Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst ... 234
Results 31 to 38 of 38

Thread: What is American Culture Really?

  1. #31
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    9,656
    I'm guessing it's hard to communicate in part because it does not square with her experiences and that of her new friends. Given the amount of advertising in America, the dependence on consumption as the driver of the American economy, and the many people she undoubtedly has seen in malls either in person or even on TV shows and in the news, the simple life you and your family depict is -- well -- unusual.
    It's not unusual, there's quite a lot of people who basically believe in non-consumerist values. But are they some kind of majority? Well no. The majority are probably just trying to survive (and thus maximize convenience, ease, stress relief, forgetting their problems etc.). And well bohemianism although it speaks to many, has never paid, and speaks to the hearts of far more than it pays the bills of. As for much more mainstream, corporate America, in my experience there's a direct correlation between consumption and how much the company tends to pay (maybe not for the individual which is individual choice afterall but for the group). I've worked high paying places, it's vacations all over the world a few times a year (they also had vacation time) and expensive cars all over the parking lot. I've worked less well paying places (and I'm speaking within a middle class range not poverty or anything like that), it's vacation once a year at most often in the U.S. and even in the state (no vacation time anyway) and practical cars and lunch brought from home more often. The only consumption discussed then is buying clothes . Teenagers are a different thing. They can spend money and really appreciate the value of none of it, not you know having full time jobs and the need to support themselves.
    Trees don't grow on money

  2. #32
    Senior Member SteveinMN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Saint Paul, Minnesota
    Posts
    6,618
    Quote Originally Posted by ApatheticNoMore View Post
    I've worked less well paying places (and I'm speaking within a middle class range not poverty or anything like that), it's vacation once a year at most often in the U.S. and even in the state (no vacation time anyway) and practical cars and lunch brought from home more often. The only consumption discussed then is buying clothes . Teenagers are a different thing. They can spend money and really appreciate the value of none of it, not you know having full time jobs and the need to support themselves.
    The member of my family who requires full-time care has a steady parade of PCAs (Personal Care Assistants) going through the house. These folks are great people with family member and are dedicated to what they do. I thank God they're there because it's not something our family would be able to do for that family member. But none of those PCAs are paid more than $10-15 an hour and they have hardly any benefits (vacation/sick time, etc.).

    And, to a person, they all have, umm, interesting priorities in how they spend what little they make. One of them has a penile-implant pickup for no reason connected to what it can haul/tow. Another one has a top-of-the-line smartphone but probably would be far ahead using a lesser phone and spending some money on disability insurance since she is not paid if she can't work. Another PCA has very nicely decorated fingernails -- and a car she cannot depend upon to start when it's very cold.

    Before the right-wingers and libertarians here start streaming out of the woodwork, I will say that I have no problem with people spending their money on whatever floats their boat -- as long as they don't require other people to subsidize their choices. IMHO, many low-wage earners are neglecting their financial safety because they're being sold on the status of an oversized pickup truck or the latest blingy thing they can show off. I believe that's a consumerist culture at work. And I think people who aren't paid buckets of money are just as susceptible to the "you need to have this shiny object" approach as people with more money. They just lack the means to respond to it without sacrificing something else of real value.
    Success is to be measured not so much by the position that one has reached in life as by the obstacles which he has overcome. - Booker T. Washington

  3. #33
    Simpleton Alan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    9,389
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveinMN View Post
    Before the right-wingers and libertarians here start streaming out of the woodwork, I will say that I have no problem with people spending their money on whatever floats their boat -- as long as they don't require other people to subsidize their choices.
    That's actually a "right wing / libertarian" concept. I'm not sure why anyone would think otherwise.
    IMHO, many low-wage earners are neglecting their financial safety because they're being sold on the status of an oversized pickup truck or the latest blingy thing they can show off. I believe that's a consumerist culture at work. And I think people who aren't paid buckets of money are just as susceptible to the "you need to have this shiny object" approach as people with more money. They just lack the means to respond to it without sacrificing something else of real value.
    It could also be that they've simply prioritized in an unapproved manner. It may take a few generations of tacit, and increasingly vocal, disapproval to eliminate that sort of thing.
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein

  4. #34
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    113
    Try not to worry about it. We have a great culture. Embrace the fact that people like NASCAR and football and eat crappy food. It's ok. It's not immoral or indecent or unethical or mean-spirited.

    And there are PLENTY of Americans that like more sophisticated things. There are also plenty of Germans who like Weiner schnitzel (chicken fried steak,) bratwurst (hot dogs) and swilling beer at soccer games.

    I can assure you the Germans who are coming are THRILLED to see American culture up close and it's not because they now have the opportunity to feel culturally superior to the Americans. Likely, they are a little in awe of our culture.

  5. #35
    Senior Member pcooley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    395
    I was pleased that when I asked our guest if she was looking forward to going back home, she said "A little, but I will miss it here. People are so nice in America." I've never thought of our culture as particularly friendly, but I guess it is. She also said that they are much more strict in school in Germany.

    Steve -- I've often wondered about why people spend money on things that are very expensive and/or unnecessary. Not that a few unnecessary things aren't nice to have. I think it's important to have financial goals. What's more important: an iPhone or paying off the mortgage? A new car or a healthy savings account? Maybe too many people just believe that the deck is stacked against them, and they might as well use that credit card to buy an iPad because they aren't going to get anywhere anyway. I don't know if that's true. I'm just guessing. I'll have fits of wanting things. When iPhones came out, I thought "cool!" But how many minutes do I use on my $10 a month, pay-as-you-go phone? I spend about 4 minutes a month on the cell phone. We've had a couple of Kindles given to us, but occasionally I think it would be nice to have an iPad. But do I *really* want an iPad to the tune of $400 or so? No, I don't *really*. Lust for electronics seems like a particularly potent form of cultural disease right now. If I didn't have the goal of paying off the mortgage, and I didn't have this cranky, Luddite facade to live up to, then I'm sure I would impulsively spend much more than I really want to on gadgets. But our income hovers around $60,000. How are the people that are making $18,000 a year doing those things? If I were in that situation, I would be lighting the house with candles from my own hive, and I'd be typing this on my old typewriter, not a MacBook, and my bicycle would most likely be from Walmart if I had one at all.

  6. #36
    Senior Member SteveinMN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Saint Paul, Minnesota
    Posts
    6,618
    Quote Originally Posted by pcooley View Post
    I think it's important to have financial goals. What's more important: an iPhone or paying off the mortgage? A new car or a healthy savings account? Maybe too many people just believe that the deck is stacked against them, and they might as well use that credit card to buy an iPad because they aren't going to get anywhere anyway. I don't know if that's true. I'm just guessing.
    I think it's truer than you know. DW is a social worker and a former poor single mother herself. She very readily understands the mentality that money in life is uncertain, so if you have money and you want something, you buy it. Something will come along to eat up that money anyway; might as have something you enjoy. This is a sign that people see social/class mobility as out of reach.

    I also read an article a few months ago about classism and how it drives especially poor people to do what they do:

    I found one candidate particularly charming. She was trying to get out of a salon because 10 hours on her feet cutting hair would average out to an hourly rate below minimum wage. A desk job with 40 set hours and medical benefits represented mobility for her. When she left my VP turned to me and said, “did you see that tank top she had on under her blouse?! OMG, you wear a silk shell, not a tank top!” Both of the women were black.

    [...]Gatekeeping is a complex job of managing boundaries that do not just define others but that also define ourselves. Status symbols — silk shells, designer shoes, luxury handbags — become keys to unlock these gates. If I need a job that will save my lower back and move my baby from medicaid to an HMO, how much should I spend signaling to people like my former VP that I will not compromise her status by opening the door to me? That candidate maybe could not afford a proper shell. I will never know. But I do know that had she gone hungry for two days to pay for it or missed wages for a trip to the store to buy it, she may have been rewarded a job that could have lifted her above minimum wage.
    If I were to interview for another tech job and pulled out an old beat-up flip phone to retrieve a phone number, I would fail to meet the expectations of those interviewing me. I may not need a smartphone (or even want one) but sometimes the appearance it provides offers much more than the cost. And, courtesy of our consumerist society, even pulling out a smartphone is subject to some judgement ("Heh. Prepaid cheap Android phone." "What is that? It has a physical keyboard!").

    I know some of what I've written here appears to contradict what I wrote earlier. It's not a simple thing. And we all get to make it up as we go along.

    Quote Originally Posted by pcooley View Post
    But our income hovers around $60,000. How are the people that are making $18,000 a year doing those things? If I were in that situation, I would be lighting the house with candles from my own hive, and I'd be typing this on my old typewriter, not a MacBook, and my bicycle would most likely be from Walmart if I had one at all.
    They're not doing what you are doing. Own a house, never mind pay off the mortgage early, as you are doing? Not happening. Consider sending your kids to a private school? Not unless there's a (close-to-)full-ride scholarship/grants involved. You've made choices with your money, too.
    Success is to be measured not so much by the position that one has reached in life as by the obstacles which he has overcome. - Booker T. Washington

  7. #37
    Senior Member SteveinMN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Saint Paul, Minnesota
    Posts
    6,618
    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    Originally Posted by SteveinMN:
    Before the right-wingers and libertarians here start streaming out of the woodwork, I will say that I have no problem with people spending their money on whatever floats their boat -- as long as they don't require other people to subsidize their choices.

    That's actually a "right wing / libertarian" concept. I'm not sure why anyone would think otherwise.
    I know that. You know that. But, very obviously, many people don't.

    The apocryphal "welfare queen" incited many low-information Americans to believe that giving anyone a helping hand was tantamount to giving them the world on a platter -- while they themselves were busy accepting federal farm subsidies, TIF for their businesses and interest deductions for their houses, and preferential income and tax treatment even if they inherited their wealth (rather than earning it and "creating jobs") or are shipping jobs offshore as fast as the paperwork can be printed. I have a niece in the Army (not in combat) who plasters her Facebook feed with the usual Limbaugh/Hannity talking points about government waste. Her mom, who is paid by the county she and DH live in to foster developmentally-disabled kids, posts the same nonsense. Neither one of them sees the irony in accepting government money for what they do. it's never waste when it applies to them.

    And I'm tired of people kicking the cans down the road. Is that a libertarian concept? Want to drive a penismobile that goes off-road only when you hit the ditch on an icy road? Fine. But don't squawk about how expensive it is to feed that beast, especially when you choose to live in the wide-open spaces 40-50 miles from where you work. And when it comes time to send soldiers off to fight in some oil-laden desert somewhere to keep the price of that gas low, don't hide yourself and your kids and make others do multiple tours of duty. Don't complain how much of a bite taxes take from your businesses' profits when your own employees are paid so little that they have to go to a hospital ER to treat just about any ailment and need food stamps to make ends meet. Pay your own freight. I'm not sure why anyone would think otherwise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    It could also be that they've simply prioritized in an unapproved manner. It may take a few generations of tacit, and increasingly vocal, disapproval to eliminate that sort of thing.
    I can see some people are particularly resistant to that re-education.

    In the space of a generation or two, American society has largely turned smokers into pariahs. It is no longer OK to drink and drive. It is no longer OK to discriminate against people for factors (like race and sexual orientation) that they do not control. Or to remain silent in the face of child abuse no matter how powerful the perpetrator.

    Public pressure is not always a bad thing. Much as people like to think they are their own personally-hewn islands, they are not. And they do not exist in a vacuum. Very little does.
    Success is to be measured not so much by the position that one has reached in life as by the obstacles which he has overcome. - Booker T. Washington

  8. #38
    Senior Member pcooley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    395
    Steve et al I've started a new thread in the Consumerism forum title "Possessions as Social Capital." I find the whole question very complex and interesting.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •