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Thread: Occupy Wall Street PROTESTERS Not Letting Up - Nationwide

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catwoman View Post
    Mountainlaurel, I agree that people want to work and well-paying jobs aren't out there. Over-regulation, over-taxation and people (corps. and small employers) holding on to their money right now rather than hiring and innovating are what is causing the jobs scarcity. Fear of Obama's policies as described in previous sentence are what is choking the economy. Obamacare is killing R & D - overtaxation is killing R & D which is sending millions of jobs overseas...

    They may be mad about this but their anger is mis-directed.

    I can not be counted among the rich. I can guarantee you if a son or daughter of mine were to spend an ounce of their time in this sort of time-wasting, ridiculous endeavor - I would be ashamed. We get up, we work, we identify problems, we fix them. The only time in our history I would have ever joined a protest and been proud to be part of one was the work of MLK jr. That was a worthy cause.l

    This is spoiled brats wanting the govt. to feed them and wipe their bottoms.

    1. Obama is NOT the cause of the jobs crisis. You really are brainwashed. Stop watching Fox News.
    2. Obamacare has NOTHING to do with R & D. That is just ridiculous on its face. Obamacare is only health insurance reform. What the hell does that have to do with R & D?
    3. Their anger is directed at the economic oligarchy in this country. I would say your anger at Obama and the left wing is mis-directed.
    4. MLK Jr. was a proponent of economic justice as well as racial equality. He'd be a OWS supporter.
    5. Spoiled brats? That's nasty. It is their right to protest whatever they want to protest. They are not asking for welfare or government handouts. They are asking for government to start representing THEIR interests as the vast majority of the population.

    I do not understand why you insist on aligning yourself with the interests of the ultra elite in this country. Why are you supporting policies that favor them over your own interests?

  2. #102
    Senior Member Catwoman's Avatar
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    Rosebud, we must be looking at different universes....Obama IS the cause of the jobs crisis. Everybody with money is afraid to let go of it due to his policies, everybody is suffering as a result. I can't help but find your comment about being brainwashed and aligning myself with ultra elites, and oh yes, "oligarchy" humorous...You are the one spouting the lefty pablum you have all been spoon fed. No worries, this will all be over soon, the taxpayers will pay for the extra police protection, pay for cleaning up the mess these folks have left while their protests will have accomplished nothing. Oh well, maybe some protestors were entertained for a bit. That's all, its really nothing. Desperate straws Pelosi and Obama are grasping at to try and create a crisis...They need a good crisis right now to deflect from their complete incompetence

  3. #103
    Senior Member peggy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catwoman View Post
    Rosebud, we must be looking at different universes....Obama IS the cause of the jobs crisis. Everybody with money is afraid to let go of it due to his policies, everybody is suffering as a result. I can't help but find your comment about being brainwashed and aligning myself with ultra elites, and oh yes, "oligarchy" humorous...You are the one spouting the lefty pablum you have all been spoon fed. No worries, this will all be over soon, the taxpayers will pay for the extra police protection, pay for cleaning up the mess these folks have left while their protests will have accomplished nothing. Oh well, maybe some protestors were entertained for a bit. That's all, its really nothing. Desperate straws Pelosi and Obama are grasping at to try and create a crisis...They need a good crisis right now to deflect from their complete incompetence
    What policies would that be? Exactly which policies of Obama's have created this job problem?

  4. #104
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    I'm looking forward to reading the list of policies of Obama's that created this job problem as well as HOW they created it. I would particularly like to see the list of the laws (by title and number if possible) and/or polices (via policy statements from the white house or via other governmental offices), and evidence of HOW those specific laws or policies created the job crisis in 3 years.

  5. #105
    Low Tech grunt iris lily's Avatar
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    The overall environment of uncertainty in business expenses is one thing that is preventing businesses from expanding and hiring.

    ObamaCare dictates some additional expenses for employers. The recent hearings centered on some of those:

    http://republicans.energycommerce.ho...0211/Pitts.pdf

    From my quick skim it seems that the additional burden for businesses are just getting started with:

    * higher prices as insurance companies are driven out of business --fewer service providers

    * plans that will lose their grandfathered status

    * essential minimum coverage that employers will be required to meet

    and others coming...

  6. #106
    Senior Member Zigzagman's Avatar
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    It appears that there are efforts to associate the OWS movement with the Dems - not the case, but if the GOP tries and push that idea it will only be to their detriment. People really did want hope and change and it didn't happen. Most people I know have not given up but have become even more frustrated with the continuing corporate control of our government.

    The lines are being drawn quite clearly these days - attacks on SS and Medicare, eliminating almost all environmental protection, crony capitalism, greed is not only good but viewed as American Exceptionalism. I don't think that is want most of "the people" in this nation had in mind and the right is having a very hard time using their typical wedge issues (gays, guns, god) to distract that fact these days and I don't think those tired old conservative ideas will work much longer, especially with the youth.

    Peace

  7. #107
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    Irislily,

    that statement (linked) isn't evidence of how obama's policies or laws have "created this job situation."

    first, the primary statement asserts a May 2011 survey that states that the majority of companies may change their insuring processes due to PPACA (meaning, increase copay/premiums OR give up the grandfathered insurance).

    this statement is about what they may do -- not what they have done or are forced to do or have been forced to do or whatever. it's a conjecture of what they *may* do as of May 2011.

    because there is no evidence that any company has done any changing in regards to the insurance that they provide in the statement, there is no evidence that their bottom line has been affected, and likewise no evidence that it has caused companies to have to lay off employees or be unable to hire more employees.

    It is only conjecture that the law *may* negatively impact their bottom lines and therefore *may* continue to impact the job situation (or not improve it), but this is still just conjecture, not facts.

    Thus, the statement is not evidence that Obama's policy/laws have "Created this job situation."

    Second, I might point out that "this job situation" has been happening for many years. PPACA came into effect in March 2011.

    According to this NYT article from Feb 5, 2010, it is reported that "Jobless Rate Falls to 9.7%, Giving Hope that The Worst is Over." The current unemployment rate (September 2011) is 9.1% (i grant, these rates are not the entire picture -- as per prior posts).

    It seems pretty clear that the PPACA has not positively or negatively impacted the job market at this point, first because the unemployment rate was HIGHER before it became law and, since then, has been slightly (but steadily) decreasing -- which some might try to argue that it could be "because" but obviously correlation and causation are two different things -- and second, because there doesn't seem to be any clear evidence that companies have acted one way or another regarding insurance policies and how it affects their bottom line -- at least as far as we know as of May 2011 (by your link).

    So, no, it isn't evidence to support the claim.

    Feel free to keep it coming. it's interesting to read this stuff.

  8. #108
    Senior Member HKPassey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catwoman View Post
    The private property of citizens should be respected. This is all about redistribution of wealth...which again leads me to say the private property of citizens should be respected.
    Ok. But... cheating people out of their homes and life savings by means of fraudulent mortgages and deceptive fine print is also a form of redistribution of wealth, a particularly viscious one. For millions of us who didn't have much to begin with, all our wealth has already been redistributed to multinational megabanks. Many are simply asking to have their private property rights respected as well, rather than fraudulently stripped away by obscenely wealthy institutions.

  9. #109
    Low Tech grunt iris lily's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoebird View Post
    Irislily,

    that statement (linked) isn't evidence of how obama's policies or laws have "created this job situation."

    first, the primary statement asserts a May 2011 survey that states that the majority of companies may change their insuring processes due to PPACA (meaning, increase copay/premiums OR give up the grandfathered insurance).

    this statement is about what they may do -- not what they have done or are forced to do or have been forced to do or whatever. it's a conjecture of what they *may* do as of May 2011.
    oh agreed, it's conjecture because the future is uncertain, my premise.

    Do you think uncertainty is good for the present business climate?

  10. #110
    Senior Member HKPassey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by creaker View Post
    So we should be more like China?

    There are a lot of countries where a few have pretty much everything and the rest have pretty much nothing - capitalism doesn't seem to work very well in those places, at least not for what we expect capitalism to do in this country.
    Yup, we call those places "banana republics." What is concerning many experts is the direction the US is taking, very rapidly becoming more unequal than many traditional "banana republics" and falling far behind some of the countries of Europe that used to be behind us.
    http://img.slate.com/media/3/100914_...Divergence.pdf

    The US is now "more unequal than Guyana, Nicaragua, and Venezuela, and roughly on par with Uruguay, Argentina, and Ecuador." Your chances of rising from the bottom to any degree of comfort in the US is now less than in France, Germany, Sweden, Denmark, or Spain. The concentration of wealth is more unequal now than at any time since the end of the age of the Robber Barons, and that simply can't be sustained.

    And FYI, US citizens and corporations currently pay the lowest tax burden since 1958, making "over-taxed" just another ideological sound bite.

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