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Thread: How to get the homeless off the streets

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    I don't think racism is the only explanation, although it's certainly a part of it. I think it's really a "lowest common denominator" sort of thing. People who view others as perpetual victims seem to think it's cruel to expose those "victims" to alternative worlds since their 'soft bigotry of low expectations' mentality would rather see their inferiors remain on the plantation they know rather than allow them to aspire to something more, and possibly not succeed.

    When I moved into a rural county I learned very quickly that it was good manners to get to know folks for a few years before trying to bring my big city ideas into a functioning community. Then, after that few years, I learned that not only was it respectful and good manners, it was critical to understanding what relationships and systems were already in place that were not immediately obvious, and which served the community quite well, thank you very much.

    Your comments seem to presume that communities of color & poor folk are inferiors, that they live at "the lowest common denominator", and that it's somehow racist to not expose them to "alternative worlds". That being polite and respectful is this mythical "soft bigotry of low expectations" thing. It's simply good manners, common courtesy, to build relationships with new neighbors for a bit before presuming your innovations are needed, welcomed, or an improvement. Get to know folks, understand what systems exist before presuming one knows best. Who the hell do I think I am, to have any kind of expectations of others when I am the newcomer?

    I learned this in a white, rural, working class community that had it's share of second home rich folks, but that thrived as a farming & fishing community. After some years there, my desire to jump into community work was welcomed, because I took the time to weave myself into the existing community. That is what this article is about. Calling it racist is pure projection.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmc View Post
    Yep, it OK to have a guy dealing drugs outside your door, he's just someone who has a felony on his record and trying to support a few kids. I'm sure he can get them in the business soon enough. And folks drinking and arguing at the park are just celebrating life.

    How dare someone try and clean up the place. We should buss Iris lilies homeless to San Francisco and New York to help keep those neighborhoods in decline.
    If someone is dealing drugs, which is usually a crime of survival and addiction, the most successful interventions are not bussing them somewhere else. The most successful interventions are treatment and jobs. It's pretty shocking how little empathy you seem to feel for your fellow human beings.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by redfox View Post
    If someone is dealing drugs, which is usually a crime of survival and addiction, the most successful interventions are not bussing them somewhere else. The most successful interventions are treatment and jobs. It's pretty shocking how little empathy you seem to feel for your fellow human beings.
    The above was from the article you posted. There was no mention of intervention, just that it was normal for the neighborhood. You shouldn't change it.

    Its shocking some feel we shouldn't be changing the culture of the neighborhood.

  4. #54
    Senior Member dmc's Avatar
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    How many generations do we house and feed and keep dependent on nanny government before we accept its not working. How many people are now on food stamps or other government aid. Why is it easier for some to live off the government than get a job? Why do we encourage single mothers to have children they can't afford in the first place by giving them more aid for additional kids? Why work when no one in your community does?

    I remember the first time I went to East St. Louis. We had a job over there and I figured I'd check on it during the day when everyone was at work or school. I forgot everyday is Saturday in the Hood. Not the life I would want, but the guys hanging out outside the store and sitting on the porch seemed to be taking it easy.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmc View Post
    The above was from the article you posted. There was no mention of intervention, just that it was normal for the neighborhood.

    Its shocking some feel we shouldn't be changing the culture of the neighborhood.
    If you want to change the culture of a neighborhood, simply have some patience for awhile before you jump in and presume that your way is best. Get to know folks, listen to their stories. It's hard, in a pluralistic society, to learn to get along with people one disagrees with. I've lived in a multicultural neighborhood for 13 years, in SE Seattle, and based upon my rural community experience, I took my time getting to know folks before jumping in to suggest some changes.

    When I did decide to do some organizing, I teamed up with others, and together, we started a Community Kitchen. It took off and has thrived ever since. I know my neighbors, including the gang bangers. Because I've known them since they were very young, some toddlers, I know why they have chosen what I see is a very destructive path. However, they know I care about them as individuals.

    There are a few now teens & young adults I don't invite in anymore, but I will hang out with them and talk about their lives when we see each other at the mailbox. One young woman came to me when she was raped, because she trusted me. She was 14, and couldn't tell her family. Because I did not judge her, she got some help when she trusted me enough to tell me about the assault.

    The 21 year old who lives across the street can be scary, and his older brother tells me he has an illegal weapon under his bed. The older brother is a social worker, and is working on his brother to turn back on the gang life. I hope it works, because I've known this kid since he was 6; I used to cuddle him and read him stories in our back yard garden, feeding him strawberries. I know he remembers this too. I want him to find some hope in life, so that he turns around.

    The city prosecuting attorneys and cops I know understand that legal intervention is the LAST resort, not the first. So I continue to care for him as an older woman on his block who he's known since he can remember, asking about how he's doing, and I even told him that I want to see him box when he feels like he's ready for it. He recently took up boxing, which is a sport I just abhor, but I think it's a good thing for him, and he was really pleased that I want to support him.

    It's really worth it to take the time to get to know a place before presuming one knows better. I love my neighborhood, and I love that I am in relationship with neighbors who I see as whole people, not just poor, or thugs, or whatever your preferred racist stereotype is.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by iris lilies View Post
    to answer catherin'e question from the other thread, I would like to see far less of a concentration of homeless on the block were I work. Spread 'em around. Send some up to St. Chuck for dmc to take care of
    Your just trying to gentrify the place. You should embrace the atmosphere. The fights in the park are just the locals working things out amongst them selfs. Who are you to judge.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmc View Post
    Your just trying to gentrify the place. You should embrace the atmosphere. The fights in the park are just the locals working things out amongst them selfs. Who are you to judge.
    It's so much easier to mock and disrespect than to have a productive conversation, isn't it? How different are you from the dudes hanging out in the 'hood, that you judge?

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmc View Post
    How many generations do we house and feed and keep dependent on nanny government before we accept its not working.
    Your assumption is that if we took away all the safety nets and government support all of a sudden sick people would get better, jobs would magically appear that would fit everyone's skill level and provide them with enough income to actually pay rent, and the mentally ill and addicts would all of a sudden get with it, and employers would happily hire them. In the case of the homeless, which is what we are discussing here, there are 10 times as many homeless in the US as there are in Denmark--and guess what... Denmark also is the most socially progressive, with many social programs that the citizens are fine paying for. They have different homeless programs for different situations and they ARE working. Our situation with the homeless is not working because there aren't enough people taking the time and investment to look at the big picture, examine the root causes, and come up with housing models that actually work. If the programs aren't working, why are you blaming the people?
    "Do any human beings ever realize life while they live it--every, every minute?" Emily Webb, Our Town
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  9. #59
    Senior Member dmc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redfox View Post

    It's really worth it to take the time to get to know a place before presuming one knows better. I love my neighborhood, and I love that I am in relationship with neighbors who I see as whole people, not just poor, or thugs, or whatever your preferred racist stereotype is.
    Poor is an economic condition and a thug is a thug, has nothing to do with race. But everything is racist to some.

    And if someone wants to change a neighborhood that they move into, that is their right. As long as they are not breaking any laws. The neighbor hood may change, maybe not.

  10. #60
    Senior Member dmc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redfox View Post
    It's so much easier to mock and disrespect than to have a productive conversation, isn't it? How different are you from the dudes hanging out in the 'hood, that you judge?
    Did you read the article you posted? This is just normal behavior evidently. We shouldn't try and change it.

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