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Thread: A Sign of the Times?

  1. #21
    Simpleton Alan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gregg View Post
    I'm also in the camp that would like a second opinion beyond Ezra Klein's. I agree that there isn't much in the way of potential scandal with the IRS/Tea Party story. In reality its probably business as usual, it just got exposed this time because a few of the players were bumbling idiots.

    The scandalous part of the DoJ story isn't so much the actions taken, its that those actions might actually be legal (or at least "not illegal" as the case may be).

    Benghazi is the one that might, and should, reach the White House. If ever there was a story where the government is trying to release information in tiny little trickles with the hope the public will grow weary and move on, this is it. Releasing 100 pages of emails out of 25,000? What's in the other 24,900 Mr. President, et al? Who knows if there was a scandal there or not, but either way the US response was completely inept.
    Gregg, I'm gonna disagree with your first two assertions. We're being misled on the IRS thing, being told that there were 2 or 4 low level employees in one office responsible for the actions even though documentation exists of similar violations from three different offices in Ohio, California and Washington. That coordination of effort cannot exist on the level we're being told is responsible.
    There's an excellent opinion piece in today's Wall Street Journal which, I think, gives a much better understanding of how this happened and why it is linked to the very top of this administration. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...s_opinion_main

    On the DOJ/AP story, we're being misled again. The National Security excuse we're being fed is not borne out by the facts. http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...767_print.html
    It appears more and more that this was a political effort designed to ultimately prevent the press from doing it's job and show their sources, including potential whistleblowers, that their days were numbered.

    Both examples suggest an effort to subvert the democratic principles our country was founded on and every item in the current scandal cascade shows the taint of politics over governance.
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

  2. #22
    Senior Member Rogar's Avatar
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    The ensuing witch hunt will probably get to the bottom of this. I see some analogous comparisons to the war on drugs, where the presidents may have encouraged more action, but it was (or is) the law enforcement agencies who have done the targeting of low incomes and minorities.

    The extra scrutiny on certain groups was inappropriate, however as yet I've not seen where anyone was unjustly charged or subjected to unfair penalties. On the other hand, as bank robber Willie Lohman responded when asked why he robbed banks, "that's where the money is". What if the supposed political groups, or those claiming a tea party or other label on their tax exempt status were actually significantly more likely to be in violation of United States tax codes.
    "what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" Mary Oliver

  3. #23
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  4. #24
    Senior Member catherine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redfox View Post
    Good one!

    Here's one more: Last week I got a FB post from an old, obviously conservative, high school friend that Obamacare is going to mandate that everyone get microchips implanted. And the comments he received on his post suggest that people (i.e., my otherwise sane and rational friends) are actually believing it and are frightened by it.
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by redfox View Post
    Conservatives keep asking why I don't care about Benghazi, the IRS or AP controversies. Here it is in a nutshell: For more than 4 years we have been screaming desperately about the abuses of this administration. Freedom of the press and crackdown on whistle blowers, for more than 4 years civil libertarians have been screaming their heads off about the disgraceful treatment of Julian Assange, Bradley Manning, Anonymous, etc. But somehow Wikileaks was seen as not worth defending, only now that it reaches the AP is freedom of the press worth defending. The only people prosecuted for the crimes of our government have been those that dare to expose them. Prosecution of whistle blowers? Tell me something I haven't known about for nearly the entire Obama administration. And where was the conservative opposition? Yes indeed. I do agree this is a new low.

    As for "he does not read anti-American books", oh poor fool he should probably try to become better read especially if he's going to hold such a high position of power, I mean it's one thing if joe schmoe is that horribly ill informed but our President is apparently so ill informed that he's never read an anti-American book and this is the ruler of the most powerful country on earth. Maybe he TOO sticks to "my pet goat"!

    He did pass the NDAA. He wont' rule out it applies to speech! He does put stays on court decisions in order to keep the NDAA. He does claim to have secret interpretations of secret laws. He does claim "due process" doesn't necessarily include a trail. He does refuse to close Gitmo. There does seem evidence his policies helped cover up the full extent of the BP oil spill. There does seem to have been an assination plot by someone on Occupy. He does keep trying to gut social security. He does claim the right to murder anyone. The kill list is secret. He does keep prosecuting whistleblowers. He does staff the FDA and USDA with Monsanto employees. He does stack his economic team almost exclusively with the vampire squid. He is trying to pass a secret trade agreement that will overrule sovereignty and the ability to pass environmental and financial regulation on any level. He has escalated vastly the number of countries the U.S. is involved in militarily in half-secret wars almost noone knows about. His administration is constantly pushing for the right to spy on everyone all the time.

    When you scream long enough and loud enough, nobody cares because you don't own the media and if you have to ask the price of a politician you can't afford one. But I think ultimately everyone knows that much of this does appear to be happening, I just think sometimes people like to pretend it's not for the sake of partisanship and their sanity.
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  6. #26
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    Here's one more: Last week I got a FB post from an old, obviously conservative, high school friend that Obamacare is going to mandate that everyone get microchips implanted. And the comments he received on his post suggest that people (i.e., my otherwise sane and rational friends) are actually believing it and are frightened by it.
    Maybe they are confusing it with the biometric identification snuck into the immigration bill? I haven't read that bill either though but it does seem the source of much chatter. In the name of rationality it's best to try to keep track of what horrors are actually happening and what are merely false rumors, but that people will believe anything at a certain point, when you can't trust the evening news to tell you what's really going on, is hardly surprising.
    Trees don't grow on money

  7. #27
    Senior Member sylvia's Avatar
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    Thanks Puglogic! Optimism is the enemy of the media frenzies, it is through fear that people become dependent on the "WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN NEXT!!". I witnessed this from The Weather Channel and Hurricane season forecasting that had my parents on the edge of their seats-to find out that nothing would happen the next morning.So I try to watch happier movies and shows., but there aren't any. there is just "gloom and doom". So I'll just watch the sunset instead. Nature is the best form of entertainment.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    Gregg, I'm gonna disagree with your first two assertions. We're being misled on the IRS thing, being told that there were 2 or 4 low level employees in one office responsible for the actions even though documentation exists of similar violations from three different offices in Ohio, California and Washington. That coordination of effort cannot exist on the level we're being told is responsible.
    There's an excellent opinion piece in today's Wall Street Journal which, I think, gives a much better understanding of how this happened and why it is linked to the very top of this administration. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...s_opinion_main
    Thanks Alan, this article was especially interesting.

    Both examples suggest an effort to subvert the democratic principles our country was founded on and every item in the current scandal cascade shows the taint of politics over governance.
    Unfortunately that has become business as usual (IMO).
    "Back when I was a young boy all my aunts and uncles would poke me in the ribs at weddings saying your next! Your next! They stopped doing all that crap when I started doing it to them... at funerals!"

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