What happens when capitalism is an end in itself without a social contract?

[gimmethesimplelife]

Really? In regards to capitalism?

It seems to me that capitalism represents the best elements of personal liberty and freedom. In my view, they may be rolling over in their graves at our propensity to place the federal government and resultant bureaucracy into the country's social fabric, in many cases replacing family and community, but that's not capitalistic.

I have never felt free under US capitalism. On paper it sounds great, that much I will give you, but the reality I have experienced is without large amounts of money backing you, one is not free. Most of us live a life vulnerable to the whims of a winner takes all system that we have no real control over. I was fourteen when that one dawned on me. Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

I'm thinking the Founding Fathers are rolling over in their graves...........feeling sorta bad.......maybe saying "OMG!" or "WTF!".......

You know who I feel sorry for? The very elderly among us who fought in World War 2 and still have sharp minds. To have endured that hell, and then came home to an economy that was so much fairer that what we have today and then to see that economy morph into what we have now - I wonder if these elderly every wonder WTF did they fight for and was any of what they suffered in World War 2 worth it. I wouldn't be surprised if some of them thought that if things were going to eventually morph into this, they would have fled as to not fight in the first place. Those brave, brave souls - for them I have true sympathy. Rob

[Alan]

Capitalism has no business in areas like health care or road building (private roads, anyone?) that redound to the commons.

By capitalism, do you mean profit? If so, I'm not sure this example makes sense. Public roads are public property and the creation, maintenance & upkeep is farmed out to for profit companies. If you consider healthcare to be a public enterprise, would you take profit away from private practitioners?

[spirit]

There is quite a difference between Wired and The Wire. Your link is to information about The Wire and not Wired.

Without attention to the bottom line, we have ended up with a $17 Trillion deficit. Using just your heart can be just as dangerous as using (or not using) your brain.

There is NO substitute for individual freedom - the freedom to choose who to help and when to help. Like it or not, the individual is the sole actor.

[ApatheticNoMore]

I do not trust anyone who uses only the profit motive as his/her True North to look out for my best interests.

of course, but I'm not sure they even look after their own best interest in any way that matters (those born into it defend class interest). But middle class strivers: money is necessary, money buys advantage, if you get fantaboulsly rich it's a nice position to be in, but anyone for whom money is the main thing they want out of life is empty. Though making money may take more out of one than one likes, why would anyone choose to make money thier True North? However I doubt most people have much experience with the "people looking out for other people" thing either though. Not now.

[Alan]

I have never felt free under US capitalism. On paper it sounds great, that much I will give you, but the reality I have experienced is without large amounts of money backing you, one is not free. Most of us live a life vulnerable to the whims of a winner takes all system that we have no real control over. I was fourteen when that one dawned on me. Rob

The fault is not with capitalism. You have more control, and its corresponding responsibility, than you take credit for.

I believe capitalism has brought more people out of poverty and oppression than any other economic system, although I'm open to arguments otherwise.

[flowerseverywhere]

I have always felt my life here in the us has given me the most freedom I could ever have attained in the world. Despite growing up in foster care, being mixed race and female I was able to become educated and with my natural subs we were all lifted out of poverty. At one time a sister and I shared a rented room, worked full time in a nursing home and went to nursing school. Then we helped support a younger sis so she could do the same. The brothers helped each other and us. We limited family size, not one of us had an unintended pregnancy and none of us have depended on the federal government but have paid taxes all these years. Maybe some if the european
countries. But I do know I am thankful for the opportunities here

[gimmethesimplelife]

The fault is not with capitalism. You have more control, and its corresponding responsibility, than you take credit for.

I believe capitalism has brought more people out of poverty and oppression than any other economic system, although I'm open to arguments otherwise.

I might have had more leanings towards this view had not NAFTA and other free trade agreements taken place that helped escalate the fleeing of mid wage, middle class jobs to countries with lower wages and fewer regulations. What control do I have over this reality? I'm all ears on this one. Rob

[redfox]

If you consider healthcare to be a public enterprise, would you take profit away from private practitioners?

Yes, a not-for-profit health care system would be the most accessible & effective for all, in my opinion. Many folks think not-for-profits don't or cannot make a profit; that's not the case. Profits are necessary in the NFP sector to reinvest in the enterprise. NFP's can pay a living wage, though some still live in the 19th century and the Lady Bountiful, doing good is all that matters backwards mindset. Professionally competitive wages are now the norm for larger and more mature, stable NFP's. (I'm working on moving that one forward at my own workplace!)

The differences between the for-profit sector & NFP sector are these (not an exhaustive list) -- NFP's have their mission as the driving principle, FP's have profit & shareholder benefit, if publicly traded, as their driving principle. Each has a role in a democratic society, and the driving principle organizes the activities of the enterprise. NFP's reinvest their proceeds back into the organization to better meet the mission. FP's also often reinvest in their operations, again to the end of making more money, not of serving the community.

NFP's also have tax advantages. In return for paying no business taxes, they must demonstrate that they create a community benefit. This is very important, and one of the gold standards by which NFP's must be held accountable. It's why the Board of a NFP is so important, and why those on the Board are held personally liable for the NFP's fiduciary health & behavior. FP's pay a range of taxes; IMO, small businesses pay too much, while large corporations generally pay not enough. These taxes are how a public good is realized from privately held profits.

I definitely believe that a healthy mature society must work towards a balance of private, for-profit enterprises, private, not-for-profit enterprises, and public enterprise. Since I believe that human society is strongest when organized around meeting the needs of all, basic human needs should not be met in the FP sector. These should be met in a combination of NFP's and public sector organizations. I definitely want the FP sector to work to provide for the luxuries of our society, and to be free to make a profit within the constraints of the law.

I've been a small business owner, worked for small businesses, for state government, and for the NFP sector. Each has something to contribute to the well-being of our communities and our overall social health.

[gimmethesimplelife]

I have always felt my life here in the us has given me the most freedom I could ever have attained in the world. Despite growing up in foster care, being mixed race and female I was able to become educated and with my natural subs we were all lifted out of poverty. At one time a sister and I shared a rented room, worked full time in a nursing home and went to nursing school. Then we helped support a younger sis so she could do the same. The brothers helped each other and us. We limited family size, not one of us had an unintended pregnancy and none of us have depended on the federal government but have paid taxes all these years. Maybe some if the european
countries. But I do know I am thankful for the opportunities here

There were some good years here, I won't deny that at all. I'm glad you had the chance to achieve what you did and more power to you. I mean that sincerely. OTOH, try pulling off what you have described above today in this Darwinistic economy. A scattered few here and there may just pull it off - but the majority? I don't have much faith that your experiences can be had with hard work and determination in this economy we have now. Rob