This is dark and possibly upsetting

[pinkytoe]

Going back to original problem, adolescent suicide is indeed very depressing. That the next generation has so little hope should be as important an issue as dealing with other huge crises. I have an acquaintance here who is similarly troubled by it and her "contribution" was to become a CASA volunteer. It has given her an inside view to the troubled lives so many of these young people are dealing with. I don't know what the answer is but to me it is truly a sign of societal/cultural dysfunction.

[Gardnr]

Here is what is happening in 1 Northwest University: https://broncosports.com/news/2019/9...roncobold.aspx I think it is a fantastic beginning with the 18-23yo population.

High school tool available:
https://www.sprc.org/resources-progr...-signs-suicide

https://save.org/for-students/

https://depts.washington.edu/nwbfch/...ide-prevention

Google is full of tools and ideas!

[catherine]

I can understand how being told to go to therapy or take meds (although I think people were mostly suggesting the former) could be offensive. I don't default to therapy because it's not a solution I've personally found helpful. Other people have. I might truly believe as good a resources (such as books and support groups) are available for free or cheap as spending a fortune on therapy. I don't think there are necessarily better answers in therapy than in a free support group. Others have other experiences.

My criticism of therapy is also that it never addressed the problems I wanted addressed. But those problems have to be in some theoretical possibility addressable as well, one can't demand the impossible.

I think a good therapist can guide you out of your "reality,' which may be distorted because you are bound to one set of thoughts and feelings that are causing you pain. We tend to put a lot of weight on what we perceive to be the reality of our situation, and until someone gives us a different window, our "reality" will be our framework. I've had therapists who were able to allow me to see that what I perceived to be true were not.

[ApatheticNoMore]

I think a good therapist can guide you out of your "reality,' which may be distorted because you are bound to one set of thoughts and feelings that are causing you pain. We tend to put a lot of weight on what we perceive to be the reality of our situation, and until someone gives us a different window, our "reality" will be our framework. I've had therapists who were able to allow me to see that what I perceived to be true were not.

yea I never actually came to share their values and worldview though, heaven knows they tried to make me and at times I tried to make myself. And eventually it was freeing just not to have to police my thoughts anymore, so they are bad thoughts, sinful thoughts, oh sorry that's old school, new school: "irrational thoughts". Well devil may care, I don't!

There may be very specific reasons why it didn't work, most of the therapists I worked with were male, maybe the gender gap was unbridgeable. They were usually older, maybe the generation gap was unbridgeable (ok boomers ). Yea yea we perceive reality from our vantage right. Noone has a lock on reality on many things, yea sure if we are talking a scientific question there is having more and less evidence of course, but on values and stuff oh boy ...

[SteveinMN]

I think a good therapist can guide you out of your "reality,' which may be distorted because you are bound to one set of thoughts and feelings that are causing you pain. We tend to put a lot of weight on what we perceive to be the reality of our situation, and until someone gives us a different window, our "reality" will be our framework. I've had therapists who were able to allow me to see that what I perceived to be true were not.

This was one place where I was getting stuck. I like to look at the world in an analytical, logical fashion. Always worked for me before. But the world just laughs at that, especially lately. My counselor identified that several situations in my life, unrelated by people or time, actually had similar roots. It was an "aha" moment for me and made it possible for me to realize several truths about the particular family situation I was in, as well as others. It didn't hurt that my counselor also went on and on about self-worth, which I have for a long time discounted. But that fit into this main situation as well. Counseling made a huge difference for me.

I understand others have not had good results with counseling. There are cr2ppy counselors out there. There are impediments to doing the work. My ex-wife had such prior bad experience with counseling that she did not want to go to marriage counseling until I announced that, if we didn't go together, I was going by myself -- and leaving the marriage anyway. She went -- but refused to participate. I guess counseling didn't work for her then, either.

Despite Chicken Lady's protests, those of us who did recommend counseling did it out of caring and positive personal experience. It saddens me that CL seems to have interpreted the (maybe sometimes strong) suggestions as either a mandate or as evidence of not listening to her. But I think many of us have walked down roads similar to the one she's walking down now and having a neutral party to speak with made a big difference. We each make our choices and have to make them in our own time. No offense meant, CL, and I hope you find what you're looking for somewhere.


To the many who commented positively on my pulling back from the brink, thank you! When I started writing to-do lists and figuring out better dates and times for it, I realized I needed more help than I could muster within myself. I went to counseling grudgingly. I do not regret it; nor do my wife or my grandkids or my friends. I never want to see anyone else think that checking out is their only way out. That may not be pertinent to CL's situation, but that grind can get to ya and it creates a reality of its own. Thankfully, those days are behind me.

[beckyliz]

Don't discount drugs. I understand your experience with the narcotics. I'm not a pharmacist or a medical person at all, but I would think there are drugs out there that can help you without you becoming addicted to them. I understand you want to heal the underlying cause. Sometimes we have to remove some of the pain so we can rest and heal, not just physically, but also mentally, emotionally and spiritually. Please reach out for help. If that doesn't work, reach out again.

[Chicken lady]

I lost my post switching pages, so I am sorry, but I will serial post. I have been away from the internet all day.

happystuff, I cannot read the article, and I would like to, because it looks like one of the tools I am looking for. An answer to How do you make it stop hurting and if you don’t, how do you live like a normal person anyway?"

How to still love them, still be open to them, and treat them with compassion without being overloaded by the waves of empathy until I am no good to anyone.

and I led with the pain because the pain is what us driving me to seek answers. The feeling that I am not doing all that I can for these kids because I need more tools. But the solution to that is tools, or new ways to find tools, or perhaps re happystuff, different ways to USE the tools.

Catherine, i said I clearly can not communicate with most of you. That is on me. It is also not the first time. The only way I see to make it the last us to stop talking - speaking of which, Jane and IL, amen.

[Chicken lady]

Tybee,

the art therapy idea is interesting. I have a feeling I end up doing some of that informally in my studio class. But while full scale returning to school is not in the cards, seeking out more information on how to incorporate some of that appropriately in proven ways would not be a bad idea.

[Chicken lady]

Gardnr,

i skimmed over some of your stuff and will go back. It is good. My problem is that I am prohibited from implementing programs like that or sharing a lot of that information because I am officially unqualified and I spend time with my kids in a professional setting. If anyone is going to make a decision to make information like a suicide hotline available, it would have to be the not-very-good at her job, but slowly (so d@mn slowly) getting better guidance counselor. I am not helpful if I get fired. And no I can’t share the resources with her and suggest she implement them because she is still too insecure and protective of her domain. She will get defensive and offended and then verbally pat me in the head and suggest I stick to art. Been there. Recently.

i May be too analytical and logical, but the idea of someone guiding me out of my reality.... two of my kids studied education. My son was in a class in which his professor said “if your students are not paying attention and connecting with the lesson that is your fault and you need to change the way you are presenting the material.” And my son raised his hand and said “or maybe they can’t engage because their gunshot wound reopened and they are bleeding through their shirt. That happened to my sister (who was student teaching) last week.”

my reality is the gunshot wound. I’m not sure how guiding me to the other frame of reference is going to help the kid who is bleeding.

on a final note, today I asked a woman I love and who loves me and has known me for 22 years and who incidentally recently started medication for depression that has improved her life if she thinks I could possibly be depressed and might benefit from therapy or medication. And she laughed out loud. She said “you are sad because of sad things. And you are angry because you have an overdeveloped sense of righteousness. But you are definitely not depressed.

[Gardnr]

Gardnr,

i skimmed over some of your stuff and will go back. It is good. My problem is that I am prohibited from implementing programs like that or sharing a lot of that information because I am officially unqualified and I spend time with my kids in a professional setting. If anyone is going to make a decision to make information like a suicide hotline available, it would have to be the not-very-good at her job, but slowly (so d@mn slowly) getting better guidance counselor. I am not helpful if I get fired. And no I can’t share the resources with her and suggest she implement them because she is still too insecure and protective of her domain. She will get defensive and offended and then verbally pat me in the head and suggest I stick to art. Been there. Recently.

I would most definitely be making up those poster type pages announcing the resources available, with the tear off tags with phone numbers. Discreetly post in bathrooms and everywhere else a thumbtack works. It doesn't take a counseling education to post a piece of paper. That way you are in no way providing verbal information/guidance to anyone. An interested party has to get it for themselves.