Neighbors and poison use

[iris lilies]

I agree--I think it's a multi pronged issue. However, the negative impact on the environment of some of the broadly used chemical herbicides and pesticides--some of which are banned in Europe-- is real--and those include glyphosate, atrazine, and chlorpyrifos.

Most experts agree that these chemicals should be used as a last resort. Integrated pest management (IPM) should be used first, with biological and mechanical solutions as the primary tools.

Agricultural practices have a long way to go in terms of adoption of less harmful, more polluting substances. Everyone knows that Round-Up is very widely used, and part of that is because Monsanto "owns" many farms across the country. I was just at a virtual meeting about how to save and restore Lake Champlain from its pollutants, and the biggest cause of the lake's problems is agricultural practices and sedimentary run-off.

And you're right, IL, we citizens can do a LOT to "be the change"--by giving up our love of turf monocultures and not only embracing "weeds" that feed pollinators, but actively encouraging them. When we plant, we can choose native pollinator plants--they are just as beautiful and in many cases hardier than non-natives.

Round up should be used only if buckthorn and Japanese knotweed are crawling through your windows and tying you to your bed.

ah well everyone eventually has their justification for using Roundup be it buckthorn or weeds in the sidewalk cracks.My justifications are early in the game, not late.I will use it as I please and as it is useful to me.

And, I am not interested in natives, my plant life revolves around hybrids.

When I speak that truth (hahah) in a garden club meeting, there is a very brief but obvious silence from the group. Many of the garden club ladies are all about natives natives natives. That narrative bores me. There is a reason I was late to National Garden Clubs activites, and that is because most of their programs are boring, I participate only for flower show and floral design activities.

I say, if you can’t manipulate the plant world through selective breeding, where is the fun!!!???

[happystuff]

I have some friends that have let their properties "go native" - absolutely beautiful! All too often, many of the "hybrids" I see look more like plastic replicas than actual plants. But, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

[catherine]

ah well everyone eventually has their justification for using Roundup be it buckthorn or weeds in the sidewalk cracks.My justifications are early in the game, not late.I will use it as I please and as it is useful to me.

And, I am not interested in natives, my plant life revolves around hybrids.

When I speak that truth (hahah) in a garden club meeting, there is a very brief but obvious silence from the group. Many of the garden club ladies are all about natives natives natives. That narrative bores me. There is a reason I was late to garden club of America activites, and that is because most of their programs are boring, I participate only for flower show and floral design activities.

I say, if you can’t manipulate the plant world through selective breeding, where is the fun!!!???

I was watching NOVA the other night and there is a research group that is tampering with one of the enzymes in plants that plays an important role in photosynthesis. There is a little glitch in this particular enzyme (rabisco) that goes back to an evolutionary reason for it millions of years ago that no longer is relevant now. But this group is experimenting with fixing the glitch at the molecular level--if they do they can increase plant production by 30%.

I don't mind tampering with plants a little bit, but there has to be balance. We can't speed ahead of nature--it takes its own good time and for the most part, I believe we're better off honoring that.

As I plant my garden, I'm focusing on native aster and echinacea and rudbeckia, but I'll throw in some other things--my biggest dilemma I'm facing is--I want a dwarf tree in the north corner of my yard, and I'm dying for a Japanese maple.

[iris lilies]

I have some friends that have let their properties "go native" - absolutely beautiful! All too often, many of the "hybrids" I see look more like plastic replicas than actual plants. But, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

It is true that I am growing a bit tired of the “overdone” floofy big headed iris plants coming out of the West coast. One of the hybridizers has a line of “tall smalls” where the iris is tall, but flowers are smallish and the entire plant is elegant in proportion.

I have not much liked historics iris in the past, but I appreciate their lightness and delicacy. They are closer to species, kinda like native plants. I am coming around to liking them more.

[pinkytoe]

I can't say why exactly, but I am not drawn to hybrids anymore. To me, they are fussy. I am slowly reclaiming this yard I am now tied to indefinitely and I am hell bent on making a prairie out of the portion where renters used to park their cars. My neighbors will gasp but with even more stringent watering restrictions, wall to wall lawns and hybrid roses from the previous owner don't make any sense at all except as some relic of the past. I will take great delight in watching things grow that are native to this place (from the recent past anyway). They are headstrong and tough. I will not use poisons of any kind on this little patch of earth.

[iris lilies]

And then there are the species plants that aren’t native, but that masquerade as “natural.”

Pseudacorus iris is one of those—a strong grower needing little care, small flowers/not flashy. Looks like a native. When I looked it up I see it is from China and parts of Europe.

How long does something have to live here and thrive before it is “native?” I always wonder about this.

[pinkytoe]

How long does something have to live here and thrive before it is “native?”

I recently read Michael Pollan's book Second Nature on gardening with nature. If I understood it correctly, "native" at the time this book was written means those plants that would have been growing in a region at the time that immigrants moved in across the country. One thing he said I found interesting is that "weeds" as we know them today did not exist before the land was disturbed. Plants like dandelions were brought over as sustenance and flourished.

[catherine]

I think native plants formed a symbiotic relationship with the rest of the ecosystem, so that takes a bit of time.

According to the National Wildlife Foundation:

Native plants have formed symbiotic relationships with native wildlife over thousands of years, and therefore offer the most sustainable habitat. A plant is considered native if it has occurred naturally in a particular region, ecosystem, or habitat without human introduction.

Exotic plants that evolved in other parts of the world or were cultivated by humans into forms that don’t exist in nature do not support wildlife as well as native plants. Occasionally, they can even escape into the wild and become invasive exotics that destroy natural habitat.

Native plants help the environment the most when planted in places that match their growing requirements. They will thrive in the soils, moisture and weather of your region. That means less supplemental watering, which can be wasteful, and pest problems that require toxic chemicals. Native plants also assist in managing rain water runoff and maintain healthy soil as their root systems are deep and keep soil from being compacted.

And here is info about milkweed, from the same source--IL, you are right on:

Monarch caterpillars feed exclusively on the leaves of milkweed, the only host plant for this iconic butterfly species. As such, milkweed is critical for the survival of monarchs. Without it, they cannot complete their life cycle and their populations decline.

Indeed, eradication of milkweed both in agricultural areas as well as in urban and suburban landscapes is one of the primary reasons that monarchs are in trouble today.

[iris lilies]

I love the way the adjective “ toxic” is de rigeur in usage about chemicals used as pesticides “ Harsh” is another one.

Whenever we have these discussions in our community garden I ask for the exact compounds to be defined that are both “toxic “” harsh “ and no one one has ever able to come up with the compounds except for of course Roundup which is everyone’s whipping boy.

I will never forget the gardener who I actually like very much who insisted on using a non-commercial chemical mix on the patio at the community garden. It’s a mix of salt and vinegar.


She regularly denigrated the idea of “harsh “chemicals. Yeah I don’t know what salt and vinegar is but whatever. She was the same one who spoke of ridding a particular infestation of insect in her house by using the local bug eradication guys. As though she doesn’t understand I can’t chemical use against an insect has more likelihood to affect a human. And I suppose it depends on how with use.


And I will say this because I admit sometimes I’m wrong, the harsh chemical salt and vinegar does actually control of those weeds between the brick patio.

Oh but here is what really pisses me off—I came up to the community garden one day last year and found the carpenter bee holes in our pergola had been filled. A group of little Do-Gooders got together to rid the community garden of the colony of carpenter bees that had been there longer than they had. Really pissed me off. I like carpenter bees and I like that colony, I think they are very funny.

When I am queen of community gardens nationwide there will be carpenter bees and Roundup, by god!

[frugal-one]

Regarding Roundup... Just so you know, I am NOT a gardner ...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifes...3c0_story.html