American Independence Day

[Mrs-M]

Redfox. The speech Frederick Douglass delivered has officially (as of today) become my favourite.

[Alan]

This day has always confounded me. On the one hand, I am a strong advocate of the experiment called democracy, having been raised by a Constitutional lawyer and a social justice advocate. I've spent much of my adult life working and agitating for democratic principles to be applied to those most marginalized - women, poor people, and people of color. On the other hand, I live in a country that was built upon the backs of Indigenous people and slaves, as well as actively suppressing the self-determination of marginalized people in this country as well as in other countries. I am not called to celebrate this.

This is a powerful summation:
http://www.historyplace.com/speeches/douglass.htm

Yes, that is an inspirational speech, although it criticizes not a nation, but rather the actions and prejudices of it's citizens. If you're interested in Mr Douglass' thoughts on this country and it's constitution, you might enjoy this speech given eight years later. http://teachingamericanhistory.org/l...?document=1128 Some members may recognize it as I've posted a link to it previously.

If you want to forever judge a nation for the past abuses of it's citizens, if you judge the present by the past, you'll be forever at the mercy of something you cannont change.

[redfox]

Yes, that is an inspirational speech, although it criticizes not a nation, but rather the actions and prejudices of it's citizens... If you want to forever judge a nation for the past abuses of it's citizens, if you judge the present by the past, you'll be forever at the mercy of something you cannont change.

I don't see these as separable - for a nation is an aggregate of its citizens actions & prejudices; those one prefers as well as those one does not. Laws & policies codify those prejudices, many of which we've hotly debated in these postings.

We're a unique species that has the capacity for not merely learning from our experiences, but also to reflect upon them and engage in deliberative and epistemological analyses of it all; in order to make determined choices about what's next. As a nation, we have done this well in many areas - not so well in many too - and the judging of the nation by its past is critical to changing what one does not wish to continue. Just as each of us does in our private lives. Judging not as sentence, but as worthy reflection and necessary to understanding as we aspire to the free republic for which we blow things up today.

Ok, a cold beer has my name on it.

¡Adiós, más tarde... !

[Alan]

I don't see these as separable - for a nation is an aggregate of its citizens actions & prejudices.

But they are. The nation was designed to a higher standard.

I am not called to celebrate this.

Perhaps we could celebrate how far our citizens actions and prejudices have come towards meeting the ideals the country was founded upon, if not the principles themselves?

[redfox]

Perhaps you could celebrate how far our citizens actions and prejudices have come towards meeting the ideals the country was founded upon?

Yep, that's exactly what I do at every demonstration march I attend! Thank you for looking for something I can celebrate - that's quite kind of you.

Here is what my niece, who is living in Rome posted:
"I wish you all a happy we-kicked-the-Brits'-butts-at-the-expense-of-the-Native-Americans-and-with-the-help-of-the-French Day! I'm mentally sticking my tongue out at all the Brits I see!"

Onward!

PS - http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2..._OPART.html?hp

[Yppej]

Damn! Talk about self-hatred. Canada sends troops to other countries too, has mistreated its Native population too, etc. but I didn't see any comments like this on the Happy Canada Day post. No country is perfect like no marriage is perfect. I would hope people would see some merit in trying to love the one you're with.

[Mrs-M]

Originally posted by Yppej.
Damn! Talk about self-hatred. Canada sends troops to other countries too, has mistreated its Native population too, etc. but I didn't see any comments like this on the Happy Canada Day post.

I believe certain events (important events) at times, like this one, have a tendency to encourage/trigger reverberations and reactions. Freedom of speech is a powerful and important thing and although not everything that is, or will be said, will be embraced or accepted by everyone, I believe there's still a place for any/all interjection and voice, regardless of timing or occasion.