Social media really can help society.....

[bae]

I wish we were both standing in front of Salt Lake City nurse Alex Wubblels so that we could get her take on your comment.......Rob

What grievous harm did she suffer? Was she injured? Imprisoned falsely for some length of time?

Or was she arrested for a short period of time, and then released without being booked? What are the specific damages there?

Now, it did appear she was resisting the arrest. If it was an unlawful arrest, then she has some rights to resist, but this is typically not a winning move. However, arresting officers should be well aware of the law...

“Citizens may resist unlawful arrest to the point of taking an arresting officer's life if necessary.” Plummer v. State, 136 Ind. 306.

“Where the officer is killed in the course of the disorder which naturally accompanies an attempted arrest that is resisted, the law looks with very different eyes upon the transaction, when the officer had the right to make the arrest, from what it does if the officer had no right. What may be murder in the first case might be nothing more than manslaughter in the other, or the facts might show that no offense had been committed.” John Bad Elk v. U.S., 177 U.S. 529

“An arrest made with a defective warrant, or one issued without affidavit, or one that fails to allege a crime is within jurisdiction, and one who is being arrested, may resist arrest and break away. lf the arresting officer is killed by one who is so resisting, the killing will be no more than an involuntary manslaughter.” Housh v. People, 75 111. 491

“When a person, being without fault, is in a place where he has a right to be, is violently assaulted, he may, without retreating, repel by force, and if, in the reasonable exercise of his right of self defense, his assailant is killed, he is justified.” Runyan v. State, 57 Ind. 80; Miller v. State, 74 Ind. 1.

“These principles apply as well to an officer attempting to make an arrest, who abuses his authority and transcends the bounds thereof by the use of unnecessary force and violence, as they do to a private individual who unlawfully uses such force and violence.” Jones v. State, 26 Tex. App. I; Beaverts v. State, 4 Tex. App. 1 75; Skidmore v. State, 43 Tex. 93, 903.

“An illegal arrest is an assault and battery. The person so attempted to be restrained of his liberty has the same right to use force in defending himself as he would in repelling any other assault and battery.” (State v. Robinson, 145 ME. 77, 72 ATL. 260).

“Each person has the right to resist an unlawful arrest. In such a case, the person attempting the arrest stands in the position of a wrongdoer and may be resisted by the use of force, as in self- defense.” (State v. Mobley, 240 N.C. 476, 83 S.E. 2d 100).

“One may come to the aid of another being unlawfully arrested, just as he may where one is being assaulted, molested, raped or kidnapped. Thus it is not an offense to liberate one from the unlawful custody of an officer, even though he may have submitted to such custody, without resistance.” (Adams v. State, 121 Ga. 16, 48 S.E. 910).

[gimmethesimplelife]

I think if she read this thread she would probably agree with me.

I very much doubt such. Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

What grievous harm did she suffer? Was she injured? Imprisoned falsely for some length of time?

Or was she arrested for a short period of time, and then released without being booked? What are the specific damages there?

Now, it did appear she was resisting the arrest. If it was an unlawful arrest, then she has some rights to resist, but this is typically not a winning move. However, arresting officers should be well aware of the law...

“Citizens may resist unlawful arrest to the point of taking an arresting officer's life if necessary.” Plummer v. State, 136 Ind. 306.

“Where the officer is killed in the course of the disorder which naturally accompanies an attempted arrest that is resisted, the law looks with very different eyes upon the transaction, when the officer had the right to make the arrest, from what it does if the officer had no right. What may be murder in the first case might be nothing more than manslaughter in the other, or the facts might show that no offense had been committed.” John Bad Elk v. U.S., 177 U.S. 529

“An arrest made with a defective warrant, or one issued without affidavit, or one that fails to allege a crime is within jurisdiction, and one who is being arrested, may resist arrest and break away. lf the arresting officer is killed by one who is so resisting, the killing will be no more than an involuntary manslaughter.” Housh v. People, 75 111. 491

“When a person, being without fault, is in a place where he has a right to be, is violently assaulted, he may, without retreating, repel by force, and if, in the reasonable exercise of his right of self defense, his assailant is killed, he is justified.” Runyan v. State, 57 Ind. 80; Miller v. State, 74 Ind. 1.

“These principles apply as well to an officer attempting to make an arrest, who abuses his authority and transcends the bounds thereof by the use of unnecessary force and violence, as they do to a private individual who unlawfully uses such force and violence.” Jones v. State, 26 Tex. App. I; Beaverts v. State, 4 Tex. App. 1 75; Skidmore v. State, 43 Tex. 93, 903.

“An illegal arrest is an assault and battery. The person so attempted to be restrained of his liberty has the same right to use force in defending himself as he would in repelling any other assault and battery.” (State v. Robinson, 145 ME. 77, 72 ATL. 260).

“Each person has the right to resist an unlawful arrest. In such a case, the person attempting the arrest stands in the position of a wrongdoer and may be resisted by the use of force, as in self- defense.” (State v. Mobley, 240 N.C. 476, 83 S.E. 2d 100).

“One may come to the aid of another being unlawfully arrested, just as he may where one is being assaulted, molested, raped or kidnapped. Thus it is not an offense to liberate one from the unlawful custody of an officer, even though he may have submitted to such custody, without resistance.” (Adams v. State, 121 Ga. 16, 48 S.E. 910).

Bae, please rewatch the video. It is clear that Jeff Payne broke the law and assaulted Alex Wubbels and it's also clear that Wubbels is terrified but also not resisting arrest. Your post above very much scares me and shows why anyone behind a badge can not be trusted in America.

Good news though....Detective Jeff Payne has given a large cross section of America a reality check as to the nasty reality of US citizenship much better than I ever could. I suppose for this, sick and twisted though his illegal actions are, I should thank him. Going forward the police are going to find the general public yet more hostile and non-cooperative and in my own small way, I hope to continue being a part of this in the name of human rights, human dignity, and respect for the rule of law. Rob

[bae]

Bae, please rewatch the video. It is clear that Jeff Payne broke the law and assaulted Alex Wubbels and it's also clear that Wubbels is terrified but also not resisting arrest.

You can't ascertain "broke the law" and "assaulted" purely from the context available in this tape:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yia7qs01z1M

However, at 6:20, the officer says "we're done, you're under arrest". And you can see her evading his grasp. That appears to be "resisting arrest".

She has an out if the officer in fact is carrying out an unlawful arrest. The model jury instructions in this state for resisting arrest charges state:

To convict the defendant of the crime of resisting arrest, each of the following elements of the crime must be proved beyond a reasonable doubt:

(1) That on or about(date), the defendant prevented or attempted to prevent a peace officer from arresting [him] [her];

(2) That the defendant acted intentionally;

(3) That the arrest or attempt to arrest was lawful; and

(4) That any of these acts occurred in the [State of Washington] [City of ] [County of ].

If you find from the evidence that each of these elements has been proved beyond a reasonable doubt, then it will be your duty to return a verdict of guilty.

On the other hand, if, after weighing all of the evidence, you have a reasonable doubt as to any one of these elements, then it will be your duty to return a verdict of not guilty.

Your post above very much scares me and shows why anyone behind a badge can not be trusted in America.

I'm puzzled how my post scares you.

Going forward the police are going to find the general public yet more hostile and non-cooperative ...

Wow.

So anyways, I'll ask again, what grievous harm did she suffer?

[Ultralight]

... the nasty reality of US citizenship...

Dude. Your belly is full. You have a job. You were able to marry your husband. You have food, clothing, shelter. You have access to more healthcare and it is more affordable than almost anywhere on the African continent for example.

You have free speech to protest and say totally off-base things without getting "disappeared."

America has its problems. It really does! But keep some perspective here. Okay?

I am a critic of America too -- because I want things to improve, like you probably do. I am still aware though of how good I have it compared to so many other people in so many other nations.

I have food, clothing, shelter, healthcare, and at the moment I even have access to tuition-free higher education at a major university. I have many civil liberties unimaginable to North Koreans. I eat meals daily that would make most any citizen of Swaziland's head spin. I have gotten healthcare that would look like magic to the impoverished sex worker in Bangladesh. My apartment is glorious and fancy in the eyes of someone from Honduras (with my indoor toilet, shower, dishwasher, clothes washer/dryer, etc.)

Wake the F--- UP, Rob!

[goldensmom]

Rob, please, for your own mental health, stop obsessing. Turn away from the news for a few weeks, read a good book on gardening, plants, animals, etc.., take a long walk and look at the sky. If you can’t change the world around you, you can change how you view the world around you. Cleanse your mind and yes, you can do it if you are determined to do so. Find a glass half full on which to focus. I promise you will be happier.

[LDAHL]

Good news though....Detective Jeff Payne has given a large cross section of America a reality check as to the nasty reality of US citizenship much better than I ever could. I suppose for this, sick and twisted though his illegal actions are, I should thank him. Going forward the police are going to find the general public yet more hostile and non-cooperative and in my own small way, I hope to continue being a part of this in the name of human rights, human dignity, and respect for the rule of law. Rob

I doubt a large cross section of America (or even your zip code) gave much thought at all to this incident. I very much doubt it will change the general public's attitude toward the police at all. I think you're attaching way too much importance to isolated incidents and snippets of video, and fitting them into a preconceived narrative. We're probably all guilty of that to some extent, but this seems on the extreme side.

[gimmethesimplelife]

You can't ascertain "broke the law" and "assaulted" purely from the context available in this tape:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yia7qs01z1M

However, at 6:20, the officer says "we're done, you're under arrest". And you can see her evading his grasp. That appears to be "resisting arrest".

She has an out if the officer in fact is carrying out an unlawful arrest. The model jury instructions in this state for resisting arrest charges state:

To convict the defendant of the crime of resisting arrest, each of the following elements of the crime must be proved beyond a reasonable doubt:

(1) That on or about(date), the defendant prevented or attempted to prevent a peace officer from arresting [him] [her];

(2) That the defendant acted intentionally;

(3) That the arrest or attempt to arrest was lawful; and

(4) That any of these acts occurred in the [State of Washington] [City of ] [County of ].

If you find from the evidence that each of these elements has been proved beyond a reasonable doubt, then it will be your duty to return a verdict of guilty.

On the other hand, if, after weighing all of the evidence, you have a reasonable doubt as to any one of these elements, then it will be your duty to return a verdict of not guilty.



I'm puzzled how my post scares you.



Wow.

So anyways, I'll ask again, what grievous harm did she suffer?

She suffered humiliation and she suffered never seeing America or the police the same way again - as she said, the police will have work to regain her trust. It currently no longer exists. She also suffered by being illegally assaulted for no reason whatsoever at her place of work - something she'll never be able to recover from given that she is a human being. As to why your post is scary - it's simple. The mentality you are displaying seeks to minimize any illegal behavior of this out of control officer and seeks to find excuses for his behavior instead of meting out punishment for his behavior of abuse of power conferred by his badge, which he will hopefully soon be losing.

Many people in the 85006 are advocating for life imprisonment with no chance of parole (for criminal Jeff Payne). I personally believe this might be slightly extreme - I'd be more comfortable with a thirty year sentence myself, giving him a chance to see the light of day once again as an old man - but I can understand why so many people want him locked away for life with no chance of getting out. Scum like that weakens and ruins society but fraying the thin veneer of civility that society depends on to keep functioning - he abused the powers that his badge confers by conducting an illegal assault upon an innocent citizen - anything less than 20 years of imprisonment with no chance of parole is a mockery of the rule of law and proves to each and every US citizen and legal permanent resident that the rule of law and human rights mean nothing in America, and that laws are not applied evenly and that the police are above the law. These are not lessons that bode well for US Society and with your life experience, Bae, I'd think you'd know this. Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

I doubt a large cross section of America (or even your zip code) gave much thought at all to this incident. I very much doubt it will change the general public's attitude toward the police at all. I think you're attaching way too much importance to isolated incidents and snippets of video, and fitting them into a preconceived narrative. We're probably all guilty of that to some extent, but this seems on the extreme side.

This incident is receiving a great deal of attention through the social classes and is generating a great deal of public discussion. Denying this is not going to change this - but the good news is that perhaps due to intense public anger, hatred, and distrust of the police - perhaps the police will be forced to knuckle under to the rule of law and conduct themselves as if not above the law? More and more people have had their fill of police abuses of power and police brutality and more and more people are willing to stand up to the police now as all trust and respect for them are thankfully long gone......I await changes in policing with joy. It's long overdue. Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

Rob, please, for your own mental health, stop obsessing. Turn away from the news for a few weeks, read a good book on gardening, plants, animals, etc.., take a long walk and look at the sky. If you can’t change the world around you, you can change how you view the world around you. Cleanse your mind and yes, you can do it if you are determined to do so. Find a glass half full on which to focus. I promise you will be happier.

I see your point and I don't disagree with you entirely - my take though is more that if I look the other way, knowing what I know about the police, then I am just as guilty as they are for their abusive and illegal acts. I don't care to live with this - hence the activism. Also, starting next week I will be working more and I won't have as much time for activism so I'm doing what I can now. Rob

PS I feel really horrible this morning as I know some unemployed folks in the 85006 who were able to scrape together bus fare to Salt Lake City to join the anti-police activism efforts there....I should be with them, knowing what I know about America and I feel very bad about myself for remaining here in the 85006 - much worse than the night I didn't go to the Trump protests in Phoenix. I have rationalized my remaining here by the knowledge that I need to be here to being training next Monday for the site supervisor gig - but what does that say about me and my convictions that I chose to remain here? My husband sees my point but also says that I did the right thing given the nature of the United States, and that helped, but I still feel horrible about myself. That's another score I have with this country I can't forgive - if you are low income, damned if you do, damned if you don't. It really is a nightmare to live with this day in and day out. Rob