee]

Please install an eye rolling emoji as well! I often need it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksy8tBzE1yg