Hunting

[catherine]

We all live by killing. Even the strictest vegan eats food grown on land taken from other species’ habitat. If you’re alive, it’s at the expense of other life.

I'm not talking about the ends.. I said in the OP that small fish are eaten by big fish and that is the way of life.

I'm talking about the means. I'm talking about how most people will breeze through a McDonald's and mindlessly eat a burger in their car without seeing the suffering of the cow that paid for it's life with $1.39 fast food. I'm talking about how, years ago, as many here have attested via their own histories, hunting was the way to feed a family. There is a relationship between the hunter and the hunted. Today, that relationship is gone. We call chunks of animal flesh "meat." We champion the lives of horses and dogs because we think they are cute, noble creatures, but animals with similar degrees of sentience are anonymous resources for the bacon on our plate. I'm talking about how there is a difference in the intention and the awareness one used to bring to this relationship between prey and predator, and civilization has quashed that. I don't even say grace anymore to thank the animals for the gift of their lives for my sustenance.

So it's about the fact, and the contradiction, that I am revolted by a bear kill by a young man, but I'm not revolted enough by the suffering of animals in factory farms. It raises questions to me about a civilized, modern consumerist life that has robbed me of the intimacy of the dance of life and death. Again, this is a personal reflection. I am not judging anyone else's thoughts and feelings.

[ApatheticNoMore]

If the bear isn't being eaten, and bear populations do not need managing, I can't see how killing the bear isn't even more gratuitous than going to megalomart and buying some beef to make burgers.

[catherine]

If the bear isn't being eaten, and bear populations do not need managing, I can't see how killing the bear isn't even more gratuitous than going to megalomart and buying some beef to make burgers.

You are absolutely right. I'm talking about hunting for food only.

[Rogar]

We all live by killing. Even the strictest vegan eats food grown on land taken from other species’ habitat. If you’re alive, it’s at the expense of other life.

It seems obvious to me that there is a large difference between killing a hog for meat and harvesting spinach, although I'm not sure I could make a reasonable argument out of it. Maybe less of a difference between killing a rat and a garden weed.

[catherine]

It seems obvious to me that there is a large difference between killing a hog for meat and harvesting spinach, although I'm not sure I could make a reasonable argument out of it. Maybe less of a difference between killing a rat and a garden weed.

Peter Singer made a distinction in his book Animal Liberation between sentient and non-sentient beings. Of course, that's a fuzzy line, too, and he wrote the book quite a while ago and now you could probably get people to say that grass suffers when we mow it, but I think in general, there is a continuum of sentience. When I was vegetarian, I would be fine eating clams, for instance.

[happystuff]

. Of course, that's a fuzzy line, too, and he wrote the book quite a while ago and now you could probably get people to say that grass suffers when we mow it, but I think in general, there is a continuum of sentience.

I have several botanist/biology educated family members who say that, yes, plants live and die, they "feel" and demonstrate responses to surrounding stimuli. Example - when you are cooking up those veggies and get the wonderful smells/aromas - that is the plant screaming as it dies. (something along those lines).

[ToomuchStuff]

A lot happened that I never went hunting (friend that was going to take me, died six months later of cancer, and a lot more, uglier stuff).
But I have been at family dinners where we had wild turkey, or deer chili, etc. I even have bought a deer rifle, but have no place to hunt (this is a big thing, because most have locations they go, with permission). A couple years ago, there was a disease that infected the deer population in MO, that several processors, were going to shut down for risk of contamination. Don't see enough people now, to know if they are back open or not.
Late boss, had property two miles from Ruby Ridge, backing to a national forest. Bears came through a couple of times and tore up the property (from knocking a big propane tank off, to trying to get into the house). I would have no issue with it if the bear were too close to your property (kids, animals, etc).

[bae]

For years, I only ate meat/fish that I had harvested myself, as I had limited access to ethically-produced meat.

Where I live now, I have better supply lines for meat. I don't hunt much here, even through there are so many deer that I often have to use the horn on the car to get out of my driveway to disperse the herd. The deer here are generally just too small to bother with butchering.

I do dispense with mice and rats that make it inside the house. Spiders get to remain.

I also have some acreage in vineyards, which I have been involved with for 20 years. There is a lot of killing involved raising grapes, even in our organic, salmon-safe, sustainable practice. I suspect that some people don't understand that simply raising crops requires slaughtering critters, or displacing them from their habitat.