Do We Need It or Do We Just THINK We Need It?

[mira]

These are the sort of things I think about every day. I'm glad you started this thread, Catherine!

[Bronxboy]

I feel like our "needs" have risen exponentially over the past century, and I wonder if we really NEED certain things like:

• Health Insurance: OK that's a biggie, but keep in mind that there was no such thing before the Industrial Age, when employers started offering it as a "perk" Now, everyone HAS to have it--and the taxpayers have to support it--which is fine, but are we entitled to everything? And can't we invest more in prevention than treatment? When no one is taking money out of their pockets to pay for this stuff, the cost will inflate ad infinitum
• A million in the bank before you retire: Another myth, I think. Why? Why is the paradigm save a million and live off the interest and then leave the principal to your heirs? Can't there be another paradigm, like just keep busy and earn your keep as you go?
  

Health care is clearly just another bubble in the U.S., just like enclosed shopping malls, vinyl sided exurban houses, tech stocks, and now gold. We are spending at least twice as much as necessary, and receiving at least 50% more treatment as is beneficial.

As far as paying as you go, the million dollar thing is overstated if one can get past 65 before retiring, and can live in paid-for housing with moderate maintenance and tax costs. But pay as you go requires someone willing to provide the income, either through a job or buying your wares in a business. The reality of age discrimination is that every dollar earned after 60 has to be considered as a bonus.

[ApatheticNoMore]

Health care is clearly just another bubble in the U.S., just like enclosed shopping malls, vinyl sided exurban houses, tech stocks, and now gold. We are spending at least twice as much as necessary, and receiving at least 50% more treatment as is beneficial.

Things are over-prescribed, but as an individual there really isn't much one can do about it (one can choose to invest or not invest in gold or to buy a house or just rent a place, but to choose not to have healthcare is to risk bankruptcy as health issues are the leading cause of bankruptcy in this country).

You may take very little in the way of prescriptions yourself and not even believe in them and yet you are still going to pay a high rate for health insurance (for all of those who do take dozens of prescriptions I suppose, and aren't yet on medicare). A doctor was arguing that the threshold for which we diagnose disease has just shifted too low, and it's probably true. High cholesterol, high blood pressure, high blood sugar are diagnosed at lower thresholds than they used to be apparently.

The reality of age discrimination is that every dollar earned after 60 has to be considered as a bonus.

After 50 is much more honest. In fact they have workshops here on how to get a job AFTER 45, despite age discrimination!!!! I wish I was making this up, 45 ..... and you are way over the hill to think you can still work!!

So I suppose the only realistic idea for most people (whose initial incomes aren't even that high) would be to save enough to support yourself entirely on your savings for 12 years (from 50 to 62) and then throw yourself entirely on the mercy of the social security system after that .

[Zoebird]

Health care is a leading cause of bankruptcy in the US in part because of what insurance doesn't cover. For example, a friend of mine had excellent health care coverage for her family. They were self employed, and invested in a good plan. Their daughter was diagnosed with cancer, and their insurance covered about 1/3 of the care. They then were able to take out specialized insurance, which covered the other 1/3 of care. What remained was 1/3 that they got covered through government programs, their own savings, and donations from friends and family. Thankfully, the child lives and is doing very well.

The reality of this situation on them was immense. THey had 3 other children, who had hte normal health concerns, btu all of the insurance coverage was covering their one child. Everything else was out-of-pocket. They sold their house and moved in with family (luckily, my friend's mother had a larger home with a smaller "guest house" -- and so "grandma and grandpa" moved into the guest house and gave the house over to the family). It was paid for, so it was economical for them. Her husband continued to run his own business, and luckily the grandparents could care for the other two children while mom was with the sick child at the children's hospital for most of the year.

As it was, their *barely* avoided bankruptcy. Everyone was working as hard as possible to make life work for them -- I even gave free yoga lessons to the whole family both in their home and in the hospital -- just to make sure that their emotional needs were getting met amidst all the strain that this level of illness brings.

Most of the people who are bankrupt due to medical bills are in these sorts of situations -- either not covered or undercovered, or simply in dire straights health wise. And it's *tragic.*

In socialized health care systems, there are major issues, but one benefit is that people aren't going bankrupt due to lack of health care. This is partly why I moved to a nation with socialized health care. I know we'll be taken care of -- in the event of an emergency or major health concern. And of course, we do everything we can to prevent such things.

[catherine]

A doctor was arguing that the threshold for which we diagnose disease has just shifted too low, and it's probably true. High cholesterol, high blood pressure, high blood sugar are diagnosed at lower thresholds than they used to be apparently.

Guidelines are very often driven by pharmaceutical companies. For instance, it was a major pharma company coming out with a new class of antihypertensive who set the blood pressure guidelines at normal=140/90 and got the medical community to adopt that. Now the numbers are even lower. All of these "syndromes"? Labels made up by the pharmaceutical companies, ready with a solution to the "problem" that they made up.

[flowerseverywhere]

A lot less of us would need far less health care if the emphasis was on eating right, stress management and exercise. When I got to be in my late forties, my annual blood tests showed my cholesterol rising and my BP was too. Instead of counseling me on my diet and changes I could make they wrote prescriptions. I saw another doctor at a later date in the practice who did just that, but by that time I had pretty much figured it out and was able to go off medications. So if you watch what you eat, and can get three or four days of intense cardio and do strength training or yoga and some balance exercises you can be good to go without meds in most cases.
many of my friends are on hormone replacement and anti-depressants. they are also overprescribed in my opinion.

I will say I was very thankful for my health insurance when DH fell on the ice and had emergency surgery and a few weeks later was diagnosed with cancer. Luckily, he is extremely healthy now and is very strict about his diet and exercise but I can't imagine what would have happened if we had to pay for all his care out of pocket. I don't think I would be in my paid for house right now.

I am guilty of living in a larger house than I need (although when the kids were home it was just right), having way too many clothes and other stuff. And we barely shop except in the grocery store, but somehow stuff accumulates. If we could only get our families to listen and not give us gifts we would be better off. I tell them to donate to their church, animal shelter, vet association but they can't help themselves.

I grow way more vegetables than we can eat and store but people love to see me coming in the summer and fall with baskets of food.

[Spartana]

But, if we didn't have internet access at home, how would we talk about what we don't need?

I'm at the lovely ginormous library located in an even loverlier city park overlooking a duck pond full of canadian geese, some kind of giant white geese, and everyother bird imaginable (OK no swans but a big osprey nest with babies about to fly and hawks and even parrots). Typing away at you via the free wi-fi. Went for a run in the park, had dinner in the library cafe, and returned some books and DVDs I borrowed over the weekend. So basicly I do without alot of those things at home and use other resources like the library. And if the library wasn't available I'd be happy to dump the computer and go internet-less. I've done it for long periods of time before and really enjoyed it (after the horrible withdrawls stopped that is :-)!).

As far as what I need, well it's not much. I live where it's temperate so don't need A/C or even heat. I don't have cable so no TV (have a TV but no reception, and DVD player but could do without them). I don't have a CD player or any kind of music player or cds because I'm pretty much deaf and can't hear much even with my hearing aids so music just sounds aweful (can use the closed captioning when watching movies). Really don't need a cell phone as I use it only for emergencies but do need my landline (cheaper and with a special set up for the hard of hearing). Need running water and a flush toilet. A few hundred bucks a mnonth (around $500 - $700) to cover all my basic expenses (no millions needed here). A small house for me and the critters. Don't need a car as I can ride my bike or rent when I need a vehicle. Don't need any entertainment as I have a ton of free or inexpensive hobbies I do. just need some basic clothes - shorts, tee shirts and running and hiking shoes. Umm... I think that's it. Oh yeah, and health care of course. Can get free thru the VA but would buy a policy if I didn't have that even though I'm very healthy and fit. Good health and fitness isn't going to do me a lick of good in a car accident. Afew years ago I injured my knee playing volleyball and had to have several surguries, months in rehab and what would have been an unbelievably high medical bill that would have been in the hundreds of thousands or more. But because i had good health insurance thru my work at the time I only had a small co-pay. I was also able to have a sports medicine specialest along with the regular surgeon and there fore was not only able to walk again, but able to play sports again (although not at the same level as before). So don't discount the need for health insurance becauser you eat your fruits and veggies and do yoga, something as simple as a fall in the tub can cause you to need VERY costly medical care.

[flowerseverywhere]

So don't discount the need for health insurance becauser you eat your fruits and veggies and do yoga, something as simple as a fall in the tub can cause you to need VERY costly medical care.

that is what I was trying to say as well, I hope it didn't come across as something else. I do think though that we all would have lower premiums if our lifestyle was different and we'd feel better as a society all over the world.

[ApatheticNoMore]

On the other hand internet is dirt cheap. It is currently costing me under $16 a month for DSL. Now that may adjust upward some after a year so it's more like $22 a month. But that is still less than my landline phone with NO long distance absolute minimum base plan costs (it is over $30 a month with all the taxes, talk about a rip off).

[Bronxboy]

Things are over-prescribed, but as an individual there really isn't much one can do about it (one can choose to invest or not invest in gold or to buy a house or just rent a place, but to choose not to have healthcare is to risk bankruptcy as health issues are the leading cause of bankruptcy in this country).

The answer for somebody who is a health care skeptic is probably to take a high-deductible insurance plan. My wife's experience with chronic illness pushes me further in that direction every day. Every specialist pokes and prods on their little part, and nobody looks at the big picture.

After 50 is much more honest. In fact they have workshops here on how to get a job AFTER 45, despite age discrimination!!!! I wish I was making this up, 45 ..... and you are way over the hill to think you can still work!! .

I was going to suggest a lower age, but had the easiest job search of my career at just shy of 50.