Dysthymia

[redfox]

Anyone out here in SLF land gotten successful, non-pharmaceutical assistance of any kind or kinds for this disorder? I am seeking a way out from under the Persistent greyness I've felt ebb & flow throughout my entire adult life. It's gotten pretty bad in the last two years.

After a loving & frank talk with DH, and with my therapist sis, I'm ready to get treatment for this low level depression. I am not interested in antidepressants, at least at this point. I'd love to hear from those of you who've had experience with naturopathy, homeopathy, acupuncture, exercise, meditation, yoga, etc. Thanks!

[Sissy]

redfox, I know that you are asking for natural remedies/procedures. I also have dysthymia and have had since I was a teenager and I am 57! I pretty much have learned to live with it tho it is sort of like living in the shadows sometimes. I am also an introvert/HSP, so I don't really mind the shadows too much. I hope that you find a treatmnt that works. I take antidepressants and they do help me. I have had to accept that I will probably have to take them for the rest of my life, but it is better than the alternative (for me).

I have been so surprised that since the illness and death of my husband that I haven't dropped into a full-blown depression. The mind is a weird and wonderful thing. I have had lot of support, tho and my family don't give me much time to wallow in it!

Good luck!

[frugalone]

I am on Lexapro, but a very low dose. I've been depressed most of my life. Cognitive behavioral therapy has helped a great deal. I know people say exercise helps, but at times when I was exercising regularly, I felt better immediately after leaving the gym--but it didn't last that long. It did, however, help with my fatigue issues. I'm on a very low carb, almost no sugar diet, and I can't say that has helped much (but it probably does not hurt!)

I wish you luck in this struggle. It can be very hard, I know.

[Maxamillion]

I've had depression most of my life too. Most of the doctors in the past said it was major depression but last year, I was diagnosed with dysthymia as well. It's taken almost 17 years to find a combination of antidepressants that's helped; the new doctor I started seeing last year is pretty good. I still have way too many days though where I just can't function but I'm no longer stuck in 24/7 pit-of-despairville.

As far as alternative treatments, I've been getting Reiki treatments once a month for the last year and it has really helped, about as much as the antidepressants, if not more so. I've tried meditation and it didn't do much for me. Before I lost my job, I was going to the gym, which helped some but not nearly as much as what everyone said it would, and I hated every minute on the treadmill. I would've enjoyed going a lot more if they'd had a pool. Herbal-wise, I've had some luck in the past with St. John's Wort. I've tried 5-htp and Sam-e also, but didn't notice any difference with those.

[Amaranth]

A Combo of things that help:

1) Eating the Eat to Live way. It gives good coverage of micronutrients. It’s based on 30+ years of research looking at what people eat in areas where there is virtually no chronic disease. Most libraries have the latest edition of the book. For excellent recipes and a forum where people share tips on what works the best gor particular situations subscribe to the website at
http://www.drfuhrman.com/
It is common in areas where people eat this way to garden every day, walk everywhere they go, and go out dancing once a week when they are in the 90-110 age range. They generally have an enjoyable life.

2) To check for less common nutrients you might be consistently low on, the DietPower software is really helpful and easy to use. If there is a certain meal you eat fairly often, you can make it a “recipe” and save typing.
http://www.dietpower.com/
As a bonus I also find this software very helpful for designing Complete Nutrition Gardens. You can make the average daily harvest a recipe and check that against your own nutritional needs or the standard male or female used for sample designs.

3) For learning different ways of thinking about things, The Feeling Good Handbook by Burns is helpful. The more skilled you become about thinking realistically about various aspects of life, the more productively you can respond to them.

4) Once you have eaten the Eat to Live Way for about two months, have tests done to check your nutrient levels and adjust/tweek things as needed. For example one friend showed low levels of iron. She took iron tablets and still showed low levels of iron. Further testing showed she couldn’t absorb B12 from food, so it needed to be injected every several weeks. Then she could absorb the iron from the food. Finally her energy came back.

[ApatheticNoMore]

The first thing I thought: get out of Seattle! Now don't get me wrong in summer Seattle is a beautiful city, as stunning as anywhere on earth, to me it is close to paradise (but with some bums downtown ) - but the LACK OF SUN much of the year, would just get to me I think. I'm sure you may have tried sun lamps and all that. I wonder if they are the same as the real thing, I don't know. Perhaps you supplement with vitamin D. No sun is not the total answer to depression (probably, I do sometimes really wonder if it isn't a large part of it! Even in areas with sun it may be partly blocked by pollution etc. plus many of us by necessity spend most of our time indoors often with very little light!), but just the Seattle thing, is why I think of this. When I have heard people in *Portland*, Portland for heavens sake not San Diego, start talking about how Seattle is gothic and seems depressing due to lack of sun, I start to wonder ... (I have contemplated moving to Seattle because it is paradise in summer but ....).

Exercise has never helped me much with depression either, but I'd never do super vigorous stuff (and I think super vigorous stuff might be what you need for that effect). I'd take long walks in the dark in winter wondering ... why isn't my depression improving? Yea better to at least combine the exercise with sun (but Seattle ...), preferably with nature, maybe with a company, that's a quadruple hit of endorphins. It does give me a temporary high.

I've never been able to combat depression with diet. I agree if you eat a junk food diet that it will agrevate mood problems (artificial colors, bad fats - the brain does need omega 3s and stuff - omega 3s are correlated with lower depression worldwide, low cholesterol is correlated with depression). So healthy diet, important, but I don't think it's the complete solution and I've tried a few (The Mood Cure says eat protein with every meal - my heavens did I get sick of that much protein! blegh). And maybe I never did anything radical enough with diet, maybe if only I did Eat to Live. I just haven't found the answer there as of yet anyway .

Things that I have found to improve my mood: time in nature (recommended, side effect free so long as you don't get lyme disease or something ), sunshine, I think cutting back on caffeine may help but so hard to do. 5-htp gave a bit of a high, a kind of dreamy euphoria, but had side effects. From what I have read, it may be contra-indicated in various circumstances anyway, it directly increases the supply of serotonin (in a way anti-depressants don't) but there may be cases you don't want that if you have diseases that are using serotonin. I dont' know, just some stuff I've read.

There are probably plenty of things you could test if you are looking for purely physical causes: vitamin D, thyroid, hormones, anemia, other vitamin deficiencies, allergies etc.. Harder if you don't have insurance though.

If you are depressed about your life, well clearly I don't know the details, but your job situation genuinely sounds depressing, if you want and can't get full time work, what can I say. I don't have the full answer to depression myself and I've tried dozens and dozens of things (I even bought a happiness hypnosis tape which I haven't used! I've read books on evolutionary psychology and depression I've ack!), and will probably keep trying until I die, I will say that this current job I am doing has added tremendously to my depression. It just has. Period :\ I was much happier before.

Ah well expectations of how happy we are supposed to be may perhaps be quite unrealistic to begin with.

[redfox]

Thanks, ApatheticNoMore. I got some good laughs out of your get out of Seattle exhortation. Actually, I love Seattle, the NW, and the cool, grey weather. I do supplement with Vit D.

I do not like my work, as it's from home, and I am an extrovert. I need to be around people! And, my motivation is awful, due in large part to low level depression, but also fueled by frustration & lack of people input. My career has been uninspiring and unrewarding, with a few exceptions. If I won the lottery tomorrow, I would give notice immediately.

Exercise always makes me feel better, so I am once again starting classes at the local parks dept., very adfordable, and designed for seniors. The other big nut I need to crack is getting into some kind of professional meetup, to break my isolation. I seriously get my socializiation needs met at Goodwill. How pathetic is that?!?

I need to work full time, but do not want to, at least until I get a handle on my disrupted sleep & depression. At this point, a middle management job in a non-profit, gov't agency, or interesting business would be just fine.

[pinkytoe]

It's funny but the Seattle connection was the first thing that came to my mind, too. When we visited there a few years back, it seemed like a lot of the populace looked a little gloomy. I am always amazed at how the weather and light affect my moods in general.

[ApatheticNoMore]

I was thinking recently, that I might be happier going the non-profit route like you redfox. But it doesn't pay anything. That may be, maybe after 2 decades or so at decent paying jobs it's enough to call it quits with the heavy accumulating savings though and I could lay off it a little and just earn a living (because I don't know how much more I can stand of this! ). It's a very different set of skills and experience they want than what I have (what I have actually seems to position me surprisingly well, to work private sector small to mid-size companies). Of course that's assuming there are any jobs at all, which again is getting highly dubious, so many fields lack jobs these days.

[RoseFI]

RedFox, here are my tips, having known way too many depressed people in Seattle... and way too many suicides there from people taking anti-depressants, though with the correct professional support I've also known them to work well -- problem is it's absolutely dependent on individual chemistry. IMHO, the key is to recognize that they are a prop for re-wiring synapses that have been wired over years and years to be depressive. They don't actually rewire, they just interrupt the old wiring, giving space for the therapies and new habits that develop the new optimistic pathways. If you don't have professional support that has that philosophy, don't try them. Here are some of those new habits that I've learned really help the positive rewiring with or without drugs:

* do you have a "happy light"? Just about all NW women I know use one as soon as the sun starts hanging low to the south (equinox), and it's made a noticeable difference. Sit by it for 15mins over your morning coffee... umm, I mean coffee substitute... better yet, meditate/pray/spiritually attune during that time.
* most northwesterners I know who have gone off sugar have noticeable elevation of general mood. (Not for the first two weeks, which are even grumpier than ever while going through the withdrawal... but if you get grumpy without sugar, you KNOW you need to get off it to stabilize moods.) Similar results with those who have gone raw-only diet.
* a friend who did iodine treatments found it REALLY helpful... but only if she remembered to do it! See a naturopath to find out if that's a fit for you.
* For me, nature is absolute key. Take a short walk every day, even if it's just a small circle in your yard, and force yourself to REALLY BEHOLD the LITTLE things, even if it's just the miracle of the tenacity of the weeds that grow in the sidewalk cracks. Absolute key to reconnecting with the larger life force pulsing all around us. Don't look at how beautifully coiffed neighbors front yards are -- look at and smell an individual blossom, or the pattern of the branches of a tree against the sky. Make it as multi-sensual as possible. When the sun is out, stop in a sunny place and stand there until there are no thoughts except the FEELING of it on your skin, recharging you. THAT IS SIMPLE LIVING -- you can FEEL it slowing down the hamster wheel of discontented thoughts even if only for those moments...
* Can you get to a high spot 15 minutes before the sun sets? When the "on-shore flow" settles in, the sun almost always peeks from under the clouds before it sets behind the Olympics -- wherever you are, try to catch those 10-15 minutes of golden rays in your eyeballs.
* YES, get OUT into society, preferably doing something creative. Absolutely must for everyone's sanity, but especially extroverts. This is much harder to do in Seattle than in a small town, I know. Join a aqua-aerobics class, take a drawing class at the senior center (something I did even though I'm not senior!), join a cribbage group if you need active interaction, or join the Columbia City Community Chorus... just something completely unrelated to what you do for money, or where your "obligations" lay, and where you can't be kvetching about those burdens either. Set a goal to try just one thing per month until you find the activity that seems to be a good fit. Conversely, get IN to the relationships you do have -- how much hugging is happening these days? Try to regularly "hug until you relax" a la John Gottman.
* Final one: set a goal, enlisting your partner's involvement/support. Nothing big, but something GOOD. Maybe it's a weekend get-away in December, (and then March... and then June) or a deadline for when you'll make some shift around your job. Just something to look forward to, to plan for and discuss together, an optimistic thing to direct your thoughts toward. K and I always have to have "the next adventure" looming up ahead to keep us motivated.

You're really good at supporting other people, so when you feel stuck, talk (or write) to yourself as if you were someone you were trying to help, and see what comes out of your mouth... or imagine you're talking to someone who you find inspirational, and what they'd be saying to encourage you to take care of yourself, not in a scolding way, but in an inviting way. This is a GREAT habit to develop.

Big hugs! (is there an emoticon for that?)