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Thread: Roe v Wade

  1. #31
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bae View Post
    Climate change
    Covid
    Inflation
    Housing availability problems
    Insurrection in the Capitol, and a continuing effort to press the point
    Attacks on voting rights, especially targeted at "those people"
    Jingoism
    Attacks on women's rights, LGBTQ rights
    Decaying infrastructure - bridges, roads, ports, ...
    A government more focused on Twitter/TikTok soundbites than governance
    Internet-enabled viral transmission of fringe wacky beliefs
    WWIII in Europe
    Autocrats/plutocrats joining hands worldwide
    Growing concentration of wealth at the top

    Ah, well, it's time to go work in the garden.

    ...
    Interesting times, indeed.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by jp1 View Post
    Just as most people would say that interstate commerce doesn’t include growing wheat and feeding it to your own livestock. But as bae noted according to the Supreme Court that is, in fact, commerce.
    An activity does not need to have a direct effect on interstate commerce to fall within the commerce power, as long as the effect is substantial and economic.…. disgustingly You may be right?

  3. #33
    Senior Member jp1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frugal-one View Post
    An activity does not need to have a direct effect on interstate commerce to fall within the commerce power, as long as the effect is substantial and economic.…. disgustingly You may be right?
    Personally I think the decision was absurd and just shows that judges can use whatever jiggery pokery they want to come to the decision they desire. Especially if they are the supreme court and no one is allowed to question the decision in any meaningful way.

    On this note I expect at some point in the next few years the absurd judgement that osha can't have a vaccine requirement because people can catch covid outside of work will be used to eviscerate all of OSHA's safety rules. As one example, people lift heavy items outside of work so why should their be limitations and other safety requirements around that for people on the job? And on and on and on.

  4. #34
    Senior Member Teacher Terry's Avatar
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    As my mom used to say if men got pregnant abortions would be a god given right. Taking away women’s right to control their bodies disgusts me. It will of course hurt poor women, women will die trying to abort and more kids will be abused. We unfortunately are returning to the 1950’s.

  5. #35
    Senior Member Tradd's Avatar
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    One difference about today is that there are multiple forms of effective birth control.

    Very odd, but Groot, the Chicago mayor, seems to be angling to promote abortion tourism, for lack of a better description

  6. #36
    Senior Member bae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tradd View Post
    One difference about today is that there are multiple forms of effective birth control.
    Well, my daughter exists today because of a failure of multiple layers of birth control. So there's that.

    And I suspect women still get raped, so there's that. Someone told me yesterday that in many states rapists get parental rights if a child results, which I thought didn't sound at all possible, until I did a little digging. Ick.

  7. #37
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    DD is wondering about the future of IVF embryo storage and procedures - especially in a state like Texas where she lives. Somehow I think, half the burden and hardship of unwanted pregnancy choices has to shift to the involved males. For some odd reason when abortion cons are discussed, I always think about the end result of so many unwanted humans being brought into the world.

  8. #38
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    I think a lot of people would agree abortion should be available for women because birth control sometimes fails, not because it usually does, so it's often somewhat theoretical, but because it's not impossible. So people who find themselves in that situation ... they might ultimately choose to have the kid, but then again they might not, afterall they were using birth control for a reason!!! Because they didn't want a(nother) kid! 3rd trimester, and so on, at a certain point it's not completely crazy to expect people to have decided already what to do with a pregnancy, but that's probably mostly health of the mother or kid anyway at that point, and of course health of the mother matters more.

    I'm the result of failed birth control, but the pill these days is better than it was then, they've worked out a lot of the bugs, and there are a few more options as well. Life is funny, I heard so much as a kid about how "we never should have had kids", then to only find out later I was "an accident" anyway (!!!) rather than some result of bad decision making or something (but no I don't think abortion was ever considered and my parents were several years into marriage). An even greater shock was finding out from some of his old coworkers at my dad's funeral that he had been so proud of his kids (when we were kids). He was? *in shock* Greatest man I never knew ... though I knew him like my own breath.
    Trees don't grow on money

  9. #39
    Senior Member bae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkytoe View Post
    DD is wondering about the future of IVF embryo storage and procedures -...
    Don't those fertilized embryos in storage right now have a right to be born?

  10. #40
    Senior Member iris lilies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bae View Post
    Don't those fertilized embryos in storage right now have a right to be born?

    I know! The whole world of reproductive ethics is so much bigger than the narrow issue all abortion arguments cover.

    when you start looking into all the permutations of unfertilized eggs, fertilized eggs, egg storage, ownership of eggs, rights of eggs, implantation of fertilized eggs, ownership of the product of implantation, damaged eggs, damaged fertilized eggs and fetuses and rights/ responsibilities, etc. etc. etc.…

    … many complex issues arise. The medical ethics world knows about these, but it seems like those discussions NEVER hit mainstream social media and so are never discussed in any venue I frequent.

    I searched out a book from a physician/ethicists about these reproductive issues and honestly it was so dense I skimmed a bit of it and sent it back to it’s home library. I just couldn’t grok it.

    Another group that looks into this with a fine detail I assume would be the old men in skirts at the Vatican. I’m sure their medical ethicists are delving into these issues.

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