Why are American kids so spoiled? - NY Times

[Square Peg]

Zoebird, I don't know if we are the same age or not, but I thought my mom was the only person that actually instilled this fear in people! I am 41, my mom is 81. Whenever we would go to the big suburban mall, she would say, "Stay right with me, otherwise a guy will come up behind you, stick a needle in your back to drug you, kidnap you and take you to China to become a prostitute" There was so much fear there: He was coming up from behind so I couldn't see him, I was drugged and helpless, I was taken to China where I couldn't even speak the language, and the thought of prostitution at age 10 was terrifying!

I have mixed feelings on the Protecting the Gift. I believe it was written with the best of intentions and has truly helped a lot of parents feel safer and allow their kids more space. However, I have also seen it abused, because any weird feeling a person has can be seem as instinct. I remember reading this thread (not on this board, on a parenting board) written by a mother who had a weird feeling about a woman because this woman (an older woman, grandmotherly age) was being kind to her son. So many people on the board jumped in with, "Oh, trust your instincts, if you are concerned, than you have reason to be!" We can't always tell a person's intention, especially if that other person is from a different culture or has a disability, or even is from a different generation. And once we can call our fears and prejudices instinct, they become sacred and not to be messed with, at least for some people, and those people are often the ones who would benefit most from that book! Which is a sad conundrum.

Did you know that some parks do not allow adults to sit at the park if not accompanying a child? That kind of law makes me sad. It further segregates people and feeds into the notion that the world is a scary place.

[Mrs-M]

It's the culture we live in nowadays, everyone (working-class) trying to out-do one another and be something they're not, so let's pass that down to our kids so our kids can shine brighter than the other neighbourhood kids.

[Square Peg]

Zoebird, another thing is the fear of CPS. Whether real or imagined, we parents have been instilled with the fear that any bump, any burn, leaving the kid home alone, letting him roam town on his bicycle, any of these things can result in a knock on the door.

Catherine, yes to the small adult thing, although we are totally and completely guilty of this. I think maybe it is because dh and I are both youngest children and weren't around kids very much. Also we have really smart kids who are on the autism spectrum, and so process information differently. When your 2nd grader is reading college textbooks (and reading them thoroughly in a day), the approach is different. But I remember once we were at the zoo and our oldest was about 2. Maybe even younger. And dh was explaining to him all about tigers and where they live and what they eat and on and on. There was a young family standing next to us and the dad said to his 2 year old, "Yeah! Big kitty!" After we left the exhibit, I pointed it out to DH. We laughed and it became our tagline for when we thought the other was going over the kid's head. "Big Kitty"

[JaneV2.0]

"...That’s why no generation of teens and young adults has ever been as self-centered as this one. Take it from journalist Peter Wyden, the cover of whose book on the subject depicts a child lounging on a divan eating grapes while Mom fans him and Dad holds an umbrella to protect him from the sun: It’s become “tougher and tougher to say ‘no’ [to children] and make it stick,” he insists.

Or listen to the lament of a parent who blames progressive child development experts for the fact that her kids now seem to believe “they have priority over everything and everybody.”

Or consider a pointed polemic published in The Atlantic. Sure, the author concedes, kids have always been pleasure seekers, but longtime teachers report that what we’re currently witnessing “is different from anything we have ever seen in the young before.” Parents teach “nothing wholeheartedly” and things come so easily to children nowadays that they fail to develop any self-discipline. Forget about traditional values: Today, it’s just a “culte du moi.”

Powerful stuff. Except now that I think about it, those three indictments may not offer the best argument against today’s parents and their offspring. That’s because they were published in 1962, 1944, and 1911, respectively." (from Alfie Kohn)

Same as it ever was.

Exactly. Nothing to see, folks. Move along.

[Zoebird]

I'm 36.

Yes, fear of CPS is at issue.

I also think that the 'kids ruling the house' phenomenon is really just a lack of awareness/knowledge on what boundaries are needed. That's what I see, anyway. But you can't really advice people on parenting; it goes awry.

[Charity]

I agree it isn't just the parents, but you also can't exclude the parents from the issue entirely. And I also think this did start a long time ago which is how we as a society got into as much debt as we did. Somewhere along the line we got sold on the notion that we should have what we want whether we can afford it or not. That in itself is a sense of entitlement.

But one thing that I started noticing a few years ago is very different. There are a growing number of ads on TV for cars that are based on what your kids will want you to drive. Marketer's clearly saw a shift in the decision making process for adults making purchases and geared their advertising approach to it. You'll see it a lot in food advertising as well. It makes me nuts when I see ads where the mom is the hero because she was able to get three kinds of chicken in one bucket rather than disappoint one of her kids with crispy instead of original. Oh horrors. We I was growing up we were happy to have KFC at all. No one asked us about our preference.

[awakenedsoul]

I agree it isn't just the parents, but you also can't exclude the parents from the issue entirely. And I also think this did start a long time ago which is how we as a society got into as much debt as we did. Somewhere along the line we got sold on the notion that we should have what we want whether we can afford it or not. That in itself is a sense of entitlement.

But one thing that I started noticing a few years ago is very different. There are a growing number of ads on TV for cars that are based on what your kids will want you to drive. Marketer's clearly saw a shift in the decision making process for adults making purchases and geared their advertising approach to it. You'll see it a lot in food advertising as well. It makes me nuts when I see ads where the mom is the hero because she was able to get three kinds of chicken in one bucket rather than disappoint one of her kids with crispy instead of original. Oh horrors. We I was growing up we were happy to have KFC at all. No one asked us about our preference.

Me neither. "This is what we're having." My mom was an excellent cook. We loved everything she made. I think it's also technology. When I taught ballet, one 11 year old went out in the hallway and phoned her father on her cell phone because I had disciplined her. (I think I told her to stop talking.) The father drove in to the studio, ( on a workday,) burst into the door, and started yelling at me. It's really unbelievable how things have changed. I gave a lecture after he left, and the little girl hung her head. She was one of my best students, too. She was highly intelligent and incredibly talented, but very manipulative. At the end of the year, her mother gave me roses!

There's another article by the same author on Tiger Mothers. It talks about how Chinese mothers parent as compared to Western mothers. I guess my mom was more like the Chinese.

[Zoebird]

We live by "This is what we are having" too. Most families here are, but man, so many families run short-order kitchens. It's amazing. I dont' know how they manage.

I read the Tiger Moms articles as well (haven't read the book), but I didn't see a ton of great qualities. I felt like the parent was making too many decisions for the child, and that the child was 'overscheduled' based on the descriptions in the articles.

We do "free range parenting" and "slow parenting" with "unconditional parenting" (which is discipline without punishments/rewards). And of course, with steiner and buddhist underpinnings.

It's working well so far.

[Stella]

I am definitely a "this is what we are having for dinner" mom too. I have a jar where people can put their suggestions for meals and I do try to work in suggestions within a week or two of them being suggested. I suppose if it were something off-the-wall I would probably say no entirely, but who knows. Anyone requesting lutefisk would be out of luck, but I'm adventurous otherwise. It gives them some input and gives me some ideas when I'm short on them, but it's delayed gratification, to be sure. Tomorrow's grilled pizza is a request item from a week or two ago.

I don't know what I'd call our parenting style really. Our kids have routines, rules, chores and expectations, but also quite a bit of freedom to run around and explore. We don't listen to whining and complaining, but we listen to suggestions and concerns. We take those to heart, but ultimately we are the authority and make the decisions. Once in a while someone bucks and tests, but mostly that's just how life is to them. One nice thing about having a bigger family is that a lot of lessons on sharing, getting along with others and caring for others are easy to come by. They have to learn how to share things and space. There's just no other option.

[WildOnesMama]

[QUOTE=Square Peg;88733]Zoebird, another thing is the fear of CPS. Whether real or imagined, we parents have been instilled with the fear that any bump, any burn, leaving the kid home alone, letting him roam town on his bicycle, any of these things can result in a knock on the door.

EXACTLY!!!! Our kids are taught in school that if they feel uncomfortable or mishandled in anyway REPORT. My sons will be uncomfortable when facing consequences for misbehavior. Many times they tell me, I'll tell my teacher you were mean to me, because they don't get their own way.

They are taught over and over that they DO NOT have to respect authority figures. Teachers swear in class, and tell crude jokes to be the "cool" teacher. I have seen female teachers dressed in ways that would embarass a prostitute. Its ok for kids to wear their pajamas and slippers. As long as they are comfortable.

Egos have been so inflated that everyone is out for ME, ME, ME.