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Thread: Roe vs. Wade.....

  1. #321
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    "Abortion is allowed at any gestational development by these states: Vermont, New Mexico, Colorado, Oregon."

    That's why I mentioned the 171 post 5 months' abortions one year in Oregon. It wasn't broken down, but I presume all of these operations were vetted and performed by doctors in accordance with medical standards, and I'm fine with that.

  2. #322
    Simpleton Alan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jp1 View Post
    Third trimester abortions don't happen for fun anywhere near as often as people like Alan like to fantasize/fear that they do.
    How many babies should we allow to be terminated on an annual basis before we begin to think about them as worthy of life?

    Quote Originally Posted by jp1 View Post
    Trusting them to make decisions about who should or should not have an abortion is just a really really ****ing bad idea. It will result in dead people. But since they are only women I suppose to some people they don’t matter.
    I think giving legal protection to unborn babies is a really good ****ing idea. Some of the ones you believe undeserving of those protections would grow up to be women.
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

  3. #323
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    I don't believe random collections of human cells are particularly "worthy of life"--certainly not more so than all the actual, existing humans who could use our help--like maybe asylum-seekers at our southern border.

  4. #324
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    I continue to believe that

  5. #325
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    If I had to set a time (although plenty problematic in reality), I would set it at maybe half way through the pregnancy, 4 or 5 months. I don't care about trimesters. I don't see why we should put so much value on fetuses especially if they are female when they will just grow up to live in a country that will hate them as women anyway.
    Trees don't grow on money

  6. #326
    Senior Member iris lilies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaneV2.0 View Post
    I don't believe random collections of human cells are particularly "worthy of life"--certainly not more so than all the actual, existing humans who could use our help--like maybe asylum-seekers at our southern border.
    But fetuses that are 8 Months 21 days are hardly random collection of human cells.Do you really think they are?

    You keep making the easy argument, where most American agree with you that the randoms cells aren't worth protection until 12 weeks. After that, opinion diverges pretty widely.* I would not call a 24 week old fetus a “ collection of random cells” because I don't need to objectify that being in order to justify my preference that parents decide on the abortion time and conditions.

    You can use whatever label you like, I know people are far more married to labels than I am. I dont mind calling the 24 week old fetus a “baby.” Just like I don’t need to objectify the cow I eat, a smart sentient being that sacrificed his life for my ease of life. Both are sad situations.

    * Most all of Europe protects a fetus after 12 weeks of age. Note specifically those Scandinavian countries we love to hold up as beacons of progessiveness —-ALL set their abortions limits WELL BELOW 24 weeks of viability.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abor...es_per_country

  7. #327
    Simpleton Alan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaneV2.0 View Post
    I don't believe random collections of human cells are particularly "worthy of life"--certainly not more so than all the actual, existing humans who could use our help...
    I can agree with that, up to a point, the problem is I don't know where that point might be. Some think it should be when a distinctive heartbeat develops, usually around 6 weeks. Others, including most of the civilized world believe it's on the early side of viability, around 12 to 15 weeks for legal purposes.

    I'm always amazed at the sheer number of people in this country who refuse to acknowledge the humanity of an unborn child simply for ideological purposes. You can usually pick them out when they accuse anyone considering an unborn baby to be worthy of life as someone who hates women.
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

  8. #328
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    Note specifically those Scandinavian countries we love to hold up as beacons of progessiveness —-ALL set their abortions limits WELL BELOW 24 weeks of viability.
    I think it probably gets into uncomparable things. Like far more financial help for having a baby including as a single mother, and far more access to healthcare for abortion early on and to birth control. People might claim that Americans have as much access to birth control as Europeans, but it's easily disproven by the birth control American's choose. Americans are more likely to use things like the pill, while Europeans choose far superior methods like IUDs as they aren't limited by cost and access factors the way Americans are. Yes the ACA has helped some. I mean Scandinavia has a low birth rate right? So they are clearly doing something very right in terms of preventing pregnancies or at least proving ready access to early abortion.
    Trees don't grow on money

  9. #329
    Senior Member jp1's Avatar
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    I guess the part that I donít understand is that we have people all in a panic over late term abortions even though they are quite rare and in most cases happen because of medical issues or lack of access to abortion services earlier in the pregnancy but then we just shrug our shoulders at actual real children getting gunned down in schools. What a strange concept of being pro life some people have.

  10. #330
    Senior Member JaneV2.0's Avatar
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    I still don't understand why someone's unwanted embryo or fetus is anyone's business other than that of the woman who is carrying it And I never will.

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