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Thread: Mandates

  1. #1
    Senior Member Yppej's Avatar
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    Mandates

    Do government mandates make you more or less likely to do something?

    I know I plan to cut back on my vaccines because I don't like people being forced to give up their bodily autonomy. I didn't get the vaccine because someone ordered me to, but on a promise of a return to normalcy that turned out to be false in my city. I believe you catch more bees with honey than with vinegar, and the backlash from mandates will be with us for years to come. Already independents are turning away from Biden in polls. Certainly the way covid has been handled has pushed me to the libertarian some would say right side of the spectrum whereas before I felt the Bern.

  2. #2
    Senior Member catherine's Avatar
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    I believe in considering the Common Good when determining whether individual freedoms are appropriate or not.

    I also understand that change in behavior precipitates change in attitude and not the other way around.

    Example: Seat belts. We never had them just 50 years ago. And they weren't mandated until 1986. We now recognize that seat belts save lives, and it is just a normal part of the driving experience to click-it

    Example: Smoking. We used to let people light up all over the place and it was their "rights" we were concerned about. Once we had definitive information that second-hand smoke is dangerous, and that many people were just putting up with the nastiness of smoke-filled, smelly rooms, laws were enacted to protect the innocent non-smokers. Now, we all accept that it is better for everyone to not have to endure and submit to the unhealthy practices of others in public spaces.

    Those are just two examples. I don't know what "honey" you're talking about, but people don't usually change their behavior, whether you're "nice" or not unless they they have been educated to believe it's in the best interest of themselves and/or others to do so, or if they are motivated by pain or desire to do so. I believe it's in the best interest of everyone to take reasonable precautions against COVID, and that's what I do.

    In terms of being disappointed that things aren't back to normal--who can predict the course of a brand new virus? Who can predict "normal"? Who can predict a timeline for "return to normal"? That would take electing God to set policy, not Biden or Baker.
    "Do any human beings ever realize life while they live it--every, every minute?" Emily Webb, Our Town
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  3. #3
    Senior Member Yppej's Avatar
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    In order for behavior to change attitude there needs to be consistency, not a "Do as I say not as I do" approach by public officials.

    It is also odd how protection is being interpreted. It's you must wear a mask around me when we briefly pass each other in the supermarket aisle, but I can have big family gatherings and none of us wear masks because we know each other. It's like people thinking only strangers molest children, when usually it's people they know.

  4. #4
    Senior Member catherine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yppej View Post
    In order for behavior to change attitude there needs to be consistency, not a "Do as I say not as I do" approach by public officials.

    It is also odd how protection is being interpreted. It's you must wear a mask around me when we briefly pass each other in the supermarket aisle, but I can have big family gatherings and none of us wear masks because we know each other. It's like people thinking only strangers molest children, when usually it's people they know.
    If you're in a private space, who's going to enforce it? But the law has the right to mandate in public spaces. When I went to my DD's wedding shower July 2020 in the thick of COVID, the guests there felt as you do, and no one wore masks. I felt very uncomfortable. It was in a closed-in space, and these people came from YOUR state . My husband has some health conditions that compromise his immune system and so I was faced with having to quarantine when I got back home. I accepted it because it was their home, and I chose to go there.

    We take risks all the time. Some are calculated, some are based on emotion. All the government can do is support us in our desire to be free AND safe. It's not easy to maintain that balance. We can only do the best we can.
    "Do any human beings ever realize life while they live it--every, every minute?" Emily Webb, Our Town
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  5. #5
    Senior Member Teacher Terry's Avatar
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    I agree with Catherine and think about both myself and the common good.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Yppej's Avatar
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    You wrote, "If you're in a private space, who's going to enforce it?"

    Well at one point in New York and New Jersey they flew drones to catch people gathering:

    https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020...n-the-u-s.html

    This is a tactic they picked up from the police state in China.

    And yes they can fly drones over private property to spy on backyard gatherings.

    What's to stop them the next time people are doing something they don't like? It's a slippery slope.

  7. #7
    Senior Member jp1's Avatar
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    Back when I was 4 years old I used to get really pissed when I was told to do something that I didn't want to do. I've matured a little since then.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Yppej's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jp1 View Post
    Back when I was 4 years old I used to get really pissed when I was told to do something that I didn't want to do. I've matured a little since then.
    Oh let us applaud you JP1. Maybe you can take over for Bae in the hero position on the boards. You do have some things in common like jetting around during a pandemic. But that's not freedumb is it?

    What I'm curious about is why when you consider me and others who believe as I do to be sociopaths, which means irredeemable people with no conscience, you still keep trying to convince us we're wrong.

  9. #9
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    I would say neither because I don't have a psychological hang up about it.

    But realistically probably more likely to do something, as most things are not hills to die on so to speak, and I don't want legal trouble for No Reason, rebel without a cause. I'm not taking up an undefined freedom (that includes freedom to harm others? or so it seems) as a cause because I don't see that as socially beneficial, or EVEN personally beneficial beyond avoiding minor annoyances.

    But do I recognize the rebellion for spite thing? Sure!!! My boss was saying, please review these videos, it's important to learn new things for our job. And I didn't out of spite. I'm like @#$ I'm cranking out the work at a furious pace, and now I get this, plus that I do watch some videos but work was coming fast at me. Now here's a secret: I LIKE a job that allows you to learn on the job, on the companies dime and time so to speak, I like "hey watch some videos on your work-time" (to the extent I like anything about work). But I got pissy, you can't make me, and I didn't.

    And to be honest there are times my bf has to nag me to wear a seatbelt. Is it a government mandate, well sure you can get ticketed for not wearing a seatbelt, and worse the car keeps beeping at you if you don't! Am I philosophically opposed to seatbelts or even actually particularly rebellious about them? No, just indifferent. Do they save lives? Sure, does anyone even contest that? But my indifference and laziness about seatbelts is actually about as apolitical as anything can get. Do I think about politics then? Of course not.
    If you want something to get done, ask a busy person. If you want them to have a nervous breakdown that is.

  10. #10
    Senior Member bae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yppej View Post
    Oh let us applaud you JP1. Maybe you can take over for Bae in the hero position on the boards. You do have some things in common like jetting around during a pandemic. But that's not freedumb is it?
    Come now.

    You know next to nothing about my trip to the UK, what I did there, who sponsored the expedition, what the medical protocols were, who signed off on it, where I stayed, and so on. To call it "jetting around" is ignorant and trollish foolishness.

    Get some help.

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