Do you pray?

[Jemima]

I pray often - morning prayers, table grace, and just plain old talking to God throughout the day. I often give thanks. Hattie and Stella really said it all.

[catherine]

No.

If there isn't a Supreme Being, you are wasting your breath.

And if there is a Supreme Being, we have either been endowed with free will, or not.

If we have free will, then any sort of Supreme Being doesn't interfere in the day to day affairs of the universe, so there would be no point to prayer.

If we don't have free will, then similarly, there isn't a point to prayer, you are just a puppet to destiny.

Your response, bae, assumes that we who pray are looking to change something external, which is not the case. I can assure you, I do not feel I am "wasting my breath," nor am I abdicating my free will in any way.

I'm afraid it would be difficult to explain the effects of prayer to someone who does not believe in its benefits--kind of like trying to describe color to a person who was blind from birth.

But I know a lot of people feel the way you do.

[flowerseverywhere]

I do not pray. I don't believe in any supreme being.

It took a long time for me to go from a strict Roman Catholic upbringing to atheist. The journey included a lot of reading and reflection. I just cannot sort out in my head all of the oppression and hate that has come from religious beliefs. Any reading of history includes people believing that their god somehow is better or more true than another persons and gives them reason to commit horrific crimes of hate. I cannot justify the sexual abuse that was hidden and excused by the Roman Catholic church. Or the Protestant-Catholic battles in Ireland or the Palestine-Israeli war or the oppression of women in the middle east or the televangelists that take good peoples money for their own profit. All in the name of god. It honestly disgusts me.

[Dharma Bum]

assumes that we who pray are looking to change something external

If the change you seek is internal, there are ways to do that, meditation or reflection, that don't require a real or imaginary recipient or participant. If you want to access a supernatural vending machine, prayer would be your path. Among prayer, meditation, or reflection, it would seem to be a valid distinction that prayer at least assumes there is something external to which you can pray, even if the change is only internal.

[Stella]

Dharma bum, just because there are ways of making internal changes that don't involve an external force doesn't mean that prayer is useless or inferior. Talking things out with a good friend, for example, is a way of working on internal changes that involves a second party, but it's not "accessing a vending machine" it's developing a relationship and getting perspective you yourself may not have.

[Dharma Bum]

I'm sure different things work for different people and that's great. Just trying to be a bit more precise with the nomenclature. As with your example, talking with a friend is one thing, talking with an imaginary friend is another. With your friend, it's properly considered talking and a relationship. But as for talking with an imaginary friend, I'd say it is something different regardless of the format you use in your head as it is in reality a solitary activity.

[catherine]

If the change you seek is internal, there are ways to do that, meditation or reflection, that don't require a real or imaginary recipient or participant. If you want to access a supernatural vending machine, prayer would be your path. Among prayer, meditation, or reflection, it would seem to be a valid distinction that prayer at least assumes there is something external to which you can pray, even if the change is only internal.

I see what you're saying. There are many people who might pray to that supernatural vending machine, or at least to an image of Old Guy/Long Beard/Sitting On A Cloud. But not all of us do. Some of us are praying to the God Within. What about centering prayer, or contemplative prayer? Those types of praying are definitely inward journeys.

If we are inseparable from the Divine Force (or God, or Higher Power, or whatever you want to call "it") because of our Oneness of Being, praying to that Force is an inside job, IMHO.

[Heidi]

I pray all the time. I especially enjoy praying as I work. Sometimes I just talk to God, sometimes I just listen, sometimes I pray the rosary, sometimes I pray another memorized prayer (like our table grace, for example), sometimes I do an examination of conscience, sometimes I listen to a prayer podcast. The Pray as You Go podcast is my favourite. I try to offer up my work in love. I have as many ways of praying as I have reasons to pray.

I've said this before, but when things have gotten hard and I've least understood why things were the way they were (victim of violent crime, miscarriages, suicide attempts, etc.) prayer has been the most beneficial. At least I wasn't alone in my pain and my brokenness. It's amazing how much that can mean in those situations.

Thank you, Stella, for this beautiful post. You are a beautiful inspirition.

[Dharma Bum]

Did God save my daughter's life? - sure did. .

I'm glad you're daughter is ok but this kind of thinking is so fraught with so many fallacies it would hijack this thread too much to address them.

So here's your prayer koan for the the day: why doesn't god ever cure amputees?

[iris lily]

I mutter constantly to myself. Does that count? I am my own higher being?