1 in 8 workers will never retire

[Zoebird]

NZ was one of the first countries to provide pensions for elders, and it happened in the early 1900s. It was largely because there seems to come a time when you cannot work any longer (disability), but you can live well enough for a few years anyway. People who couldn't work and weren't wealthy enough to support themselves for a bit caused particular social problems that exist due to poverty -- and NZ sought to abate that poverty (which is sort of the point of most of these social systems).

So, they created a system where people who were old and could not work would have housing, food, and medical care to abate the social and public health problems related to poverty. It wasn't about old people having leisure time in their 'golden years' so that they could go fishing or play lots of golf. It was so that, overall, the problem of poverty would be abated, and that these individuals would have a healthy, dignified end-of-life time.

And that, really, is the point of "retirement" in that "original-ish" form. Otherwise, you just worked until you couldn't work any longer and hoped that family took care of you or you were wealthy and knew that that wealth would take care of you.

I also love this concept of "golden handcuffs" because it's something that DH and I talk about a lot, as well as MMM for that matter. Using some MMM principles and planning out our lives going forward in the US, we have a clear path to returning to independent work (rather than necessarily working for companies).

Our desire is to work long term, ie "never retire" because we love our work. But, we want it to always be on our terms -- so the combination of living frugally, planning carefully, and saving well (plus fingers crossed everything going well) will allow us to do this, while also still earning income over time to add to our pile.

[ApatheticNoMore]

Of course people who can't work in their old age hasn't gone away (especially if people have done physical labor all their lives - the desk jockeys are more likely to be spared except for the carpal tunnel ), nor has poverty (though yes old age programs mitigate old age poverty).

Most people actually collect SS at 62. This isn't to their advantage as far as maximizing payout from SS, the lifetime payoff would be more for most if they waited until full retirement age to collect. They either can't work due to physical problems (and this is not an insignificant number) or can't find anyone to hire them at that age due to age discrimination probably. Or they hate their jobs enough to voluntarily get out early and collect even if getting out means several decades of poverty? That's an interesting one, though I can't rule it out entirely (I uh know the feeling). But really how many of these early collectors are retiring for golf (at the public golf course? maybe it's not too unaffordable - not like I've priced it recently). But it's not mostly the better off who are taking the early collection.

[danna]

A lot of the desk jockeys I know including myself have come away from 25+ year with bad backs.
So ApatheticNoMore you are right a lot of people can not work in old age, at least not at the work they know.
And, yes that is what I did; started collecting CPP (from Canada) at 62 just to get out of the job.
Was probably not my best idea but, I am making it work so far.....

[ToomuchStuff]

The welfare queen myth driving a Cadillac while having multiple kids to just get more money. even social security, which people are forced to pay into is considered an "entitlement", while the income disparity is growing. interesting times.

Not sure where you get this is/as a myth. There are those that abuse the system, as I believe there are those that abuse ANY system.
It can/has been done in a LEGAL way, doesn't make it right.

I think if you live in an industrial society that produces vast wealth where machines do much of the work that not having more leisure makes zero sense (now if we went back to a non-industrialized society for sustainability or something, and I neither argue for or against it, that would be another animal!). But really most human tasks automated so humans barely even have to do them, and we're not supposed to gain any leisure from it? That's pretty silly society you've got going on there.

I am not sure where your equating leisure time with retirement? Granted, we work less then we would have in pre industrial days, but to me that would be leisure time, which isn't the same as being retired. If it were, and you brought someone in time from that period, they would consider us to be at the minimum, semi retired.

So, they created a system where people who were old and could not work would have housing, food, and medical care to abate the social and public health problems related to poverty. It wasn't about old people having leisure time in their 'golden years' so that they could go fishing or play lots of golf. It was so that, overall, the problem of poverty would be abated, and that these individuals would have a healthy, dignified end-of-life time.

And that, really, is the point of "retirement" in that "original-ish" form. Otherwise, you just worked until you couldn't work any longer and hoped that family took care of you or you were wealthy and knew that that wealth would take care of you.

Our desire is to work long term, ie "never retire" because we love our work. But, we want it to always be on our terms -- so the combination of living frugally, planning carefully, and saving well (plus fingers crossed everything going well) will allow us to do this, while also still earning income over time to add to our pile.

Where the problem lies, that I see, is people believe too much tv, and think when they retire, their standard of living, will actually go UP. Not enough people have realism.
Also, see enough older people, who are retired and since so many of their friends have died or moved elsewhere, they get bored. Being out in the public, engage/working a bit, has been good to a lot of people I know. It keeps the mind active.

[Zoebird]

I think one of the big differences is that when these pension programs started, people lived about 5 years after retirement -- not 15-30 years after retirement. And that's part of the issue.

Also, the social security that does exist isn't really liveable with COL and what not, so most people ahve to continue working to maintain their current quality of life.

[HappyHiker]

Not sure doing work you love is so bad...when I left the high stress life of advertising, I became a freelance writer. Still do some of that, but also do pet-sitting and volunteer at the library. I love all three..retirement may not be in my future--ever. But loving my life right now means I don't much care about traditional retirement.