So goes Wisconsin - So goes America?

[creaker]

and you know, a big reason for these companies moving was to keep their costs as low as possible. Everyone wants to buy the cheapest stuff at walmart produced by slave labor yet get paid a good wage. That equation doesn't add up.

+1

[ApatheticNoMore]

The WI budget may be balanced now (no way I accept those figures at face value since so much chicanery goes into budgets, half the time they are just playing games with the numbers!). But even if so, the true test is what the quality of education in WI is at least a decade, maybe two down the line. WI wants to run radical experiments (and breaking an existing system for radical conservative OR radical leftist reasons is radical) and so I guess they will (the states or localities if anywhere *ARE* the place for experimental government (it contains the damage and provides a control variable!) so ...). If 2 decades from now WI is competing with Alabama (of sigh California) for lowest school scores then .... it's not my kids, it's not my property values, and it's not my neighbors, but I do care a lot about a truly educated people for the future. The public schools are very far from a paragon of this, it's just hmm, what's the other plan? I'm fine with homeschooling etc., but realistically of course not everyone is going to live on a single income and home school, etc..

and you know, a big reason for these companies moving was to keep their costs as low as possible. Everyone wants to buy the cheapest stuff at walmart produced by slave labor yet get paid a good wage. That equation doesn't add up.

That's to blame the poor walmart shopper too much, and let the powerful get off far too easy. If the point is: practice ethical consumerism. Got ya. Agreed. But what actually happened wasn't just massive demand at the bottom for cheap goods at any costs like a totally bottom driven revolution if you will, what actually happened was dozens of trade agreements signed (and still being signed - yes under Obama), that made all this possible, in fact virtually inevitable. And that all happened at the highest level. And you don't need to believe in conspiracy to think that actions in some cases are thought through and planned. That maybe they knew all along the effect of this and what it would be. That maybe the destruction of manufacturing in America was foreseen and allowed, not just an "unintended consequence" (ha sometimes consequences aren't unintended). Wow "allowed", isn't that kind of conspiratorial? Look economic reasoning and models exist (yea ha scoff at their reliability but I doubt they are all as bad as their reputation) so it's sometimes possible to know the consequences of policies (especially what are fairly straight forward ones like this - I mean when your talking about social effects, like even the effect I speculate on above on WI schools, things get complicated as heck - but something like trade I think can be more straightforward). What if it was all planned and allowed? The destruction of manufacturing, the outsourcing of jobs, so that lower wages and higher unemployment are permanent features etc..

Oooh booga booga New World Order, but again knowing the effects of straightforward policies you implement isn't necessarily magic. It's not necessarily irrational to believe people can. And I'm not even arguing this from some absolute anti international trade position. I don't hate international trade or anything. It may have some benefits etc.. I'm asking what policies have our elected representatives deliberately inflicted on us for which we can now blame walmart shoppers! (but the trade agreements were never bottom up and in fact encountered a lot of resistance initially from people on the right and left - they were always elite consensus). The world we live is perhaps a built and designed world (ha with spontaneous order as well, but I'm talking about Washington policies here which are the opposite of that).

[creaker]

That's to blame the poor walmart shopper too much, and let the powerful get off far too easy.

I didn't take this as blaming walmart shoppers, just a very over-simplified statement associating actions and outcomes.

[flowerseverywhere]

That's to blame the poor walmart shopper too much, and let the powerful get off far too easy. If the point is: practice ethical consumerism. Got ya. Agreed. But what actually happened wasn't just massive demand at the bottom for cheap goods at any costs like a totally bottom driven revolution if you will, what actually happened was dozens of trade agreements signed (and still being signed - yes under Obama), that made all this possible, in fact virtually inevitable. And that all happened at the highest level. And you don't need to believe in conspiracy to think that actions in some cases are thought through and planned. That maybe they knew all along the effect of this and what it would be. That maybe the destruction of manufacturing in America was foreseen and allowed, not just an "unintended consequence" (ha sometimes consequences aren't unintended). Wow "allowed", isn't that kind of conspiratorial? Look economic reasoning and models exist (yea ha scoff at their reliability but I doubt they are all as bad as their reputation) so it's sometimes possible to know the consequences of policies (especially what are fairly straight forward ones like this - I mean when your talking about social effects, like even the effect I speculate on above on WI schools, things get complicated as heck - but something like trade I think can be more straightforward). What if it was all planned and allowed? The destruction of manufacturing, the outsourcing of jobs, so that lower wages and higher unemployment are permanent features etc..

excellent post. I was not implying walmart per se, but rather the attitude. Cheap food, cheap gas, cheap cars, as a society we want it all. More services and better schools but not more taxes. And as it goes up the chain the people at the top want it all. I often wonder how a ceo can watch layoffs and wage freezes take place (often implementing them) while accepting millions of dollars of compensation a year, way more than any person needs to live a very nice upper middle class life and a secure future for themselves and their children. Kind of like our political leaders- I don't believe many have any idea of the struggles average middle class americans face every day trying to get ahead or in some instances stay afloat.