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Thread: Bidenís Georgia Speech

  1. #11
    Senior Member bae's Avatar
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    Here in my state, in the recent redistricting efforts, I have seen the Democratic Party redrawing lines to marginalize some communities, and make some seats even safer for Democrat candidates. Even locally in a previous precinct rearrangement, the local party moved lines to keep certain individuals in or out of certain precincts.

    I observed similar behaviour when I lived in California.

    Recent efforts across the nation by the Republicans seem pretty over-the-top.

    A pox on all their houses.

  2. #12
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    I mean maybe someone somewhere suggests that Dems don't do it because of their superior moral character or something but that's really not the argument.

    It's not an argument about virtuous politicians. The argument is Republicans are doing it in a way that actually affects national elections and unfairly tilts the balance of state and federal power (against what the majority in their state want). And so Dems and what they would do if they had that power (but they don't) are really beside the point. And that's just redistricting. Voter suppression would be something it would be hard to put on the Dems at all.

    I will accept that neither party likes 3rd parties much and will try to disenfranchise them, but also the way the system is setup (basically not proportional representations and first past the post voting) makes 3rd parties pretty unviable regardless of the machinations of Dems and Republicans, they are largely disenfranchised by the nature of the system from the get go.
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  3. #13
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    I see Sinema spoke in support of the filibuster today. I assume this means the left can stop debating whether to say ďtransformativeĒ or ďtransformationalĒ, unless they manage a major surprise in the midterms.

  4. #14
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    It's interesting to see how narratives are used regarding all things political these days. Seeing President Biden talk about modern day Jim Crow and joining all Congressional Democrats as they go on and on about the need for a new Voting Rights Law, as if those rights were in some sort of jeapordy, is nothing more than advancing a narrative not backed up by facts in order to rile the vast majority of voters who could care less about reality.

    We see it every day as Democrats demonize Republicans for not backing initiatives such as the Build Back Better Plan when those same Democrats have no idea what is even in the legislation. When our Democratic leaders support things such as doing away with the Senate Filibuster in order to advance un-needed legislation all the while knowing that they'll be all in on Filibuster once they lose their slim majority. The only thing that matters is the narrative they advance to their base at any given moment.

    The same applies to Gerrymandering. Every state legislature, regardless of party makeup, does it but you'd never know that if you rely on mainstream media or social media posts. Many legislative districts must be re-districted after each census in order to account for changing population counts. Every state legislature must do it from time to time but we only hear about it when Republicans use it to their advantage and are accused of gerrymandering, I can't recall ever hearing about Democrat legislatures using it to their advantage as well, and even when it may come up it's only referred to as re-districting. Informed people know better.

    I really wish we lived in a more rational and honest world.
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by LDAHL View Post
    Last year our Democratic Governor presented alternative districts his “People’s Maps Commission” drew up, but he lost a lot of support among his own party members. They felt his alternative violated the Voting Rights Act by diluting minority representation.

    Wisconsin is sort of an extreme case of what we see in the US, with very concentrated Democratic support in 2 of the 72 counties and more diffuse GOP support in the rest of the state. It’s one reason the state gave Obama a victory in one term and Trump the next. The politics can be squirrelly here, but I don’t see a fascist putsch anytime soon.
    You obviously are checking different sites or listening to different pundits. Robin Vos and Ron Johnson are 2 that does to mind that definitely need to be out of office!!

    Republicans in WI has abused the system big time. Last election was so egregious, with the big moron running, that record numbers came out to vote. Now talk by Republicans is to only have one voting place in Milwaukee… ludicrous!!

  6. #16
    Senior Member Rogar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LDAHL View Post
    I see Sinema spoke in support of the filibuster today. I assume this means the left can stop debating whether to say “transformative” or “transformational”, unless they manage a major surprise in the midterms.
    I'm not certain if I follow your terminology, but it's possible we can thank politicians like Sinema just like we can thank Mitch for opposing Trump's move to end the filibuster. Right now, with the country so divided it seems to me like a rational way to encourage the two parties or opposing or ideas to work together. I could see where ending the filibuster could backfire if we see the return of the son of Trump or similar in the future. At least that's my basic understanding of things.

    EDIT to add: Here in my state I get a mail in ballot for every election. I don't have to ask, or show a new ID, or be around Covid people, or go to a polling station in the snow or during work. I don't know of any instance where this system has proven to be an opportunity for fraud and it's been that way for years. I have opinions on our country's future I would like to express, and it seems to me like that or something similar, is the way it should work. So I don't understand all the discussion about voter restrictions when it could be so easy to have a similar system.

  7. #17
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    Oh Wisconsin is one of the most obvious examples of stuff being totally rigged for Republicans now (yea I'd be constantly annoyed by it if I lived there, I think it's really a very good thing for my mental health I don't).

    This is stuff that has gone on in WI

    -In 2016 Republicans won about 161,000 more votes than Democrats in assembly races statewide, giving them 64 of the state’s 99 seats — even though that margin represented only about 52 percent of the votes cast. In 2018, Democrats did far better, winning 53 percent of assembly votes cast statewide and more than 200,000 more votes on net. The result? Republicans won 63 of the state’s 99 assembly seats.
    -This can be seen in seeing how the WI legislature shifts over time, it used to go back and forth fairly regularly, along with governorship, as it would in a purplish state, now only the governorship does. But that's just because the state is all Republican now? Only it isn't, see above, see ability of a Dem governor to get elected. Also the presidential vote goes back and forth you don't see that in a solid red or blue state.
    - Legislature stripped Dem governor of power when elected (and the governor is the only one truly subjected to majority vote at all as the rest is radically gerrymandered - see above)
    - In 2020 radically gerrymandered legislature forced in person voting in a pandemic (remember there were no vaccines then, so never mind "vaccines work", there were none)
    - In addition polling places in in Milwaukee were radically reduced, from 180 until 5

    I've delved into this BECAUSE Wisconsin is kind of a textbook example of things going radically wrong, where one Republican win is transformed into elections will not count from now on.
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  8. #18
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    There is a rational and a hysterical interpretation of those numbers. On the rational side, while recognizing gerrymandering exists (although not at democracy-threatening levels) varying levels of party support in various geographic areas means that there will always be a difference between the distribution of total votes cast and assembly seats won in any given election.

    The Milwaukee Election Commission made the decision to reduce the number of polling sites from 180 to 5 in 2020, not a cabal of GOP operatives. This is not a city dominated by Republicans.

    There was a Covid panic ongoing at the time. The Governor tried unsuccessfully to delay some elections. Given that Covid is still a factor, that would have been a mistake.

    Given Trumpís ridiculous antics, the Democrats had the chance to present themselves as the reasonable, fact-based party. They elected not to. Instead they are fighting BS with BS of their own.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by LDAHL View Post
    There is a rational and a hysterical interpretation of those numbers. On the rational side, while recognizing gerrymandering exists (although not at democracy-threatening levels) varying levels of party support in various geographic areas means that there will always be a difference between the distribution of total votes cast and assembly seats won in any given election.

    The Milwaukee Election Commission made the decision to reduce the number of polling sites from 180 to 5 in 2020, not a cabal of GOP operatives. This is not a city dominated by Republicans.

    Given Trump’s ridiculous antics, the Democrats had the chance to present themselves as the reasonable, fact-based party. They elected not to.
    Of course this is a threat to our democracy! The Republicans are not only trying to limit polling places but also who counts the votes. Milwaukee has many black voters who historically have voted for dems so it is to the advantage of republicans to make to difficult (if not impossible) for them to vote… i.e. Put the single polling location not on a bus route!

    The state is in control by republicans and is tying the hands of the democratic governor….even curtailing/changing the rules that republicans enjoyed while they were in the governor’s seat.

    I have always been an Independent. Sadly, I voted for Walker which started the decline of civility in the state IMO….a preamble (if you will) to the destruction of the republican party.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by frugal-one View Post
    Of course this is a threat to our democracy! The Republicans are not only trying to limit polling places but also who counts the votes. Milwaukee has many black voters who historically have voted for dems so it is to the advantage of republicans to make to difficult (if not impossible) for them to voteÖ i.e. Put the single polling location not on a bus route!

    The state is in control by republicans and is tying the hands of the democratic governorÖ.even curtailing/changing the rules that republicans enjoyed while they were in the governorís seat.

    I have always been an Independent. Sadly, I voted for Walker which started the decline of civility in the state IMOÖ.a preamble (if you will) to the destruction of the republican party.
    The number and location of polling places in the City of Milwaukee isnít determined by dastardly Republicans at the state level. It is determined at the local level by the democracy-loving Democrats who have ruled that city for generations.

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