View Full Version : STEVE inMN
Just wondering where SteveinMN is. Haven't seen a post from him in a week or so? Hope you are ok Steve.
Linda
Am I the only one wondering about what happened to SteveinMN?
Linda
Nope...I'm just watching this thread hoping to see him show up!
fidgiegirl
3-18-14, 10:34pm
Also wondering. Trying to remember if he had mentioned a vacation or anything. Hope all is well, Steve.
I miss him, too. He always helped me to find perspective. I am missing tussiemussies as well.
ToomuchStuff
3-19-14, 1:45am
I miss him, too. He always helped me to find perspective. I am missing tussiemussies as well.
Tried to pm either of them? (assuming the pm settings, send a notification email to the person, not sure if that is the default here)
I looked at Steve's last posts, and didn't see any mention of a vacation, etc. Doesn't mean life doesn't get in the way (it does). Also there have been some discussions here that turned into arguments and insult threads. Some times that makes one go away until things cool down.
I miss him, too. He always helped me to find perspective. I am missing tussiemussies as well.
I am missing both of them too.
gimmethesimplelife
3-19-14, 2:54am
Here's hoping they both return soon! Rob
rosarugosa
3-19-14, 4:51am
I'll bet Steve is on vacation. Lots of folks prefer to only mention this sort of thing online after the fact for security reasons. I think he & his wife went on a cruise last year and he posted about it after they returned. I don't know about TM though. I used to see her comment often on a FB group we both belong to, but I haven't seen her there recently either.
I'm still worried about Zoe Girl.
I had an email from Zoegirl a couple of weeks ago after I emailed her to let her know we were worried about her. She's fine -- been busy with work and her spiritual practice. Sorry I forgot to let people know.
I was wondering about Zoe Girl again too; I'm glad that she has checked in with someone and is doing good!
Interesting how we come to care about what are essentially strangers to us.
Interesting how we come to care about what are essentially strangers to us.
By the time we learn about the joys and challenges that each encounters, the names become something more than strangers. Not sure how to describe the online relationships but strangers doesn't seem right somehow. I have received so much wisdom here that I didn't receive in the real world, I do value the connections. Maybe that is why it is possible to take some things personally that we might ignore from total strangers.
rosarugosa
3-19-14, 7:06pm
Thanks, Lhamo, that is welcome news!
Good point Razz. I refer to this community as my "online friends."
I have met a few forum members in person, but there are many I have never met in person who I still consider real friends. I recently had someone who used to be active here "find" me on the MMM forums, which was great -- we hadn't communicated for several years, but still remembered each other fondly.
Heck, I think of you people as my online family. :) I talk to you more than I do most of my family members and I've known some of you longer than my husband. :)
Heck, I think of you people as my online family. :) I talk to you more than I do most of my family members and I've known some of you longer than my husband. :)
Same here.
I was gone for a few weeks and now that I'm back see that a lot of regular posters are gone. Maybe Steve, and the other's, are also just off having fun somewhere and are too busy doing nothing to check in - or on a tropical island that doesn't have internet access :-)! However I did see a post somewhere around here that made it sound as if many people were defecting to the MMM forums as they are more active. So maybe he is a defectee to "The Darkside" where bad a$$ity rules :-)! Or maybe he's still digging out from all that snow in MN.
Gardenarian
3-24-14, 3:33pm
Very glad to hear that Zoe Girl is doing well. Missing some of the old-timers here. Pug-logic?
Sort of OT - I have never corresponded with anyone here personally. Do a lot of you do that? People have sent me their email addresses, but I guess I just feel more comfortable in the public zone.
fidgiegirl
3-24-14, 3:43pm
Re: personal correspondence, with less than a handful of people, but not typically. I have, though, found that my connections here have spilled over into bloggy land, or Pinterest, or FB. That hasn't ever happened with any other online community I've participated in, so it must say something about the commonalities/connections we foster here, at least for me.
Do the people who have migrated to MMMland have the same user names? How would I know them?
I'm really kind of bummed at how many people have drifted away, or who have flat out "quit"--like Mrs-M and redfox. I value all you guys still here of course, but I'm wondering if active membership is dropping, or staying the same with the addition of new folks joining.
And also, why do people substitute MMM for SLN? I don't see them as serving the same function--overlapping maybe, but not the same.
I, too, feel a great kinship with you guys.
The number of new members approved each week has been consistent for the past 2 years or so, after the initial migration from the old site.
Personally, I believe this medium is no longer suited to the latest technology, tablets & smart phones, as it's difficult to interact beyond short posts. I also think this site has strayed away from its initial focus, YMOL. The competition has a strong voice on it's blog and a more irreverent and edgy audience, perfectly summed up by its "badassity" theme. Over there, energy and controversy are valued. Here, controversy and passion turn people off. I don't understand why.
I visit other forums frequently, but don't post since it seems like a betrayal of my first love, this forum. I wish I had a way to recapture the energy this forum enjoyed years ago, without upsetting the remaining loyal base, but have to admit I'm at a loss.
rosarugosa
3-24-14, 7:58pm
Catherine,
I agree that the functions are not the same, and I don't see why it has to be an either/or choice. I think MMM is a great source of info, but I don't get the same sense of community that I get here. On the rare occasion that I post over there, I use the same name. I've seen others from SLN post under their same user names, but there certainly could be others posting under different names and I wouldn't know it.
The number of new members approved each week has been consistent for the past 2 years or so, after the initial migration from the old site.
Personally, I believe this medium is no longer suited to the latest technology, tablets & smart phones, as it's difficult to interact beyond short posts. I also think this site has strayed away from its initial focus, YMOL. The competition has a strong voice on it's blog and a more irreverent and edgy audience, perfectly summed up by its "badassity" theme. Over there, energy and controversy are valued. Here, controversy and passion turn people off. I don't understand why.
I visit other forums frequently, but don't post since it seems like a betrayal of my first love, this forum. I wish I had a way to recapture the energy this forum enjoyed years ago, without upsetting the remaining loyal base, but have to admit I'm at a loss.
So do you think that YMOL is just not the "latest and greatest" hook to draw people in? Do you think that if our site were structured more like Dave Wampler's original (with all due respect to our new 'parents') that it would be more successful? I don't know why it would--bc NRM also has newsletters, etc. and has a social media presence that Dave never had (because there was none back then). I really enjoy my NRM FB posts.
I know that we are totally aligned with NRM and that's how I initially hooked into SLN but somehow I think there's something "off the track" that keeps us from connecting with our audience. I think we are like the guest cottage in the back yard of NRM rather than being one of the family members, which makes it hard for people to find us and also to connect with the common vision. I'd love to know how many people find us via NRM site.
I daydream sometimes about us building our own blog. There are a lot of writers here who could contribute appropriate material, either fresh or even re-post from their own blogs. Maybe even a twitter account would help. But all this takes time, coordination and will.
I daydream sometimes about us building our own blog. There are a lot of writers here who could contribute appropriate material, either fresh or even re-post from their own blogs. Maybe even a twitter account would help. But all this takes time, coordination and will.
Go for that blog! I think you would be a great writer for it.
Back in 2001 when I first found this SL community, I loved the "Enough" forum. Those posts were inspirational to me. We haven't had a post there in a long time. I was sad when the name of the forum was changed to "Success Stories" (although I understand why it WAS changed) because the new people didn't understand the basic idea which was "I have enough and I am celebrating that place in life" . The new people were interpreting the forum as "I've had it up to here, dammit!" and that's so--off.
So do you think that YMOL is just not the "latest and greatest" hook to draw people in? Do you think that if our site were structured more like Dave Wampler's original (with all due respect to our new 'parents') that it would be more successful? I don't know why it would--bc NRM also has newsletters, etc. and has a social media presence that Dave never had (because there was none back then). I really enjoy my NRM FB posts.
I know that we are totally aligned with NRM and that's how I initially hooked into SLN but somehow I think there's something "off the track" that keeps us from connecting with our audience. I think we are like the guest cottage in the back yard of NRM rather than being one of the family members, which makes it hard for people to find us and also to connect with the common vision. I'd love to know how many people find us via NRM site.
I daydream sometimes about us building our own blog. There are a lot of writers here who could contribute appropriate material, either fresh or even re-post from their own blogs. Maybe even a twitter account would help. But all this takes time, coordination and will.I don't know why the membership seems to be slipping away here for others. But for myself it is that this site seems to lack variety and lacks more innovative (and yes edgy and unorthodox) aspects of simple living that it use to. Many of which involve money, saving and spending money, minimalism, environmentalism, non-traditional lifestyles, and of course early retirement in non-traditional ways. The MMM forums have more of that kind of stuff going on then we do here so may attract those people who are interested in those aspects of simple living. We seem to have transitioned into a less diverse group then before with a narrower focus on what simple living is. I know many people here have said that simple living is not about money or finances or unorthodox lifestyles to them, but other things -perhaps more spiritual things or back to the land things or DIY things. Not really sure how to solve that myself as when new topics are brought up they seem to fall flat. Maybe it's just that those of us who are old timers here have reached our own perfect simple life and just....moved on. I rarely visit the MMM forums but they do have topics I'm interested in =- and of course I have seen Iris Lily getting face punched a few times over there :-)! I personally like the edginess and bada$$ity of that site but I know it's not something for many of the people here.
iris lily
3-24-14, 10:56pm
Alan that's nice that you don't cheat on this SL site, that is sweet!
Me--I like the rock and roll of the MMM site too much to stay out of the fray. Yep, I've taken some face punching there! They are easy to rile up.
mamalatte
3-24-14, 11:50pm
I second iris lily -- I always loved the "Enough" forum, those stories were so inspiring.
It seems like one big part of YMOYL as a practical matter was to essentially create your own trust fund to live off of and now that interest rates are so low that it is impossible to do that with the same degree of certainty as the path described in the original book, I think that has shifted the focus to the more everyday, smaller money-saving and simplifying approach of other sites and sources, rather than the goal of achieving true financial independence and the accompanying grander goal to truly do what you want with your life without worrying about money. The other sites/sources seem to be ABOUT money, not about what you would do if you didn't need money anymore (or, things you can already do that don't need money).
ToomuchStuff
3-25-14, 9:26am
I THINK I saw the old forum, once, before it went away (I think that was part of how I originally heard about the book). When I finally went to try to find it, all I found was the closed page.
There are other forums, like MMM and Get Rich Slowly, that seem to be more like the money aspects, verses this place, or frugal village, or other forums that view aspects besides the money part. But each have their own feel.
Gardenarian
3-25-14, 2:06pm
I think I posted once on MMM and used the same name; I also use the same name on Pinterest.
I'm not a follower of YMOYL per se, though I thoroughly agree with the concept.
The people who stick with this forum seem to be older than the MMM crowd - there's really no hipster vibe here. I'm just fine with that.
I think we are below critical mass right now. IMHO, it takes a certain number of new posts every day to make a forum feel alive.
flowerseverywhere
3-25-14, 3:00pm
[QUOTE=Alan;171966] . I also think this site has strayed away from its initial focus, YMOL. The competition has a strong voice on it's blog and a more irreverent and edgy audience, perfectly summed up by its "badassity" theme. Over there, energy and controversy are valued. Here, controversy and passion turn people off. I don't understand why.
QUOTE]
I agree. I don't participate much anymore because I see people trying to justify their behavior and not be willing to make any changes. I am not going to be an enabler of irresponsible behavior.
Defaulting on student loans for example, or trying to qualify for Medicaid turns me off unless you are unable to work two jobs and cut back on everything. We are all so lucky and spoiled!
Teacher Terry
3-25-14, 4:09pm
Many times when I get on here not much has happened but when I go to Mr MM their forums are always active so lots to read.
It's interesting how this thread has evolved...I wonder what Steve in MN would say?
I agree. I don't participate much anymore because I see people trying to justify their behavior and not be willing to make any changes. I am not going to be an enabler of irresponsible behavior.
Defaulting on student loans for example, or trying to qualify for Medicaid turns me off unless you are unable to work two jobs and cut back on everything. We are all so lucky and spoiled!
The culture of coddling victims here has grown steadily over the years to drown out other discussions on authentic self, thoughtful discussions about life choices, joyous declarations of "enough" and the all important "gloats." (YAY--gloats! ha ha ) It's a downer place. Agony Aunts who want to sooth victims of society can find plenty to do here.
The wonderful and life-affirming message of self reliance by charting your own, unique life path as espoused in YMOYL is lost among it all. I think this board is still pretty strong with homemaking advice such as in organizing, giving frugal tips, occasional gardening and small livestock discussions, but the inspirational messages of the past are lacking.
Just today I heard one on MMM and I've carried it around in my head all day: Learn to not care about what others think of you and your spending. The ROI* is invaluable.
*Return on Investment.
[QUOTE=Alan;171966] . I also think this site has strayed away from its initial focus, YMOL. The competition has a strong voice on it's blog and a more irreverent and edgy audience, perfectly summed up by its "badassity" theme. Over there, energy and controversy are valued. Here, controversy and passion turn people off. I don't understand why.
QUOTE]
I agree. I don't participate much anymore because I see people trying to justify their behavior and not be willing to make any changes. I am not going to be an enabler of irresponsible behavior.
Defaulting on student loans for example, or trying to qualify for Medicaid turns me off unless you are unable to work two jobs and cut back on everything. We are all so lucky and spoiled!
My thoughts exactly.
I would not be so hard on everyone. We all go through changes in our lives, and I think an online community reflects that. I'm definitely in a more "down" time. When I was younger, I was experimenting with more changes. There are still big and exciting possibilities in my life, but they do not seem as big and radical and exciting as things were ten years ago. When our kids were born, and we thought it would be a great idea to get rid of the car, it seemed more exciting. We went carfree! We started raising chickens! We started using a composting toilet bucket system! (And then had to abandon it because of our dogs tendency to root in the buckets when our toddlers left the bathroom doors open). Now we have a car again, though we still bicycle most of the time. We have chickens, but we've had chickens for years. It's stop and go with the garden. The only thing that's really new is the drip irrigation we put in last year.
Basically, I'm feeling kind of blah. We've almost paid for the house, but now we're facing a bunch of summer camp fees, so we have to delay that. Our emergency fund has dwindled to almost nothing. Blah, blah, blah.
I think it might be just a time of life. I don't know if it really is so, but my guess is the people over at MMM are younger and more in the phase of life we were in ten years ago. To jump ship here and go over there though, would feel a little bit like abandoning old friends to go hang out with younger, more exciting friends, (while still being in a bit of a blah period myself).
I don't have much time to give to the internet right now in my life. With the time I do have to give, I think I'll keep checking on things here.
By the way, where IS Steve?
I just wanted to put a little skin in the game on our community concern.
I too am missing SteveMN!!!!
I hate to see RedFox go. I am indebted to her for getting the concept of 'Triangulation' through to me. And I think that was just through reading posts, not me participating in them.
I miss MrsM tremendously. I will never look at a Laundry Pin the same way again :) She & I would chat a little via the Personal Message function here and I hate that I don't have her personal email to connect with her.
"If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen"
I read through the student loan thread & I guess there was some residual stuff going on because nothing on there seemed out of line to me or a personal assault on RF's character.
I am all for us challenging each other - that's part of growing.
However, I'm not into 'facepunching' ... I get enough of that figuratively right now in real life & come here to relax, not get riled up.
And when I do get riled up (the prospect of Sarah Palin being a heartbeat away from presidency) there is a place for me to come here & go bananas about it.
My hats off to anyone that puts their Dirty Laundry out here for us to rifle through.
I can't take the heat right now, so I stay out of most things around here controversial. Maybe I should examine that about myself and work to be a more active participant in things controversial.
I'm just writing to say I love this board & yeah it is kinda boring sometimes, but so what that's the ebb&flow of life.
To me this is not a board for zealots, it's more for the 'lasagna noodle' lovers in life.
I've wanted to take a few zealots around here to task, but refrained and in the end the zealots move on.
YMOYL to me is about it takes LifeEnergy to get Money and asks me to question what I am putting my LifeEnergy toward.
To be conscious about the choices I make on this Earth.
SimpleLiving is a tool I use to Live Life on Life's Terms.
my guess is the people over at MMM are younger and more in the phase of life we were in ten years ago.
I think this is true. When one first stumbles on to the aha of simple living, it is very exciting. My kick from reading MMM is seeing young people "get" it since in "real" life I still see so much mindless consumerism and waste.
I recall vividly many years ago being inspired by the Amy Dacyzyn (sp?) books. It started a whole journey for me of questioning how I was living plus I love being resourceful so it resonated. At that time, there was only one forum I could find and it was called Frugal Moms. Then I found the first incarnation of this one. I keep coming back here because it is comforting to see the same souls here who have been here all along. Kind of like going to the neighborhood pub and getting to know all the characters - warts and all.
Yeah, I kinda feel like a geezer when browsing the MMM forums. Not sure how I could contribute there.
Redfox is gone?
I'll keep my opinion on that to myself.
If this board were all about money, I'd pass. I can't think of anything more boring.
My idea of simplicity mostly revolves around avoiding work and related obligations. I do my duty environment-wise, even though I grouse about the ever-more-complicated recycling around here, and share the community interest in paring down and a relatively simple approach to life. But I'll never be an ascetic.
If I leave here, it will be in response to the tiresome tendency of threads to devolve into smugness and bouts of people patting themselves on the back at others' expense, as they so often do. I suppose that's human nature...
We all go through changes in our lives, and I think an online community reflects that. I'm definitely in a more "down" time. When I was younger, I was experimenting with more changes. There are still big and exciting possibilities in my life, but they do not seem as big and radical and exciting as things were ten years ago. I think this is key as to why this site is less involved with as many other aspects of simple living as forums like MMM. I think that as a group many here are more settled. They know what they want, and they are working towards getting there - or are already there. They are probably more mainstream then many MMM people are in their SL wants and lives now even if they have probably done a lot of the things they talked about on MMM when they were younger. So we have sort of morphed into a more domestic frugal forums than a "how can we quit working at 30 and bike around the world with the kids on a budget while homeschooling" kind of forum similar to many MMM threads. And for some of us the domestic or even the frugal-domestic stuff doesn't apply or hold interest. I know that on these forums 10 years ago we had those kind of threads that are now on MMM and they were exciting and inspirational. But, even though I am still excited and inspired by those kind of threads and am no where near settled myself (pretty much just the opposite), I just don't see the interest in that kind of stuff for most people here. But I still enjoy the topics we talk about here - and have always enjoyed the people and friendships - even if they don't always apply to my simple living style or I don't participate as much as before or start threads about topics that effect me.
I am also sad to see Redfox and Steve MN leave. Don't know what drove either away but sad to see them go - as well as other's who have drifted away. Maybe they really are over at MMM or another forum. I haven't been there in a longggggggg time myself but I do use my Spartana handle there too.
rosarugosa
3-26-14, 5:28pm
I think Steve will be back; I suspect he is on vacation or something.
RF left in a snit, and while I'm sorry to see her go, I'm also resolute about not agonizing over those who will call someone an "ignorant dolt" in one conversation, and then basically say "I'm leaving because you hurt my feelings" in another thread. I don't have the thickest of skins, but knowing that, I also make a conscious effort not to say hurtful things to others. I think it's great when we can be supportive of each other. I've derived a lot of support from this community. When someone appears to be misguided, or is asking for advice, etc., I do think there's usually a tactful way to frame "constructive feedback," and that it's worthwhile to make that effort.
Gardenarian
3-26-14, 8:55pm
I missed the snit - I'm very sorry to have Redfox gone from the forums. I'll miss her.
I think I missed the reason Redfox decided to leave too. I know it had something to do with a question she asked about finances but didn't read the whole thread so not sure what upset her. Will find it and go back and read it. Too bad though as she was very insightful and knowledgeable even if I didn't always agree with her position on things. Same with Steve - didn't see anything posted here as to why he left but may have just decided his time was spent living the life rather than talking about it - he was retired right? No free time off all that playing to spend posting when you're retired. It's a tough 24/7 job but some of us have to do it :-)! Hope that was a proper gloat for you Iris Lily :-)!
IshbelRobertson
3-27-14, 2:46pm
I am sorry that RF decided to leave. She was insightful in many ways. Her cancer experience gave a lot of support for many.
ToomuchStuff
3-27-14, 5:14pm
I also believe Steve is on vacation or traveling and such. Worse case, he may just be taking a break (people do that whenever life gets in the way, just have to hope it is for a good reason, not bad). Didn't see anything about him leaving, the closest thing was a (paraphrased) don't go there, type of discussion about the political forum.
Has anyone sent him an email yet?
Teacher Terry
3-27-14, 5:39pm
Hopefully, Steve is just having fun and I also miss Redfox.
Nobody asked for my opinion, so here it is...
We've become, as a great Comanche cheif once said, a community of widows and orphans. Controversy is shunned purely in the name of continual comfort. See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil. Do that and evil doesn't exist. I have my mother if I need denial, thank you. Carry bucket of sand, insert head as needed. She's Baptist. She's good at it.
As an extension of that, the victim card gets played too often here. Response is always a long chain of {{{{{hugs}}}}} to sooth thin skin. Dandy. How does a punctuation mark help someone figure out how to work through a problem? We used to support each other with real, honest feedback even when the answer that everyone knew anyway wasn't what the poster wanted to hear. Now mollycoddling and enabling are the first order of business. Again, I can just call Mom for that mental morphine.
YMOYL is an eye opener if you're new to the concept. Very valuable in that regard. It's also a book. I repeat, a BOOK. It should be followed blindly and to the letter no more than A Catcher in the Rye, The Bible, Hitchhiker's Guide To the Galaxy, Mein Kampf, Crazy For Casseroles, The Annapolis Book of Seamanship (ok, maybe you should follow that one), etc. With apologies to our hosts as needed, it should be a starting point in some of our discussions, not held up on the alter as an end all, be all. There are plenty of historical examples of communities based on followers of some book that lived and died. In fact there are books about it. Will our story be one?
Technology does seem to be passing us by. I'm on a laptop now. Fine and easy. As Alan mentioned, not so much from a tablet and harder yet from a phone. Not sure what the solution for that will be. If there is one.
My personal synopsis? I'll be happy to keep dropping by to chat about non-controversial vegetables and catch up on the latest victimization by the 1% conspiracy. During other times I think I'd rather invest most the time I have in a little more energetic fashion, something possibly involving discussions of the aforementioned real world. A little exercise for the gray matter using input from a contrarian POV. I've discovered I don't learn much by hanging around with people who have the same POV I do. Same reason recent college grads are the dumbest people on the planet. Anyway, I've worked and achieved enough (for me) and now I want to learn some things. There are several here that have quite gently and graciously shown me how little I know and I am forever grateful for that. For the rest of you good and gentle folk here I hope that these forums continue to offer you comfort and wisdom and community.
Time to head out to the garden, turn on some loud rock-n-roll (helps tomatoes set fruit), drink a cold beer (hydration is the key), plant some gourds (great for target practice) and generally piss off the liberals next door. {{{{{Life is Good}}}}}
iris lilies
3-28-14, 10:17am
... Response is always a long chain of {{{{{hugs}}}}} to sooth thin skin. Dandy. How does a punctuation mark help someone figure out how to work through a problem?
I laughed out loud at that! I hate the stupid {{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}} as an internet mechanism, not just here, but everywhere.
Great post overall, Gregg.
Hitchhiker's Guide To the Galaxy,
Good point Gregg, but it's still wise to carry a towel.
ApatheticNoMore
3-28-14, 12:03pm
If I lost interest, it would just be due to a lack of situations I saw as being much applicable to my own. Oh and trust me I have no problem as such with this. People's lives are different. It's interesting to read about people's different lives. Someday I might find it relevant (I don't know, someday in the distant future, I decide to move to Mexico as is always being preached or something :) ). But it's not necessarily always immediately relevant so ... What would I find relevant? Maybe just Spartana getting roommates, or see if people's career moves go anywhere.
I have lost the will to even rage against the world in say public policy. Well yea much of the time :). I mean you can only spend so much time in sometimes deeply felt abhorrence at the damnable indifference of your fellow citizens to the horrors unfolding in the world we live in, before eventually moving on to something more effective, or just giving up entirely and tending your garden (ok I don't relate to having a garden to tend either (though I've helped others out irl), it's a figure of speech). Although tending one's garden is pretty mollycoddling compared to actually doing something more effective.
I figure if people leave after getting offended it's often because things are going on in their own lives. I mean it's really patently obvious is you ask me. I'll default to kindness and sympathy and understanding I guess (the thing is I'm not a touchy feely type), as it's how I have learned to treat myself. It's not the default, it's not particularly how my mom treated me. It's learned and well into adulthood. If it's too extreme, eh well one is always tending to one extreme or other I suppose. Oh and I don't suppose I'm ever the sort to put working and achieving above learning except I do earn a living and am not a permanent student - I have my priorities in life, and learning is up there.
Miss Cellane
3-28-14, 12:40pm
Well, I stopped dropping by here when it seemed as if every post ended up in a political rant.
Actually, many political rants, all the same from post to post.
In the old forum, there was better moderation on the politics and it was kept mostly on the political forum. But now you can post on something like how to meet medical expenses. You'll get a few helpful posts, and then the political posts about health care in the US will start. It's the same tired old arguments over and over. No one ever changes the other person's mind. The debaters never seem to read the other posts. And the usefulness of the thread to the OP ends.
I'm not saying that political argument should be banned. Just contained better. It is not helpful to post about rising costs and how to deal with them and get a political rant--that should be saved for the Public Policy folder. Someone asking, "How can I afford heating oil this winter?" doesn't want politics--they want ways to insulate their house, or suggestions on applying for heating assistance, or ways to lock in a lower price.
I'm not adverse to controversy--but keep it in line with the intent of the post. For a while there, it seemed as if every post ended up with a few regular posters sledgehammering each other with political rants. This is a good way to send old members looking up other forums and to send prospective members fleeing.
gimmethesimplelife
3-28-14, 12:51pm
Someone else who hasn't posted in awhile here - Peggy. I wonder what is going on with Peggy these days, did she leave in a snit too? I know she could get very fired up here but I do miss that energy she had. Rob
The Storyteller
3-28-14, 1:41pm
Maybe some of the people who stopped posting here actually got a life.
A real one, I mean. Not one built on ether.
The Storyteller
3-28-14, 1:42pm
Sorry. Couldn't resist. :)
I have a real life, and I come here too.
Gardenarian
3-28-14, 3:41pm
I have a real life, and I come here too.
+1
awakenedsoul
3-29-14, 12:35pm
I just got a pm from Steve that he sent a year ago. In it he said that if things got too heavy, he would probably take a break, too. Steve was always very sweet and encouraging to me. I hope he comes back. I learned a lot from him.
I just got a pm from Steve that he sent a year ago. In it he said that if things got too heavy, he would probably take a break, too. Steve was always very sweet and encouraging to me. I hope he comes back. I learned a lot from him.
Yes, a steady voice of reason whom I admire.
ToomuchStuff
3-29-14, 4:18pm
I just got a pm from Steve that he sent a year ago. In it he said that if things got too heavy, he would probably take a break, too. Steve was always very sweet and encouraging to me. I hope he comes back. I learned a lot from him.
I didn't realize Email used Pony express and their pony died? (a year to get a pm?)
rosarugosa
3-29-14, 5:48pm
Gregg: I think your points are well made, but I was particularly struck by the "gently and graciously." So you could say, "Rosa, you're a bit spendy for a simple liver, and if you're serious about retiring and not working till you drop, you might want to rethink those sateen sheets as a want rather than the need you rationalized them to be" and I might pay attention, we might actually get somewhere. Or you could say, "Rosa, you stupid twit, if you are serious about simple living you had better improve those mending skills or we won't want you coming round here no more." In the latter scenario, you would probably lose me at "twit" and I would miss the valuable wisdom you had to impart on the virtues of mending.
So I think we can challenge one another in a civilized manner, and also be supportive, and I agree that it is wise to always have your towel with you :)
awakenedsoul
3-29-14, 7:07pm
I didn't realize Email used Pony express and their pony died? (a year to get a pm?)
I didn't get several pm's in my mailbox until yesterday. I didn't realize they were there. I wasn't able to log in. I emailed administration a few days ago and Alan helped me out. My apologies to anyone who didn't get a reply.
I hope Steve wouldn't mind me saying, but he also mentioned staying away from the pp forum.
Each person here really makes a difference. He was very kind and empathetic.
Re: Public Policy. There are two forums here where the content effects every single one of us. Environment and Politics. Like it or not, as long as we live in a society rather than individual caves in the hills that will be the case. I understand the desire to avoid conflict and applaud those who recognize they are better off in that position. I would, however, urge everyone to consider that the emotion connected with PP stems from the fact that the participants believe they understand how high the stakes truly are. While it may be melodramatic, it us not an overstatement to say that today's political decisions will effect the health of society and really of the planet itself for generations to come. Some people choose to be more involved in that process than others. There is no right or wrong choice, but I am glad our group has thick skinned representatives with different views willing to help hash things out.
I like learning about the controversies, the joys, successes and challenges, the fresh ideas on different topics so I just check in on a regular basis when I turn on the computer. I know that people come and go as life directs but enjoy each contribution.
Glad that you are all there to visit. Very simple viewpoint maybe.
Someone else who hasn't posted in awhile here - Peggy. I wonder what is going on with Peggy these days, did she leave in a snit too? I know she could get very fired up here but I do miss that energy she had. Rob
Peggy broke her arm, in three places, so typing hasn't been easy! But thanks for thinking of me Rob. I'm on the mend and into a soft cast so my fingers are free to 'tear it up at will'! ;)
I have popped in, occasionally, to comment here or there but I confess I haven't posted much in the politics forum. I guess I'm just so gobsmacked at the destructive behaviour of the GOP, and the silence of the DEM that I've kind of lost my will to argue anymore.
Gardenarian
4-1-14, 4:16pm
Sorry about your arm Peggy!
I lost my will to argue (at least on the internet) a long time ago. No one is every going to change their mind about politics because someone points out a fallacy in their logic. I just don't see the point. And I'd rather work on slowing the destruction of the planet than talk about it.
I've got a teenager; the last thing I need is to actually go looking for someone to argue with.
I guess I'm just so gobsmacked at the destructive behaviour of the GOP, and the silence of the DEM that I've kind of lost my will to argue anymore.
Have much to learn you do young Skywalker. ;) Glad you're healing!
Peggy broke her arm, in three places, so typing hasn't been easy! But thanks for thinking of me Rob. I'm on the mend and into a soft cast so my fingers are free to 'tear it up at will'! ;)
I have popped in, occasionally, to comment here or there but I confess I haven't posted much in the politics forum. I guess I'm just so gobsmacked at the destructive behaviour of the GOP, and the silence of the DEM that I've kind of lost my will to argue anymore.So sorry to hear about your arm Peggy, I hope you're back to fighting form soon. I've missed you.
Sorry about your arm Peggy!
I lost my will to argue (at least on the internet) a long time ago. No one is every going to change their mind about politics because someone points out a fallacy in their logic. I just don't see the point. And I'd rather work on slowing the destruction of the planet than talk about it.
I've got a teenager; the last thing I need is to actually go looking for someone to argue with.
I guess that just shows the different ways people look at things. To me, a back and forth exchange on philosophical subjects isn't so much an argument as a (mostly) good natured debate. I agree that I'll never change Peggy's mind about anything political, but others may benefit from a differing point of view.
ToomuchStuff
4-1-14, 5:26pm
So sorry to hear about your arm Peggy, I hope you're back to fighting form soon. I've missed you.
I guess that just shows the different ways people look at things. To me, a back and forth exchange on philosophical subjects isn't so much an argument as a (mostly) good natured debate. I agree that I'll never change Peggy's mind about anything political, but others may benefit from a differing point of view.
Alan, I agree with Gardenarian. Growing up, we called it spitting upwind.
On several boards I am on, it is either a taboo subject, entirely, or an opt in forum. Even with the opt in, the MOSTLY factor kicks in, because insults get exchanged, and when cleaning them up, mod's bia's tend to shine through, and members end up leaving.
Everyone has thin skin on some subject, IMHE. Watching people argue isn't a stress anyone I know, needs. We don't put our heads in the sand and think things don't happen, we do the exact same things you do, when something you didn't want, passes. We deal with it and move on. We don't dwell.
Sorry about your arm Peggy - hope you heal soon and are back to typing. I do miss the "Peggy and Alan Show" (que theme music from "The Itchy and Scratchy Show") but am done with political discussions myself for now. Heck I'm done with even offering my opinion here now as it always seems to be misconstrued and life is too short to deal with drama.
awakenedsoul
4-1-14, 6:55pm
Sorry about your arm Peggy!
I lost my will to argue (at least on the internet) a long time ago. No one is every going to change their mind about politics because someone points out a fallacy in their logic. I just don't see the point. And I'd rather work on slowing the destruction of the planet than talk about it.
I've got a teenager; the last thing I need is to actually go looking for someone to argue with.
This cracked me up! I can relate. I used dance to teach teenagers. I switched to teaching adult yoga. I went up to the yoga studio owner and said, "I stopped teaching teenagers because they were so argumentative. Now I'm dealing with menopausal women each day and it's ten times worse!" She laughed and said, "It's the same energy."
Teacher Terry
4-1-14, 7:10pm
WE all have our own political opinions & I doubt that anyone ever changes their mind.
WE all have our own political opinions & I doubt that anyone ever changes their mind.
I don't know about that - I've changed my political opinion a lot in the past couple years, and I've always been interested in others' thoughts on politics. Some of the debates/arguments here have been very enlightening to me as I am at a crossroads in my own political leanings....
I try my darndest to understand or appreciate differing viewpoints but there are some that just confound me - as if we have totally different brains to start with. So I mostly just listen to others argue.
ApatheticNoMore
4-1-14, 10:05pm
I really never thought I could much change people's minds anyway, so less to get discouraged about I guess since the expectation didn't exist in the first place (frankly at best I think I introduce new information).
However I may have assumed that there were more shared values in this country I guess than there really are :\ So my feellings of disgust at politics and discussing it is less because I can't change the mind of someone on this board and more from a pessimistic assessment of what I regard as a really bad political situation changing.
To me, a back and forth exchange on philosophical subjects isn't so much an argument as a (mostly) good natured debate.
+1
Everyone has thin skin on some subject, IMHE.
I seem to be a real eccentric oddball, because my thin skin is triggered by personal attacks and not by abstract debate (I may loathe someone's ideas, but that's no skin off my back)
WE all have our own political opinions & I doubt that anyone ever changes their mind.
Well it's about nuance, so I do change my mind in being somewhat more sympathetic to why people vote for who they do or take the positions they do (even though I may loathe who they vote for). The deeply hard wired assumptions that are part of the personality don't change easily, no (and IMO much politics is based on this). But learning more just about other peoples approaches changes things more subtly.
I have been known to read a thread in the Political Forum to get a better understanding of a subject, knowing that I'll hear well-reasoned representation from both sides.
I have been known to read a thread in the Political Forum to get a better understanding of a subject, knowing that I'll hear well-reasoned representation from both sides.
I have learned so much from reading posts here and then trying to understand what I hear in the Canadian media which quite often does not jive with what I have read here so very interesting.
I don't know about that - I've changed my political opinion a lot in the past couple years, and I've always been interested in others' thoughts on politics. Some of the debates/arguments here have been very enlightening to me as I am at a crossroads in my own political leanings....
I'm much the same way. I like to feel that my positions are well reasoned because I do try to consider them from as many angles as possible before making up my mind, but I will never be able to see all the angles because I only have my own life experiences to fall back on. Discussing almost any topic with someone who's background differs from my own will inevitably reveal a different point of view or at least a different path taken to the same conclusion. The opportunity to learn from someone else's experience really is...priceless.
For me it's not about trying to change someone's views to be the same as mine, but to try to help them understand WHY I believe the way I do. My hope is that regardless of anyone's stance on a topic, they will come away with a better understanding of why I choose to take the stance I do. And visa-versa too - I like to hear the rationale for other's beliefs even if I don't agree with them. So it's not about changing someone, but just about being open minded to why other's have their viewpoints and hoping they are equally open to mine. And it's not arguing, just discussion.
For me it's not about trying to change someone's views to be the same as mine, but to try to help them understand WHY I believe the way I do. My hope is that regardless of anyone's stance on a topic, they will come away with a better understanding of why I choose to take the stance I do. And visa-versa too - I like to hear the rationale for other's beliefs even if I don't agree with them. So it's not about changing someone, but just about being open minded to why other's have their viewpoints and hoping they are equally open to mine. And it's not arguing, just discussion.
:+1:
For me it's not about trying to change someone's views to be the same as mine, but to try to help them understand WHY I believe the way I do. My hope is that regardless of anyone's stance on a topic, they will come away with a better understanding of why I choose to take the stance I do. And visa-versa too - I like to hear the rationale for other's beliefs even if I don't agree with them. So it's not about changing someone, but just about being open minded to why other's have their viewpoints and hoping they are equally open to mine. And it's not arguing, just discussion.
Agreed! If we really think it's important to be a diverse nation don't we have to accept that there are multiple, valid points of view? I think there are plenty of well reasoned opinions that are different from mine. And there there are the fringe opinions...
Hmmm... fringe opinions? Yeah I gotta get me some of those :-)! I won't say I have actually changed by position on things too much when hearing other people's rationale, but I have been influenced to see things from their side and do glean a better understanding. I am of the opinion (and yes, this may be a "fringe opinion") that there is no growth and enlightenment as humans if we are only wanting to see our own ideas reflected back at us from other's.
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