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Thread: Rittenhouse Verdict

  1. #211
    Senior Member bae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LDAHL View Post
    So they were the good kind of vigilante and he was the bad kind? It’s just a matter of how you perceive a “threat”?
    People seem to use "vigilante" for its negative connotations.

    In the example I gave up-thread, were my village's business owners and property owners naughty evil vigilantes when they decided to provide security for their businesses when we were being victimized?

    Should they have instead relied upon the very very sparse and overworked law enforcement here to help? Knowing full well that the help would consist simply of filling out a police report for insurance purposes?

    Would it have been OK if, instead of providing security themselves, they had hired guards?

    Is it illegitimate for a citizen to use force in defense of themself, or their property and livelihood?

  2. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by bae View Post
    People seem to use "vigilante" for its negative connotations.

    In the example I gave up-thread, were my village's business owners and property owners naughty evil vigilantes when they decided to provide security for their businesses when we were being victimized?

    Should they have instead relied upon the very very sparse and overworked law enforcement here to help? Knowing full well that the help would consist simply of filling out a police report for insurance purposes?

    Would it have been OK if, instead of providing security themselves, they had hired guards?

    Is it illegitimate for a citizen to use force in defense of themself, or their property and livelihood?
    My answer to all your questions would be “no”, although I would probably draw the line at attacking someone based on my assumption that they were “looking for trouble”.

  3. #213
    Senior Member bae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frugal-one View Post
    [/B]
    IMO anyone walking around with an AR15 is looking for trouble and a threat to those around them considering how many rounds could be expended in a short period of time.
    I bring along a rifle to stay out of trouble, not to look for it. I've had a rifle with me nearly every time I have visited the mainland in the past two decades. Nobody has noticed, no rounds were expended.

    I do rather enjoy the constant breathless incantation of "AR15" to summon up images of evil and destruction, but that's silly. It is essentially the most commonly-sold and owned rifle in the USA and the design has been around for 65 years. It's just the poster-boy for people who don't know any better.

  4. #214
    Senior Member iris lilies's Avatar
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    I’m not much interested in labels including the game of who is a vigilante and who isn’t.

    We’ve had several iterations of a neighborhood night patrol here over past decades. In its early days it was generally considered useful, and many people participated for several years. Then interest dropped off. Leadership disappeared.

    It was started up two times after that and the last time fizzled out fairly quickly. But also, the last time the neighborhood president and at least one person on the board were openly hostile to the idea—Because their brown children might be targeted by these vigilantes.

    hoo-Kay!

    These days I just don’t care if someone calls me a vigilante, a racist, a white supremacist. Whatever.

    When I was on a night patrol, it was a fun time to catch up with the neighbor I was riding with. Our assignment was to drive around the neighborhood for two hours covering all streets and alleys, being eyes and ears to spot anything that might be trouble. And then call the police. My friend Sue and I had some fun times, and they called us “Cagney and Lacey.” Our instructions were to never get out of the car, but we did on a couple of occasions, one time when the cops were there making an arrest. It was really funny experience that I won’t go into it because you had to be there. But relax, it was a drunk white college kid being arrested so no brown people were injured in this incident.

    I will emphasize that neither Sue, nor I, nor anyone I ever rode with in a patrol carried arms. Sometimes we had a dog in the back.

  5. #215
    Senior Member bae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LDAHL View Post
    My answer to all your questions would be “no”, although I would probably draw the line at attacking someone based on my assumption that they were “looking for trouble”.
    I also think the "we're gonna make us a citizen's arrest, boy howdie" approach has some distinct flaws.

  6. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by bae View Post
    I'm curious. When there are armed people on a plane attempting to take it over, are the passengers supposed to call 911 and wait for police response?
    You missed the point entirely.

  7. #217
    Senior Member Rogar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bae View Post
    I also think the "we're gonna make us a citizen's arrest, boy howdie" approach has some distinct flaws.
    And appearently carries a risk of life in prison for a flawed approach.

  8. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by LDAHL View Post
    So they were the good kind of vigilante and he was the bad kind? It’s just a matter of how you perceive a “threat”? In your view, anyone carrying a specific type of rifle must be “looking for trouble”, and therefore a legitimate target?
    Rittenhouse was looking for trouble. 17 yo kid coming across state lines who has another get the gun for him…. an assault weapon that expels multiple rounds not just any gun mind you but one that expends multiple rounds. The plane that flew over PA had people taking matters into their own hands because there was no recourse….ie enough or any (?) police presence. No they were not vigilantes. See definition previously cited.

  9. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by bae View Post
    People seem to use "vigilante" for its negative connotations.

    In the example I gave up-thread, were my village's business owners and property owners naughty evil vigilantes when they decided to provide security for their businesses when we were being victimized?

    Should they have instead relied upon the very very sparse and overworked law enforcement here to help? Knowing full well that the help would consist simply of filling out a police report for insurance purposes?

    Would it have been OK if, instead of providing security themselves, they had hired guards?

    Is it illegitimate for a citizen to use force in defense of themself, or their property and livelihood?
    Yes in bold. Rittenhouse did not know anyone or business.

  10. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by bae View Post
    I bring along a rifle to stay out of trouble, not to look for it. I've had a rifle with me nearly every time I have visited the mainland in the past two decades. Nobody has noticed, no rounds were expended.

    I do rather enjoy the constant breathless incantation of "AR15" to summon up images of evil and destruction, but that's silly. It is essentially the most commonly-sold and owned rifle in the USA and the design has been around for 65 years. It's just the poster-boy for people who don't know any better.
    BS… who needs a gun that shoots that many rounds while attending a protest? Rittenhouse was making a statement by carrying that weapon. It was not obvious his intent.

    You bringing a weapon where nobody noticed is different than this situation.

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