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Thread: Your take on shortages/supply chain disruptions?

  1. #61
    Simpleton Alan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jp1 View Post
    Supporting their desire to die for the cause seems an odd electoral strategy but that seems to be where the republican political class is at this point in time.
    You keep saying goofy things like this, I think it's much more likely that some people are a little more independent minded than others, distrustful of authority figures and less likely to believe everything the media reports. Those people are also more likely to be Republicans.

    You keep repeating that Republicans want people to die and inferring that Republican politicians are encouraging their base to take an anti-vax stance, which I think is nonsense. I have never heard a Republican politician of any influence suggest anything other than everyone should be vaccinated. I have heard some suggest that their followers shouldn't believe everything their Democratic counterparts say and questioning the wisdom of their insistence on proclaiming other medications or therapies are not useful, but that's a different thing entirely than what you infer.

    So, in summation I guess what I'm trying to say is I think the disparity in vaccination rates is not political just because more Republicans are unvaccinated than Democrats, it's more that many of the unvaccinated and those who are not all gung ho about governmental mandates share the qualities I outlined earlier and that makes them more likely to be Republicans.
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

  2. #62
    Senior Member Yppej's Avatar
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    Abbott said people should get vaccinated but should not be forced to. This is also my position and I am not a Republican.

  3. #63
    Senior Member rosarugosa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    You keep saying goofy things like this, I think it's much more likely that some people are a little more independent minded than others, distrustful of authority figures and less likely to believe everything the media reports. Those people are also more likely to be Republicans.

    You keep repeating that Republicans want people to die and inferring that Republican politicians are encouraging their base to take an anti-vax stance, which I think is nonsense. I have never heard a Republican politician of any influence suggest anything other than everyone should be vaccinated. I have heard some suggest that their followers shouldn't believe everything their Democratic counterparts say and questioning the wisdom of their insistence on proclaiming other medications or therapies are not useful, but that's a different thing entirely than what you infer.

    So, in summation I guess what I'm trying to say is I think the disparity in vaccination rates is not political just because more Republicans are unvaccinated than Democrats, it's more that many of the unvaccinated and those who are not all gung ho about governmental mandates share the qualities I outlined earlier and that makes them more likely to be Republicans.
    On the other hand, most of the Republicans I know IRL also identify as having strong Christian beliefs. To me, that translates to having strong irrational beliefs and being guided by make-believe and fantasy in their world-views. So I think these are people who would believe in anything, and therefore more gullible rather than less.
    (I realize that you don't fall into this category, Alan, and I also realize that this will be an unpopular view with many, but I also believe that it's true).

  4. #64
    Senior Member rosarugosa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yppej View Post
    Abbott said people should get vaccinated but should not be forced to. This is also my position and I am not a Republican.
    I agree to the extent that nobody should be held down kicking and screaming while being forcibly vaccinated, but I think mandates are a good idea. People are free to choose but not free from the consequences of their choices.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by frugal-one View Post
    Let's hope you don't have to go to the hospital anytime soon.
    I would maintain that hope even in the absence of Covid.

    I think vaccines are a good idea. But I think individual choice is also a good idea, even if some people make poor choices. I also think that where mandates are necessary they should be made at the lowest level possible. Not by presidents trying to revive faltering approval ratings.

  6. #66
    Senior Member Yppej's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rosarugosa View Post
    I agree to the extent that nobody should be held down kicking and screaming while being forcibly vaccinated, but I think mandates are a good idea. People are free to choose but not free from the consequences of their choices.
    Unfortunately children are forced to go to school (until age 16 in our state) and now forced to get a vaccine in order to go to school. If you don't go to school you can be deemed a child in need of services and removed from your home or even if some cases sent to a juvenile detention facility.

    A juvenile can get an abortion, but can't decide whether to be vaccinated.

    In my city I think if the vaccine mandate passes that families will send their children to other districts without the mandate under school choice, to charter schools, to private schools, and homeschool them. (When my son was school age everyone in our neighborhood used one of these options.) The public schools, already struggling, will have to spread fixed costs over smaller numbers of per pupil reimbursements in state moneys. It's not going to be pretty.

    I think lots of officials are not looking at long-term consequences of their decisions, but with a very narrow focus. The decisions are being made by health officials who don't look at economic, fiscal, civil liberties, or other considerations, just their health numbers. They also have a negativity bias and refuse to recognize the great progress made in the state. At my last Board of Health meeting it was presented that deaths were 10 times lower than the same time frame one year before, yet it was all doom and gloom and let's put in restrictions not in place at the height of the pandemic. These public health officials are real zealots outside the public mainstream.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by rosarugosa View Post
    I agree to the extent that nobody should be held down kicking and screaming while being forcibly vaccinated, but I think mandates are a good idea. People are free to choose but not free from the consequences of their choices.
    I agree with this. I also think that if one wants their choices to be respected, they - in turn - have to respect the choices of others. But, inevitably there comes a time when, for example, my choice/freedom will clash/violate with the choice/freedom of another and the question becomes whose freedom comes out on top? (May have worded this poorly, but I think most folks get the gist of what I'm trying to say - lol)
    To give pleasure to a single heart by a single act is better than a thousand heads bowing in prayer." Mahatma Gandhi
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  8. #68
    Senior Member Yppej's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by happystuff View Post
    I agree with this. I also think that if one wants their choices to be respected, they - in turn - have to respect the choices of others. But, inevitably there comes a time when, for example, my choice/freedom will clash/violate with the choice/freedom of another and the question becomes whose freedom comes out on top? (May have worded this poorly, but I think most folks get the gist of what I'm trying to say - lol)
    Right now the freedom of the unvaccinated is coming out on top because we're still having to wear masks to protect them rather than them taking responsibility for their own health.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by LDAHL View Post
    I would maintain that hope even in the absence of Covid.

    I think vaccines are a good idea. But I think individual choice is also a good idea, even if some people make poor choices. I also think that where mandates are necessary they should be made at the lowest level possible. Not by presidents trying to revive faltering approval ratings.
    I stated my view earlier. If we are to get over this pandemic we need to have all on board. It has nothing to do with an approval rating by anyone. It is common sense. How do you propose to end this pandemic? The county I am in has a mask mandate and a high percentage of people vaccinated. The lower numbers are staggering versus in the rest of the state. It is not rocket science to figure out what to do. It is a matter of public health and should not even be equated with freedom. If freedom were the issue we wouldn't have laws for seat belts or other (not as important) issues (individuals vs global populations). Individual poor choice is not a good idea if it affects others adversely. It is ok to have a choice when it just affects you but not when it affects others in this magnitude.

  10. #70
    Senior Member Yppej's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frugal-one View Post
    The county I am in has a mask mandate and a high percentage of people vaccinated. The numbers are staggering in the difference in the rest of the state.
    Let me guess. There is an invisible fence around your county, and all the people wear collars around their necks so they get zapped if they try to leave the county boundaries. That way you are safe from the contagious them.

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