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Thread: Stimulated by cx3's teaching/welfare post this morning

  1. #1
    Senior Member Jilly's Avatar
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    Stimulated by cx3's teaching/welfare post this morning

    My experience is not spot on to that interesting thread and I did not want to impose my thoughts there, but is connected.

    I work with people who have significant challenges. Yeah, I know that I have shared this several times, so I get that it is boring, although not for me. Some are referred to me by our social and governmental agencies. Some are already employed, but struggling, and some are in the process of seeking financial resources.

    My state has a program that provides assistance to families, with minor children and incomes below 115% of the FPL. This program requires that applicants conduct 25 hours of job searching each week. Not 25 applications or application attempts, but actual, reportable hours that can be verified.

    I worked with a client yesterday who takes whatever jobs she can find, most of them temporary, via several placement agencies, and casual word-of-mouth jobs. She is a new client, and has asked to work weekly, in conjunction with her case worker, on employment issues and training and finding resources for her son. In addition to her two current, very part time jobs and caring for her son who has some health issues, she has that 25 hours of extra work in order to comply with the job searching requirement. She does not have a car or computer, which makes meeting that requirement difficult, but she does it. Yesterday she shared that she is running out of places to apply.

    I am not trying to say that there are not any people who take advantage of these resources, it is just that we can forget about those who are doing their best and still not being able to adequately care for their families. And, it kind of hugely irritates me when I hear people I know (real life) be critical of these programs and the people who use them. Not here, but flesh and blood and heartless folk I actually know.

    There is a lot of discussion amongst my friends concerning social services abuse and health care reform. I do not have any answers or notions about how any of this can be fixed. Well, I do have notions.

    And, I am enormously irritated at those who abuse the system. And, whilst I rarely need to do so, I am glad to be a mandated reporter for illegal activity.

    That's all. Now I can say that I have posted in this forum. Ha!
    It is well, when judging a friend, to remember that he is judging you with the same godlike and superior impartiality. Arnold Bennett

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    I will take seriously the claims of the poor abusing systems of support when all the bankers who've stolen homes & livelihoods are prosecuted.

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    Senior Member reader99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redfox View Post
    I will take seriously the claims of the poor abusing systems of support when all the bankers who've stolen homes & livelihoods are prosecuted.
    +1

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    Senior Member iris lilies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redfox View Post
    I will take seriously the claims of the poor abusing systems of support when all the bankers who've stolen homes & livelihoods are prosecuted.
    Because one justifies the other. Got it.

    Now, in a practical vein, I think it's mostly silly and a waste of time (although it DOES employee more gubmnt workers! and that's important!) to require people with dependent children to punch an imaginary time clock 25 hours a week seeking work. It's feel good politics. And it keeps those gubmnet employees employed and busy, to check those records of 25 hours a week.

    For god's sake just give up the TANF income to moms and get the children raised with a mother in the house who can devote her time to the children. Only here's the kicker--mom needs to have No. More. Children. Period.

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    I can't imagine any universe in which a dishonest banker sits around justifying it ... but the welfare mothers do it ....
    Trees don't grow on money

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    Quote Originally Posted by iris lilies View Post
    Because one justifies the other. Got it.
    Actually, because one is A LOT more lucrative than the other. The pennies lost from welfare fraud is a puff of air when compared with the billions in fraud by white collar criminals. A pretty simple equation, IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ApatheticNoMore View Post
    I can't imagine any universe in which a dishonest banker sits around justifying it ... but the welfare mothers do it ....
    LOL! No, they pay expensive lawyers & Congressmen to do that for them.

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    Actually, because one is A LOT more lucrative than the other. The pennies lost from welfare fraud is a puff of air when compared with the billions in fraud by white collar criminals. A pretty simple equation, IMO.
    Really when I think about the issue I don't even think first about accounting and comparing dollar amounts, those aren't the first resources I count. It's more like I count my cognitive bandwidth in units of time spend thinking, if I'm going to think about "things that are wrong in the world", some people taking welfare they don't deserve is pretty far down on that list (I can't even scroll that far down).

    I count in units of "bad things", if I'm adding up "bad things in the world" I can barely even measure that finely (it's hard to make it even appear on the same scale as the rest of the graph!). Because yes it *is* very little money (maybe if it was a vast fortune it would be different). And it's very little power, welfare recipients aren't powerful in this society, thus they can't do much harm compared to all that are powerful and thus can. At most they waste piddling of money. And then if this is weighed against the fact that no doubt at least *some* of them genuinely need the help, the amount "wasted" is even less.

    But they should be lifted up to useful work not just the sad life (if it is) of a welfare recipient? Maybe, but we don't live in that economy, there aren't enough jobs to go around.

    I mean I suppose one could say that everything that is wrong in this society is somehow used to justify everything else - corrupt bankers, justify some company earning a living by poisoning the local water supply via fracking, justifies undeserved welfare recipients, justifies BP poisoning the gulf, justifies shoplifting, justifies a corrupt prison system ... but all you'll end up is some broad condemnation of general immorality in society so broad as to be pretty useless. Well that's if you are counting more than dollars and cents.
    Trees don't grow on money

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    I have to agree with the idea of -- if we would put as much emotional resource into solving the issues of our economy that are not related to welfare (because it's not the *cause* of the financial problems), then we would probably solve the problem much more quickly.

    To me, much of this discussion around welfare is largely a "bread and circus" way to avoid talking about some of the real issues around why the economy is in the crapper. Which has to do with some deregulation in the 80s, and a whole lot of other things.

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