OK, OK, OK, some of you have valid critisims of ObamaCare it would seem.....

[gimmethesimplelife]

Yesterday when I arrived home there was a letter from the Department of Economic Security waiting for me to the effect that they wanted verification that I made X number of dollars from employers X X and X, all of which I have not worked for in the time periods they were asking about. I am unable to reach anyone at their number and I know better than to go to their office - stories abound of people going in early in the morning five days in one week, spending five whole days there, and never seeing a human being - I don't have the time for this. I tried to cancel my Medicaid insurance as I am now terrified to use it but the HMO will not cancel unless under direction from The Department of Economic Security. I cancelled all my physical therapy appointments until further notice as I don't have any faith in the system whatsoever at this point and I don't have faith that there is not misinformation about me in the system that may cause the bills to come my way even though I meet all expanded Medicaid qualifications. At the moment, my HMO card is just a hunk of plastic in my wallet that no longer means anything. Funny how fast something like this can do a 180 in America.....

I do have an appointment today with the Social Services Agency that did my original application, so we'll see how that goes. I have to remember at least my friend Marissa was able to get her tumor surgery - a fact that still makes me cry as I never thought I'd witness the day that human life was worth health care in America. And I was able to begin physical therapy and I did get two months of meds without having to cross the border. So it's not like I didn't get anything. Going forward I think I'll be going to Mexico more than using the card though as I don't have the reserve to deal with letters like this from DES, arriving through no fault of my own. Going to Mexico now seems so much saner and cleaner and appropriate in my case.

I will post how the appointment at three pm today goes though truth be told, I'm not expecting much. I am not ungrateful for the blood work and the start of physical therapy I have received but it does seem that to use this card is to ask for issues with DES. Color me not any longer so impressed with ObamaCare - though I am very very very grateful that Marissa did have her surgery and has not gotten a similar letter yet. Rob

I should also mention that only did I not work for the employers they claim I did in the time period they claim I did but they dollars amounts they claim I made also bear no resemblance to reality. I guess the lesson here - something that I really already knew truth be told - is that I have no business accessing health care in the United States based on my experiences and based on what I know. I need to man up and take responsibility that I made exceptions based on expanded Medicaid - should have known better.

Came back to add - if I am able to make over the amount to qualify for this insurance I'm now afraid to use - I'll probably pass and take the hit to my taxes and just go to Mexico. I don't have the faith I wouldn't get similar letters from a government agency other than the DES with similar misinformation. Better to just give up, pay the fine, and offshore it all to Mexico. One could say I'm becoming disillusioned way to quickly but what little faith was left was hanging by a thread based on ObamaCare. I seem to be learning different once again at this point. Rob

[Teacher Terry]

I don't see what the big deal is. Just write back with the facts & include a copy of last years tax return to show how much $ was actually made.

[gimmethesimplelife]

I don't see what the big deal is. Just write back with the facts & include a copy of last years tax return to show how much $ was actually made.They don't want last year's tax return - they want very specific information for a period of time this February to this March. And they seem to have misinformation for this time period BIG TIME. Rob

[Teacher Terry]

I would just write back & give them the right info.

[Alan]

I don't understand the issue. Unless you misrepresented your income in order to qualify for free healthcare, it's just a matter of clearing up bad information. Why are you abandoning the Medicaid system after they finally proved to you your worth by giving you services for free?

[gimmethesimplelife]

I don't understand the issue. Unless you misrepresented your income in order to qualify for free healthcare, it's just a matter of clearing up bad information. Why are you abandoning the Medicaid system after they finally proved to you your worth by giving you services for free?No, I didn't misrepresent anything on my application, so this is not the issue. I guess the issue is instinctive distrust of the system.....those that have been there will get this, those that have not won't. Fair enough. Something like this happens and all I can think of is all the fear of the system I have known in the past.

Seriously? At this late date it's baked in and will not go away. I will say that I have known people from more stable backgrounds than I - people whose opinion I do respect - who have told me that I over react when such things take place. To me it's not over reacting - it's doing what little I can do to protect myself from such insanity. Two of these people I just referred to - once they lost a lot of their assets after 2008 - now understand and completely agree with me which I find endlessly interesting, as it proves my point that everyone's reality is based on their situation and that reality can become very fluid based on life circumstances.

At any rate, I will go to the social service agency appointment at three today and see what they say but methinks the HMO card will now just be a decoration in my wallet that I will continue to carry as ID only, it does serve that one purpose still. At least if I go to Mexico whatever I do is paid on the spot and there will be no such future letters to cause emotional turmoil, fear and terror. It is well worth a potential hit on my future taxes to give up and not deal with such issues. Rob

[ApatheticNoMore]

There ARE valid criticisms of Obamacare. But your criticisms are just criticisms of the nature of beuracracy as such. It's just beuracracy and yes it's PLENTY prevalent in government. Things get screwed up in their systems and are hard to correct (the California DMV was a never ending nightmare for me for awhile - I swear I paid my car registration multiple times that year only to find out they'd lost the payment again). They have obscure laws and gotchas almost noone understands until after the fact when they find themselves caught in that net (ie owing more money or something). They aren't always reachable and available and they don't care to be. Because behind it all the blind indifferent machine of beuracracy grinding on, indifferent to the particulars of human life, and they most definitely won't consider your unique circumstances as opposed to applying the rules blindly. Etc.

But I dont' see why you wouldn't keep using Medicaid. The income predictions are hard to do and I've heard some people mention gotchas in Silver plans (if your income changes dramatically in the year), but if your easily within the income qualifications for Medicaid, then why not use it? I've mentioned gotchas in Medicaid, like how they can claw back your estate when you die if you are collecting Medicaid and are between the ages of 55 and 65 I think? (or at any rate over 55) But if you are under age 55 I really dont' think it applies period. The laws are obscure ok, but they ARE NOT SECRET. The information is out there if you know to do research (that most people will not know to do research - see above on laws noone understands until afterward). If you clearly qualify for Medicaid though you clearly qualify for Medicaid. I don't think it's that complex.

[gimmethesimplelife]

There ARE valid criticisms of Obamacare. But your criticisms are just criticisms of the nature of beuracracy as such. It's just beuracracy and yes it's PLENTY prevalent in government. Things get screwed up in their systems and are hard to correct (the California DMV was a never ending nightmare for me for awhile - I swear I paid my car registration multiple times that year only to find out they'd lost the payment again). They have obscure laws and gotchas almost noone understands until after the fact when they find themselves caught in that net (ie owing more money or something). They aren't always reachable and available and they don't care to be. Because behind it all the blind indifferent machine of beuracracy grinding on, indifferent to the particulars of human life, and they most definitely won't consider your unique circumstances as opposed to applying the rules blindly. Etc.

But I dont' see why you wouldn't keep using Medicaid. The income predictions are hard to do and I've heard some people mention gotchas in Silver plans (if your income changes dramatically in the year), but if your easily within the income qualifications for Medicaid, then why not use it? I've mentioned gotchas in Medicaid, like how they can claw back your estate when you die if you are collecting Medicaid and are between the ages of 55 and 65 I think? (or at any rate over 55) But if you are under age 55 I really dont' think it applies period. The laws are obscure ok, but they ARE NOT SECRET. The information is out there if you know to do research (that most people will not know to do research - see above on laws noone understands until afterward). If you clearly qualify for Medicaid though you clearly qualify for Medicaid. I don't think it's that complex.ObamaCare was the one thin strand linking me to having any faith at all in the system. I'm an adult, I've already accepted that this is going to be a nightmare too, now how I do I minimize the nightmare and retain what dignity I can? This one seems a no-brainer. Don't use the insurance and offshore all my medical I can to Mexico. To do otherwise at this point really seems to be asking for issues, especially given what I already know and have already accepted about America in general. What I find really ironic at this point is how stressed out I was that Romney was going to get in office instead of Obama - seriously, I lost a good deal of sleep over it and agonized over it a great deal. Now it seems that it really makes no difference really that Obama did get in - I'm in a position now where I'm afraid to not go to Mexico for health care. Really, it's no different than if Romney had gotten in.

Another take-away for me is that I can't see myself ever caring that vitally for politics again - what is important is how much value is the dollar retaining and where are health care and other costs low in relation to the dollar's worth? That matters much more than who is in office, I can see that crystal clear now. As for this screw up with DES, I will do whatever the social service agency tells me I should do and I will be pleasant during my appointment. Will I have any faith at all that any results will take place? No, of course not. That is now over and gone for good. Interesting that this one thing that was so important to me - now that the rug is pulled out from underneath it, I'm seeing things yet more clearly. I guess that's a good thing. Rob

[bae]

First World Problems.

[JaneV2.0]

We're the only first world nation I'm aware of with this particular problem.

[gimmethesimplelife]

We're the only first world nation I'm aware of with this particular problem.Jane, I hope you don't take this the wrong way but I wish we could do coffee somewhere sometime. So many of your shortly worded posts are spot on! I go on and on and on but you just hit the nail on the head with minimal verbiage. Once again, I couldn't agree more with what you have posted here. Rob

[JaneV2.0]

I'm succinct because I'm lazy.

[Miss Cellane]

I can understand your anxiety, but I think you should wait to pull the plug on using Medicare until you have tried to straighten things out.

It could be as simple as correcting the form, and possibly sending in copies of a few pay stubs, and everything will work out fine. Sometimes the system does work.

They could have grabbed the wrong weeks of pay, or the wrong SS number, or any of a number of things. They are giving you a chance to verify the info--they didn't just shut down your Medicare benefits.

I think you can be concerned about this, certainly. But things don't always end up for the worst.

[sweetana3]

Good grief. I come from the perspective of 31 years of work at the IRS, 15 of which were in the Taxpayer Advocate Office. This whole period was just fixing issues many were exactly like the letter you got. My job was making sure that both sides were working together to resolve whatever the problem was.

The first thing you should ever do when confronted with ANY government or other official communication (after getting up off the floor) is identify whether the facts are accurate. In this case, you state they are not. Therefore, a clear and complete letter giving the true specifics and providing any proof available would help to resolve the issues. Before any action can be properly taken, both sides have got to agree on the correct facts.

I always said understand the facts, apply the law, and then determine solution.

I would review the letter and list each item with dates and amounts or give each item a number. Then summarize your correct info referencing each item by number or in order on your own list. For example, if they say they have income for Feb. and March and you worked somewhere else, give them your dates of employment, the name and address of the employer, the correct amounts you made or approx. amount and maybe even throw in a person to contact or a paystub, whichever you have. If you were not even in the location mentioned, then provide your correct city, state and again the employers so it shows you have info to back you up.

Do not do as one taxpayer did and scribble all over all the margins on the letter sent and send it back. Attach a copy of the original letter (helps them find the file) and your own clear and complete explanation. Take it from me, it will be months.

If this is from last year, you should have your tax return or you can refer them to tax return info for the whole year. Kind of interesting and there is a distinct possiblity that your identity is being used by someone else. So just provide a very clear response regarding the info in the letter and return it. KEEP A COPY OF YOUR RESPONSE too.

Do not go over the falls or slit your wrists or otherwise do crazy things over a letter that be based on completely inaccurate information. Keep your head and reply and prepare to wait.

[Teacher Terry]

Great advice!

[dmc]

They are obviously out to get you Rob. You better head to Mexico before they close the border. Don't wait another minute, pack your bags and get out while you can.

You wanted big government, what did you expect?

[gimmethesimplelife]

They are obviously out to get you Rob. You better head to Mexico before they close the border. Don't wait another minute, pack your bags and get out while you can.

You wanted big government, what did you expect?Now this one? This one is going a little bit too far.....big step from fear of America learned over years vs. they are out to get me. I do think you meant this as a joke though. Rob

[dmc]

Now this one? This one is going a little bit too far.....big step from fear of America learned over years vs. they are out to get me. I do think you meant this as a joke though. Rob

Just a joke Rob. But with the NSA spying, Homeland Security, and the Patriot Act can you really be sure? They may be out to get us all.

[rodeosweetheart]

It is sure starting to feel they are ARE out to get us all. And Rob, I hope the work confusion gets straightened out asap. They are probably getting used to being wrong,and having to fix the records.

What a pain. I think you should tell the folks at your meeting that you are frightened to continue with the PT, because that is probably NOT what is supposed to be happening, for your continued healthcare. I am thinking there might be an ombudsman that is set up to help in cases like this. You should try to keep going with the PT if you possibly can, since it's helping you.

[ToomuchStuff]

So have you worked at those places, before?
If so, and just not during the time frames listed, what was the time frames employed there?
What type of help did they employ, and please be truthful?
Were they good on their paperwork, or did you check? (things like withholdings, etc)
What I am wondering, if they have some screwup on their paperwork, or if they have some illegal's working and use your SS ID, to report taxes? (effectively, Identity theft)

I understand the paranoia after the Vegas report.

[gimmethesimplelife]

Well, here's an update. I did check with my employers and found that my records are accurate, as I stated I did not work for x y and z the dates claimed nor did I make the amount of money that DES says I did per their records. I went to the social services appointment at three pm yesterday - this was the navigation agency that helped me apply for Medicaid to begin with - and they scanned my documentation and the letter I wrote explaining my side of the story. I also did call the physical therapy office back and restarted my appointments but only one a week and I have left all other appointments stay cancelled as they involve simple work that can be done in Mexico cheaply.

I do agree with RodeoSweetheart that physical therapy is important and I will keep up with this unless I receive another letter of terror. All else though - it's getting offshored, it's just too easy and too inexpensive and too fear free not to offshore my medical. Some time will have to pass before I can trust enough to use the HMO card again, if ever. I will certainly think several times before doing so. Very depressing, too, as to me access to health care is a basic component of worthwhile citizenship and here I supposedly have access but am afraid to use it - one guess as to how this makes me perceive America at this point? Rob

I came back to add that something else I find annoying? The HMO won't even let me cancel the policy to save taxpayer money - my first instinct was that if I am afraid to use this policy, why should the taxpayers be picking up the bill for it? To me this is utter insanity taken to yet another level, and I can only apologize to all the taxpayers out there that this situation is so SNAFUED - only non obscene way I could think of to describe it. Truly this whole situation could be fodder for a conservative talk radio program, and this one time, I don't think I'd disagree. Shudder. Rob

[JaneV2.0]

You know--this is a new program, and comprehensive. I'm not surprised there are snags. We're way behind the rest of the civilized world. Not to mention the willful resistance of the insurance cabal. It will get better. Worry is bad for your health.

[sweetana3]

What a mountain out of a molehill. You are creating your own drama and it is only hurting you. Nothing has happened except for some questions. You have totally blown a letter with questions into the destruction of your happy world.

I feel very sorry for you and the concerns you have but...... It is totally unnecessary at this time.

As I said, I have spent decades dealing with government correspondence and issues involving complex computer systems both new and old. Stuff happens no matter what the system is or who is managing it or whether it is old or new. Mistakes by human hands add to that complexity. I handled suicide threats we received because of a letter or issue. There is zero reason at this time to get so excited or make such dire and unreasonable pronouncements.

It is even more ridiculous to be asking about canceling a policy that you were so happy to get due to getting a letter asking questions. Again, the correct facts need to be processed, the rules applied and then if a solution is needed, a decision is made. But not until the facts are agreed upon.

Now, all this is void if you are not presenting the State with accurate information. If you are afraid because you are hiding something, provided inaccurate info and know it, are afraid of getting caught due to something you are hiding, well then you are probably right to be concerned. But I do think it is just a mistake on the State's part and will be resolved.

[Teacher Terry]

It once took me 2 years to straighten out my hubby's insurance claim for his cancer treatment. We had permission to go out of network but they only paid at the out of network rate when they needed to pay at the network rate. Was it totally not a fun experience? Of course but I kept at it and got it resolved. He did not stop using his insurance-that is just stupid. Mistakes happen all the time-you just document, save your paperwork, etc and see it to the end. Sorry but I think you are being a drama queen :doh:

[gimmethesimplelife]

There seems to be some basic faith here that other people have - and I say good for them, nothing snarky meant here - I am no longer capable of dredging that up. Life in general has taught me to be very skeptical of having faith in such situations. I'll be glad to be wrong on this one. Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

What a mountain out of a molehill. You are creating your own drama and it is only hurting you. Nothing has happened except for some questions. You have totally blown a letter with questions into the destruction of your happy world.

I feel very sorry for you and the concerns you have but...... It is totally unnecessary at this time.

As I said, I have spent decades dealing with government correspondence and issues involving complex computer systems both new and old. Stuff happens no matter what the system is or who is managing it or whether it is old or new. Mistakes by human hands add to that complexity. I handled suicide threats we received because of a letter or issue. There is zero reason at this time to get so excited or make such dire and unreasonable pronouncements.

It is even more ridiculous to be asking about canceling a policy that you were so happy to get due to getting a letter asking questions. Again, the correct facts need to be processed, the rules applied and then if a solution is needed, a decision is made. But not until the facts are agreed upon.

Now, all this is void if you are not presenting the State with accurate information. If you are afraid because you are hiding something, provided inaccurate info and know it, are afraid of getting caught due to something you are hiding, well then you are probably right to be concerned. But I do think it is just a mistake on the State's part and will be resolved.There is no representation, just a total lack of faith and trust in the United States. I tried to keep it going for ObamaCare but now that I see this is going to be a nightmare too - it's gone. Really, in my case, I'm better off going to Mexico - cash paid on the spot at very sane and human rates, no claims, no letters to live in fear of, no bureaucratic errors to live in fear of - just paid and done. Nothing to come back and cause you fear later. I've reached the point where this seems to be the only sane option for me, and I don't think expecting DES to get my income - or lack thereof - and the dates right, as this is all computerized anyway - is asking for too much. Apparently it is - good thing for me I live so close to the border. I tremble to think of how stressed out I would be were the border not a realistic option, and how many others out there are getting similar letters as we speak?

I don't mind proving income on a regular basis to maintain eligibility but I have ALREADY GONE THROUGH THIS PROCESS TWICE - and I'm sorry, I look back in my posts now and I have not mentioned this last - at this point I wish I had never had faith to begin with and I wish I had not applied. Although I have misrepresented nothing I believe I'm very much guilty until someone decides I'm not, proof not mattering one iota, and I don't have faith at this point that things will end well. Best case scenario - the taxpayers are wasting money on premiums for a policy I'm afraid to use due to fear of DES incompetence. I can't see this ending any better than that. Rob

[Teacher Terry]

One thing I notice is that men in general seem to have a lot less patience for this type of thing. I am sure my hubby would not have continued to fight it like i did. But is saved us thousands of $ in the end.

[Teacher Terry]

Why would you fear letters? You answer them, resolve issues & move on.

[gimmethesimplelife]

What a mountain out of a molehill. You are creating your own drama and it is only hurting you. Nothing has happened except for some questions. You have totally blown a letter with questions into the destruction of your happy world.

I feel very sorry for you and the concerns you have but...... It is totally unnecessary at this time.

As I said, I have spent decades dealing with government correspondence and issues involving complex computer systems both new and old. Stuff happens no matter what the system is or who is managing it or whether it is old or new. Mistakes by human hands add to that complexity. I handled suicide threats we received because of a letter or issue. There is zero reason at this time to get so excited or make such dire and unreasonable pronouncements.

It is even more ridiculous to be asking about canceling a policy that you were so happy to get due to getting a letter asking questions. Again, the correct facts need to be processed, the rules applied and then if a solution is needed, a decision is made. But not until the facts are agreed upon.

Now, all this is void if you are not presenting the State with accurate information. If you are afraid because you are hiding something, provided inaccurate info and know it, are afraid of getting caught due to something you are hiding, well then you are probably right to be concerned. But I do think it is just a mistake on the State's part and will be resolved.Another problem here? I have kept records dating back quite a few years. I don't have any faith or trust though that their records match my records or that somehow through no fault of my own or even DES's that the numbers match. In such a case my rights and my records - although generated from a third party independent of me - would mean nothing. It all makes me think of an aunt of mine in Austria - when she paid my way over to Europe in 1987 I remember her asking me all kinds of questions about the US to which I was brutally honest - I remember her telling me to live with two bags always packed and money hidden to run with. I hate it when that advice comes back to haunt me, I really do.

[gimmethesimplelife]

Why would you fear letters? You answer them, resolve issues & move on.I fear letters as their information is incorrect to date and it really doesn't seem like asking too much (does it?) for them to fix any issues by the second time? This is time three. Rob

[Teacher Terry]

If you have kept records of everything you are fine. I always do that too. If you are feeling a lot of anxiety, depression, paranoia you may want to talk to your doc about that. There are meds that can help.

[gimmethesimplelife]

Maybe I am way off base here? Maybe? My gut is that I should not have to be going through this process a third time. I was OK with time number two as Jane has posted, this is new and there are going to be glitches - but time three? I'm pretty much giving up on the system other than bluffing through it day to day. Scattered here and there I still do see some good - I will grant that - but on life and death issues such as this - it's now been proven to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that I'm best off offshoring my medical. Too much potential for errors in the system and too much of a nightmare to achieve resolution. I will however, keep fighting this - but only because if I don't, this is my tacit permission for the system to treat someone else this way and I don't want to live with that.

Funny how to me so much in America boils down to social class.....Everyone I know on Medicaid that has recently gotten it agrees with me and I've even got some others questioning if it is safe to use their HMO cards now. The last was not really my intent but I had to let struggling people I know know that this is a possible issue they may get stuck with and Mexico can circumvent that.

Some good news, though, out of all of this! I was worried when the ACA came into effect and also when Medicaid was expanded in Arizona that border doctors would take a huge hit. I don't think they have anything at all to worry about now - if anything, people will be even more grateful for their existence. So there is something positive at any rate. Rob

[Spartana]

Rob if you were paying social security or medicare taxes while employed at those place, then you can just get a copy of your Soc. Sec. statement and it will have your annual earnings at each place you worked listed. Mine do. If you were getting paid in tips and accounted for them as part of your earnings then I don't know if those will be on that or not, but you can use your previous income tax statements for them. Or call the employers and get an early W-2 form from them. Lots of ways to officially show employment income during a time period. I imagine this is happening to many people who applied for Medicaid to check for fraud.

[catherine]

Rob, in my mind you are right that Obamacare is certainly not the answer to our ridiculous health care mess. I, too, am disappointed. It means well, but it's nothing but putting lipstick on a pig. (Actually, that's a bad analogy because I like pigs.)

However, I just want to reassure you that filling out a form is not a reason to panic. Look at me--I write to the IRS every two months with information that they need because I owe a lot of back taxes. A lot. Am I afraid they are going to come in my house in the middle of the night and kick me out and sell my stuff? No. As sweetana said, the people I've spoken with have been pretty reasonable and understanding. Am I happy that I've had to go to great lengths to give them my complete financial picture? No, but I put myself in that position, and so far they are working with me. I may decide to sell my house and pay my back taxes with the proceeds, which is a total bummer, but it is what it is. However, if I'm able to make their payments, it will be my choice to move, not theirs.

My point is, I'm not saying getting decent healthcare affordably should be as tough as it happens to be in the US these days. But as Jane said, we haven't exactly become as socially enlightened as our European friends (and others--36 countries do it better than we do). So as for you writing another letter, even if it's your third one, I say just do it.

[iris lily]

ObamaCare was the one thin strand linking me to having any faith at all in the system. I'm an adult, I've already accepted that this is going to be a nightmare too, now how I do I minimize the nightmare and retain what dignity I can? This one seems a no-brainer. Don't use the insurance and offshore all my medical I can to Mexico.
....
Or go the whole hog, take those 2 bags your Austrian aunt suggested that you keep and skeedaddle permanently. Really seems the best thing all around. No stress in Mexico.

[JaneV2.0]

If I've learned anything in life, it's that working yourself into a swivet over the tempest du jour is rarely productive. In fact, most things work themselves out. You have health care and a backup. And you're healthy--so you're way ahead of the game.

[rodeosweetheart]

Can you get the PT in Mexico? If so, then I would make the decision to go to Mexico for ALL my healthcare, since that makes you feel better, and work out the documentation with the DES here so as to straighten out that misinformation. Maybe see a lawyer in your homestate and pay the lawyer to handle it. I totally get the stress, so you have to be your own best advocate, and do what you would advise others to do--that seems to be to go to Mexico.

Suze Orman had a great line about when faced with 2 choices, pick the one that makes you feel more powerful.

So in your case, that would probably be Mexico. But then tell yourself, I have elected to take care of myself in the best way possible, in a way that makes me feel empowered, and this is my choice. I am a free agent. I choose to do it this way, and I am making a good choice for myself.

And ignore those who mock your fears or tell you that you are wrong to feel the way you feel. Your feelings are your feelings, and you are entitled. Just deal with the situation in a way that makes you feel in control, and don't worry about what they think. (Spoken as someone who incurred PTSD by going into respiratory failure, getting resuscitated and put in an induced coma, and waking up 2 weeks later paralyzed, with $89,000 in medical debt I never asked for.) You are a smart person and your experience in the world is valid, and you have come up with a good way to feel better about the situation with your idea of off-shoring the medical.

[Teacher Terry]

I guess I am losing patience with all the complaining about how bad the US is yet you remain here. If things are so wonderful in Mexico then move there and let us know how it goes.

[Teacher Terry]

Also I am serious that maybe you are experiencing a mental health issue that should be examined.

[gimmethesimplelife]

Can you get the PT in Mexico? If so, then I would make the decision to go to Mexico for ALL my healthcare, since that makes you feel better, and work out the documentation with the DES here so as to straighten out that misinformation. Maybe see a lawyer in your homestate and pay the lawyer to handle it. I totally get the stress, so you have to be your own best advocate, and do what you would advise others to do--that seems to be to go to Mexico.

Suze Orman had a great line about when faced with 2 choices, pick the one that makes you feel more powerful.

So in your case, that would probably be Mexico. But then tell yourself, I have elected to take care of myself in the best way possible, in a way that makes me feel empowered, and this is my choice. I am a free agent. I choose to do it this way, and I am making a good choice for myself.

And sc&&w those who mock your fears or tell you that you are wrong to feel the way you feel. Your feelings are your feelings, and you are entitled. Just deal with the situation in a way that makes you feel in control, and don't worry about what they think. (Spoken as someone who incurred PTSD by going into respiratory failure, getting resuscitated and put in an induced coma, and waking up 2 weeks later paralyzed, with $89,000 in medical debt I never asked for.) You are a smart person and your experience in the world is valid, and you have come up with a good way to feel better about the situation with your idea of off-shoring the medical.I think that your advice is very powerful and makes a lot of sense and that you "get it". Thank you. I mean it, Thank You.

For the time being, I am in school full time and am doing what I can on the side to make income but when school lets out in May I think that checking into P/T in Mexico is a good idea. I could probably find a cheap room in one of the ex pat neighborhoods in Mexicali and English speaking P/T quite affordably there. For now I'd like to keep with one appointment a week and hope that doesn't backfire on me and keep up with the exersizes at home so I don't lose any progress - and there has been progress so I'm keen to keep it.

But I couldn't agree with you more about making the choice that makes you feel more powerful and as to what others think - here's a nice way of putting it - as soon as other people start paying my bills, their opinion will begin to matter more. I think that gets the point across without being unpleasant? I also think it's wise for me to continue fighting this in the US as if I don't, that's (as I said before) tacit approval that I'm OK with others being treated this way, which I am not. I also have to live with my decisions, fortunate or unfortunate as that may be.

Thanks for your encouraging post, RodeoSweetheart. Rob Maybe you gather I'm no stranger to the road less travelled and that my skin is quite thick overall but it's nice to hear supporting words on a topic that is difficult for many - and also difficult for many to grasp the kind of choices I make which to me seem like everyday common sense - but to many others this is not the case. Good thing for thick skin lol. And good thing there's folks like you who don't judge and make an effort to understand. Kudos to you! And enough about me - how are you doing with the health issues that you mentioned above?

[bae]

...and English speaking P/T quite affordably there.

You....don't even speak Spanish???!??!?!?

[gimmethesimplelife]

You....don't even speak Spanish???!??!?!?I speak it well enough to get by from working years in restaurants before immigration laws were enforced after the economic meltdown and from speaking as much Spanish I can with most of my neighbors (something they love me for and I have learned so much Spanish this way, too)......but in a medical situation I'm more comfortable speaking English, comprende? Rob

[rodeosweetheart]

Thanks, Rob, I am doing very well, 10 years later. At the time, they wanted to release me into a rehab center, since I could not walk, use my hands normally, lift a half gallon of milk, etc. etc. I said I'd prefer to go home and I rehabbed at home, on my walker, trying to keep up with 3 kids. I did not find the medical establishment very helpful--I was lucky enough to be extremely stubborn and found my own way, as it were.
Today I can do everything again; after 2 years the limp left me, and my balance has continued to grow stronger over the intervening 10 years. I have about 60% lung function, but I get by.
I recommend reading everything you can on alternative medicine and spontaneous and miraculous healing. The body has incredible resources. You need support in that healing, and you have to feel good about those you enlist to help you in the healing process. And negativity is very damaging--remember that book several years ago, "You can't afford the luxury of a negative thought." A very true concept. It's best to work at tuning out the destructive impulses of others; those impulses are maya, illusory, in the bigger picture.

[sweetana3]

It is sad to say that everyone has to take control over their own "after" treatment. Mom was sent home from serious eye surgery with only a comment to keep her head down the whole 2 weeks or she would not heal. No equipment or suggestions. I did an extensive internet search and found a company in Arizona that had made adaptive equipment to help her watch TV, talk to people by looking in a mirror, sleep with her head in a special cushion, etc. She used all of it and healed well. The doctor was surprised she did so well so I wonder how many fail because no one helps them cope.

We later donated all the equipment to our local teaching eye clinic/hospital for someone else to use.

Same thing with exercise and diet suggestions.

[catherine]

My cousin-in-law in Scotland was in very serious car accident that rendered him completely disabled. He could no longer work. The healthcare system bought them a paid-for HOUSE that was mobility accessible. I'm sure Ishbel could attest to how they take care of their own in the UK

[gimmethesimplelife]

Thanks, Rob, I am doing very well, 10 years later. At the time, they wanted to release me into a rehab center, since I could not walk, use my hands normally, lift a half gallon of milk, etc. etc. I said I'd prefer to go home and I rehabbed at home, on my walker, trying to keep up with 3 kids. I did not find the medical establishment very helpful--I was lucky enough to be extremely stubborn and found my own way, as it were.
Today I can do everything again; after 2 years the limp left me, and my balance has continued to grow stronger over the intervening 10 years. I have about 60% lung function, but I get by.
I recommend reading everything you can on alternative medicine and spontaneous and miraculous healing. The body has incredible resources. You need support in that healing, and you have to feel good about those you enlist to help you in the healing process. And negativity is very damaging--remember that book several years ago, "You can't afford the luxury of a negative thought." A very true concept. It's best to work at tuning out the destructive impulses of others; those impulses are maya, illusory, in the bigger picture.I think there's a lot to what you say.....during my physical therapy process, as my back started getting a little looser, I confronted someone who I really needed to for a long, long, long time and I said some things that needed to be said to clear the air once again for a long, long, long time. I was amazed that the next time I had a physically therapy appointment, I had better range of motion and the therapist even commented that I was not so tense and was moving more freely, especially in regards to my lower back and hips. Though I am a huge believer in socialized medicine - no surprise to any regulars here at this point - I also do believe alternative medicine has a great deal to offer and should not be taken lightly. Diet, also - I firmly believe that this eat on the run food as your enemy because it takes time away from working life that so many live is a ticket to an early grave - if not that, at least unnecessary health issues.

I'm glad you were stubborn and like the Frank Sinatra song - did it your way. I take it that you are no stranger to the road less travelled, too - good to have another such person here! The wonderful thing about being this way - you eventually get to access your truths - not society's, not other people's, and not what's expected of you - but your own truths. Also it has very much taught me who I am and what I stand for to the point that a room full of people can disapprove of or disagree with me and while it's not comfortable for me, I don't knuckle under either. A wonderful thing to have indeed. Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

My cousin-in-law in Scotland was in very serious car accident that rendered him completely disabled. He could no longer work. The healthcare system bought them a paid-for HOUSE that was mobility accessible. I'm sure Ishbel could attest to how they take care of their own in the UKIt amazes me how much better some other countries take care of their own people and how so many Americans are not even aware of this or if they are, are perfectly fine with this arrangement, even with the economy and the personal financial situation of so many becoming more and more iffy by the day. As I said above, my personal truth on this one is very different from most others. Rob

[Spartana]

Rob - If I was you I would hang onto Medicaid for now. If you aren't comfortable using it until your stuff gets straightened out, then you can just hang on to it in case of emergency. I understand your worry - that if you use it and for some reason they come back and say you are denied, then you'll have to repay all that medical care. That IS very scary but I know it's happening to other people too as the states start checking for Medicaid fraud. I'm sure lots of people who really aren't qualified signed up and maybe lied about their finances/income or residency status. You might be just a red flag to them because of your work history - i.e. working out of state at various seasonal jobs. They may just want to make sure you are truely an AZ resident and that your earnings were correctly stated. Once you get them that info then I'm sure everything will get cleared up. But for now just keep the Medicaid but don't use it. Since there are no monthly premiums like with other subsidized health insurance, you won't get dinged on having to repay those premiums if they find you aren't actually entitled to Medicaid. And if you are entitled to it, it will be cleared up shortly I'm sure.

[citrine]

I also think that you should keep the Medicaid until things get sorted out. Also, by airing out your grievances, the root/how you relate to others chakras were cleared out....that helped your back since the root chakra is the pelvic area and the core (belly area from under rib cage to above pelvic) is how you relate to others.

[gimmethesimplelife]

Here's yet another update. Today, Friday, as I arrived home there were two letters from DES - one telling me that my application for expanded Medicaid was denied 12/31/2013 (but when I call the HMO I am active in their system) and another one asking me for income verification FOR A FORTH TIME!!!!! I have two more physical therapy appointments left that I will honor and go to and other than that I can't see myself ever using the card again. Unless there is a major emergency I'd prefer to be done with American healthcare - it is just too much of a nightmare and too much a source of fear for me - and others I know, too. I will finish up school as I have made a commitment to it - after that I don't know. Whatever thin strand held me to this system, it's cut now. Maybe I'm best off now that it's been cut. I certainly care about things like politics a lot less now and not having any faith any longer I'm relieved of any expectations now, too. So it's not all bad.

And once again, Mexicali is only five hours away - no one needs to tell me how VERY VERY VERY LUCKY I am for that. It is worth paying the fine to be free of such fear, I've decided to accept that and walk away from the system. Rob

PS I just thought of something - my Austrian aunt's advice that if she lived in the US she's always have two bags packed to run at any time - ironic that it may just be health care - the one issue I am so very passionate about as many of you know - that drives me out. I am grateful as I get older that I am blessed with being able to see the irony in so much.

[gimmethesimplelife]

Rob - If I was you I would hang onto Medicaid for now. If you aren't comfortable using it until your stuff gets straightened out, then you can just hang on to it in case of emergency. I understand your worry - that if you use it and for some reason they come back and say you are denied, then you'll have to repay all that medical care. That IS very scary but I know it's happening to other people too as the states start checking for Medicaid fraud. I'm sure lots of people who really aren't qualified signed up and maybe lied about their finances/income or residency status. You might be just a red flag to them because of your work history - i.e. working out of state at various seasonal jobs. They may just want to make sure you are truely an AZ resident and that your earnings were correctly stated. Once you get them that info then I'm sure everything will get cleared up. But for now just keep the Medicaid but don't use it. Since there are no monthly premiums like with other subsidized health insurance, you won't get dinged on having to repay those premiums if they find you aren't actually entitled to Medicaid. And if you are entitled to it, it will be cleared up shortly I'm sure.You are right, Spartana, the fact that I was completely honest in regards to my income and with this honest income qualified for expanded Medicaid in Arizona as per the new guidelines under ObamaCare but still may be getting stuck with bills - this is beyond terror. There is a part of me that wants out of America so so so bad as it seems the final straw, and also a part of me that wants to go to any lengths to fight this so that others may be less vulnerable to such terror. I guess it's the Scorpio in me - everything is extreme and intense and brutally honest to begin with added on to what I consider legitimate long standing fears of lack of accessibility and cost of the system to begin with......

One thing I will say though that may surprise some - if this is how ObamaCare is to be, I wish it had never happened to begin with. At the moment I am a bit embarrassed for my support of it - though I still am glad that my friend Marissa was able to have her tumor surgery done and I'm further glad she has a place to run to in Guadalajara if she starts getting such letters. Rob

[Blackdog Lin]

A recent little anecdotal Obamacare story: we went today to pick up a largish order of meat from an area grocery store. The meat dept. manager has been very helpful and nice with our orders over the last year. Today we had to wait for him to cut and package the order, even though he had called us 2 weeks ago to tell us about the sale, and we called and confirmed 2 days ago that we'd be over today to pick it up.

He explains and apologizes to us that he's been way overworked, his employer has cut out all but two of the full-time positions (his and one other) solely due to Obamacare. The rest of the help (don't know how many) have been cut back to 28 hours/week to keep them under the minimums for mandatory providing of health insurance. He was still nice, but obviously harried and stressed.

And then I just think about it's not just that his job has become so much worse, but those other employees only getting 28 hours a week, and then how are they finding second jobs to make up the difference (you can't live/pay family bills on 28 hours/week), and back in the day, being a butcher would at least provide you with a decent middle-class lifestyle, and what kind of shift hours might people have to be working to make up the difference (Quick Stores?), and how are their kids getting along with Mom and Dad in and out of the house at all hours just trying to make a living, and all kinds of other family things that this kind of thing effects.

And it kind of brought it all home to me. I'm lucky, Obamacare doesn't really affect me (yet?). But all these other people dealing with "the unintended consequences" of Obamacare.....

I think it sucks.

[gimmethesimplelife]

A recent little anecdotal Obamacare story: we went today to pick up a largish order of meat from an area grocery store. The meat dept. manager has been very helpful and nice with our orders over the last year. Today we had to wait for him to cut and package the order, even though he had called us 2 weeks ago to tell us about the sale, and we called and confirmed 2 days ago that we'd be over today to pick it up.

He explains and apologizes to us that he's been way overworked, his employer has cut out all but two of the full-time positions (his and one other) solely due to Obamacare. The rest of the help (don't know how many) have been cut back to 28 hours/week to keep them under the minimums for mandatory providing of health insurance. He was still nice, but obviously harried and stressed.

And then I just think about it's not just that his job has become so much worse, but those other employees only getting 28 hours a week, and then how are they finding second jobs to make up the difference (you can't live/pay family bills on 28 hours/week), and back in the day, being a butcher would at least provide you with a decent middle-class lifestyle, and what kind of shift hours might people have to be working to make up the difference (Quick Stores?), and how are their kids getting along with Mom and Dad in and out of the house at all hours just trying to make a living, and all kinds of other family things that this kind of thing effects.

And it kind of brought it all home to me. I'm lucky, Obamacare doesn't really affect me (yet?). But all these other people dealing with "the unintended consequences" of Obamacare.....

I think it sucks.There are those here who may be surprised at my recent 180 but you know something? If this is how it is to be, I'm starting to think it sucks too. Gotta say at least we made an attempt to do something about health care in the US, and so many other countries have systems that seem to work, why can't we get this one right or at least not so messed up? And I think you are right too about all kinds of unintended consequences.....I wonder how health care in the US is going to look five years from now? I bet the border doctors are smiling big time now as their services are going to be more and more and more in demand as time passes, based on what I'm seeing so far.....Rob

[ApatheticNoMore]

He explains and apologizes to us that he's been way overworked, his employer has cut out all but two of the full-time positions (his and one other) solely due to Obamacare.

I think this is extremely unlikely. Wasn't the employer mandate dropped (for the time being)? So if employers have no actual mandate to cover full time workers, how can cutting hours be due to Obamacare? Is there some other aspect of Obamacare that would lead to hours being cut besides the employer mandate? But one could argue the employer mandate will go into effect eventually. Ok maybe it will and maybe it won't (I wouldn't be so certain but ok it's not a terrible business assumption to assume the law passed would actually be the law even though it's not now), but even assuming it will, why is that a good reason to cut hours NOW? Unless one anticipated what? A vastly better job market then so better get the cuts in now or something? (and even that's kind of iffy because it relies on workers being loyal to a company that only gives them part-time work and not lured away in a better job market).

Hours may have just been cut because the economy is bad, sales and profits are down, there is little need for labor, they don't have to maintain employee loyalty in such a bad economy, etc.

[gimmethesimplelife]

Just came back to say I've slept on all of this. What a learning curve this whole experience has been for me! I now find myself wanting to live more independent of the system while I am here in school - I don't honestly know what I will be doing in the future at this point. I'm not talking of moving to the country and becoming a hard core prepper - I'm talking more of continuing to stockpile food, to grow more of my own food (I have some pics of some beets I recently dug up and I wish I could download them here!), buying less and less and supporting small business when I do spend money, and looking into solar as an energy source. Maybe growing some of my own spices - cumin for example grows well here. Offshoring all medical and dental and vision to Mexico - goes without saying this point. Learning more about taking better care of myself and also more about herbal and alternative medicine. Just things I can do to be more independent of the system, without going totally overboard about it. Rob

PS And I'm really sorry I supported ObamaCare now - those of you who put up with my posts about it for so long - Thank You is all I can say. I think differently on this one topic now but I did not know in advance that I would be vulnerable to such government incompetence. I really didn't know this.

[Spartana]

I think this is extremely unlikely. Wasn't the employer mandate dropped (for the time being)? So if employers have no actual mandate to cover full time workers, how can cutting hours be due to Obamacare? Is there some other aspect of Obamacare that would lead to hours being cut besides the employer mandate? But one could argue the employer mandate will go into effect eventually. Ok maybe it will and maybe it won't (I wouldn't be so certain but ok it's not a terrible business assumption to assume the law passed would actually be the law even though it's not now), but even assuming it will, why is that a good reason to cut hours NOW? Unless one anticipated what? A vastly better job market then so better get the cuts in now or something? (and even that's kind of iffy because it relies on workers being loyal to a company that only gives them part-time work and not lured away in a better job market).

Hours may have just been cut because the economy is bad, sales and profits are down, there is little need for labor, they don't have to maintain employee loyalty in such a bad economy, etc.I don't know... Seems like it's been happening a lot thru out the country. Now there is a GOP Bill (with some Dems onboard as well) to make part time be considered as anything less than 40 hours/week rather than the current 30 hours/week for the Obamacare employer mandate. The idea is that employers won't cut hours below 30/week to avoid paying benefits but will keep them at 39/week or so. Of course on the other side it means that many that already provide coverage for employees who work 30 - 39 hours/week will no longer have to. Probably won't pass. There is also an IRS law that requires employers to look back a year for the total amount of hours a seasonal employee worked (Rob), total up those hours, and average them to see if the person worked 30 or more/week. If they do, then the employer has to offer them paid health insurance coverage. This is because those seasonal employees often huge amounts of OT and, depending on their length of employment, it might mean they can be considered full time workers (i.e. 30 hours/week or more) for the year. So now the rumor mill is saying that places who hire seasonal workers will also be cutting back on hiring.

http://news.investors.com/politics-obamacare/020314-669013-obamacare-employer-mandate-a-list-of-cuts-to-work-hours-jobs.htm

ETA: I also read somewhere that there is a rule somewhere in the ACA employer mandate that says something to the effect that if an employer cuts employee hours down to part time AFTER the ACA employer mandate is implemented, then that employer can be fined. So if that's true then it would make sense that employers would start making changes long before the employer mandate began. And remember - the employer mandate WAS suppose to start in early 2014 so many employers made those changes from full time to part time (or just reduced staff to under 50) before the employer mandate was delayed. They probably aren't likely to increase hours or hire more employees know that mandate will still be in effect next year. Easier to just make current F/T employees work a huge amount of OT.

[rodeosweetheart]

It has already decimated academia, where something like 70-75 % of the courses are taught by adjuncts. Adjuncts are now losing classes right and left, the schools just hiring more adjuncts, so as to not go over 2 classes per semester, to keep from running afoul of anything that would be considered full time.

It has affected us in how our schools assign adjunct courses, so that our income has gone down.

Here's an article about it in the Chronicle:

http://chronicle.com/article/Colleges-Curb-Adjuncts-Hours/138653/

[gimmethesimplelife]

Shudder. I am not the only one out there having adverse effects due to this law, and the law has only just begun....kind of like that that old Karen Carpenter song, We've Only Just Begun (but not in a good way). I just had an interesting idea though....every dark cloud, silver lining....since I live in such a conservative state, I could send an email or two to Republican representatives and see if their offices could intervene to get my ObamaCare cancelled. They are very anti-ObamaCare and might just love to hear from someone totally disillusioned with it if like myself I tone the rhetoric down a bit and replace words like fear and terror with something along the lines of "very concerned", "worried", etc. It's worth a try, anyway. Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

I don't know... Seems like it's been happening a lot thru out the country. Now there is a GOP Bill (with some Dems onboard as well) to make part time be considered as anything less than 40 hours/week rather than the current 30 hours/week for the Obamacare employer mandate. The idea is that employers won't cut hours below 30/week to avoid paying benefits but will keep them at 39/week or so. Of course on the other side it means that many that already provide coverage for employees who work 30 - 39 hours/week will no longer have to. Probably won't pass. There is also an IRS law that requires employers to look back a year for the total amount of hours a seasonal employee worked (Rob), total up those hours, and average them to see if the person worked 30 or more/week. If they do, then the employer has to offer them paid health insurance coverage. This is because those seasonal employees often huge amounts of OT and, depending on their length of employment, it might mean they can be considered full time workers (i.e. 30 hours/week or more) for the year. So now the rumor mill is saying that places who hire seasonal workers will also be cutting back on hiring.

http://news.investors.com/politics-obamacare/020314-669013-obamacare-employer-mandate-a-list-of-cuts-to-work-hours-jobs.htm

ETA: I also read somewhere that there is a rule somewhere in the ACA employer mandate that says something to the effect that if an employer cuts employee hours down to part time AFTER the ACA employer mandate is implemented, then that employer can be fined. So if that's true then it would make sense that employers would start making changes long before the employer mandate began. And remember - the employer mandate WAS suppose to start in early 2014 so many employers made those changes from full time to part time (or just reduced staff to under 50) before the employer mandate was delayed. They probably aren't likely to increase hours or hire more employees know that mandate will still be in effect next year. Easier to just make current F/T employees work a huge amount of OT.I read the article you posted Spartana, and I feel further disillusioned. It seems as if America is stuck in a hole there is no way to get out of other than leaving it, and I'm not unaware that there are all kinds of problems in other countries around the world, too. I don't feel good about how this is going to end but I'd also bet that scattered here and there, there are those secretly overjoyed about having a valid socially acceptable excuse for not working F/T if they can afford to work fewer hours due to these cuts. But that is probably not a high percentage of those suffering these cuts. Rob

[ApatheticNoMore]

many of these trends were in existence before Obamacare even if Obamacare doesn't help any (look the worst part of Obamacare in my mind is it requires people to buy from private corporations which is a much worse precedent than taxes which we already have anyway). To blame too much of the worsening of jobs on Obamacare is ridiculous. And it wont' be improved by just getting rid of Obamacare (though yes single payer would do some good). Unionization would be a better bet than getting rid of Obamacare to improve worker hours and pay. Can they really outsource adjuncts? If not then they have power in numbers ...

By the way I am completely opposed to the move to raise the cutoff to 40 hours. Yes it will mean those working between 30-40 hours won't get health insurance. Other countries in the world have actual protections for workers to choose to work part-time, actual legal protections (countries like Germany, even though in those countries of course healthcare is NOT AN ISSUE!). So the U.S. is the only country in the world that will enforce an absolute 40 hour week minimum and by healthcare blackmail too. We really are slaves.

[iris lily]

Just came back to say I've slept on all of this. What a learning curve this whole experience has been for me! I now find myself wanting to live more independent of the system while I am here in school - I don't honestly know what I will be doing in the future at this point. I'm not talking of moving to the country and becoming a hard core prepper - I'm talking more of continuing to stockpile food, to grow more of my own food (I have some pics of some beets I recently dug up and I wish I could download them here!), buying less and less and supporting small business when I do spend money, and looking into solar as an energy source. Maybe growing some of my own spices - cumin for example grows well here. Offshoring all medical and dental and vision to Mexico - goes without saying this point. Learning more about taking better care of myself and also more about herbal and alternative medicine. Just things I can do to be more independent of the system, without going totally overboard about it. Rob

PS And I'm really sorry I supported ObamaCare now - those of you who put up with my posts about it for so long - Thank You is all I can say. I think differently on this one topic now but I did not know in advance that I would be vulnerable to such government incompetence. I really didn't know this.

Winners and Losers in the Obamacare game.

Rob, ApatheticNoMore made this point upthread or on another thread and it is this: we all run into ridiculous incompetence, bureaucratic idiocy, and the like with private institutions too. Don't blame it all on the goobermnet. Insurance companies, financial brokers, the phone company, etc all can be maddening to deal with.

BUT-- (and it's a big BUT)

...in these cases one can nearly always find alternate service. Vote with your money. Take your business elsewhere.

And that's the critical problem when the goobermnet takes over the industry, there is no one else who can take your business. You are stuck (the generic "you.")

In reality there are winners and losers in the Obamacare game and I believe that you, personally, are a winner and will win out getting health care completely free. Score! I believe that there are many many losers in the Obamacare game. Earlier you were ok with being a winner, and with losers being just part of the deal. Now you fancy yourself a loser and "vulnerable to such government incompetence" you are down on Nanny G. Ok, whatever. I think you are wrong on that victim thing, but time will tell.

Meanwhile, I still can't wrap my head around Spartana's situation and the complexity of that. Talk about letting someone down, good old Nanny G just screwed her over big time. And she's not even complaining about it, she's out there identifying alternatives and keeping it all real.

ps let me add that I plan to become an Obamacare winner in the near future so I will join you on the winner's podium. That doesn't mean that I think it's good law or that it's good for the country, it's something I will utilize if it suits me. Thanks, Alan!

[gimmethesimplelife]

Hi, IL. The problem here? I have completely lost all faith in America. Period. It will not be coming back at this point. What's the big deal there you ask? I will never have the basic faith that if I use the card I will not be presented with a huge bill that will be a nightmare to deal with. It's gone now. I will never have the basic faith that these letters from DES will ever stop. It's gone now. Even if these issues were to magically be solved, the faith is permanently gone now. No getting it back. Ever. Done deal. Period.

As to being a winner/loser, I am not victim. I will vote by offshoring everything I possibly can from this point forward. And I am doubly not a victim as I live so close to the border that this is a realistic option. I have no real reason to complain other than complete and total disillusionment with America. Big deal. I'm not the first or the last who has been, is, or will be driven to that point. I'll get over it and do fine offshoring my health care as I said. But I will never trust or have faith in America again. Once again, big deal. I'm certainly not the only person I know who feels this way. My friend that had the tumor surgery done by ObamaCare? She came over, read all my DES letters, and already has a couple of bags packed and general paperwork organized just in case. I think to many Americans out there to this day, it might come as a shock how many people have no faith or hope in the system and to have bags packed and waiting is a sane thing to do. My guess is this is only going to get worse as time goes on. Rob



[sorry, used "edit" feature in error!--Iris]

[catherine]

I agree with IL--the fault is the foundation is cracked, broken, collapsing. Trying to remodel on top of it is just not going to work. It's not "America," it's not "Obama," it's not "Aetna," it's the fact that the paradigm that we are operating under is not going to work because the underpinnings and the basic assumptions are faulty. They do not work for this century. Maybe they did when the most expensive healthcare bill you could get was a few hundred dollars for the limited services that were available back then, but we have to tear it down, and look at the whole thing with new eyes.

I'm sorry you've lost faith in America, Rob, but for all its problems, we have everything we need here to fix it--the ingenuity, the optimism, the power of the people as long as we accept that power. I still believe that.

[gimmethesimplelife]

I agree with IL--the fault is the foundation is cracked, broken, collapsing. Trying to remodel on top of it is just not going to work. It's not "America," it's not "Obama," it's not "Aetna," it's the fact that the paradigm that we are operating under is not going to work because the underpinnings and the basic assumptions are faulty. They do not work for this century. Maybe they did when the most expensive healthcare bill you could get was a few hundred dollars for the limited services that were available back then, but we have to tear it down, and look at the whole thing with new eyes.

I'm sorry you've lost faith in America, Rob, but for all its problems, we have everything we need here to fix it--the ingenuity, the optimism, the power of the people as long as we accept that power. I still believe that.Believe it or not, Catherine, I'm glad someone out there still does believe that. It does give me a little hope to know that someone out there still does believe that. Rob

[Teacher Terry]

I am not personally benefiting from the ACA but it is really helping people to retire early due to not having to worry about insurance. I really am for a single payer system but until that happens this is great. As for living in fear of getting letters & having to pay the $ back-that is really silly. Just keep good records and answer things as they come up. Sure it is a pain but many things in life are.

[iris lily]

Hi, IL. The problem here? I have completely lost all faith in America. Period. It will not be coming back at this point. What's the big deal there you ask? I will never have the basic faith that if I use the card I will not be presented with a huge bill that will be a nightmare to deal with. It's gone now. I will never have the basic faith that these letters from DES will ever stop. It's gone now. Even if these issues were to magically be solved, the faith is permanently gone now. No getting it back. Ever. Done deal. Period.

As to being a winner/loser, I am not victim. I will vote by offshoring everything I possibly can from this point forward. And I am doubly not a victim as I live so close to the border that this is a realistic option. I have no real reason to complain other than complete and total disillusionment with America. Big deal. I'm not the first or the last who has been, is, or will be driven to that point. I'll get over it and do fine offshoring my health care as I said. But I will never trust or have faith in America again. Once again, big deal. I'm certainly not the only person I know who feels this way. My friend that had the tumor surgery done by ObamaCare? She came over, read all my DES letters, and already has a couple of bags packed and general paperwork organized just in case. I think to many Americans out there to this day, it might come as a shock how many people have no faith or hope in the system and to have bags packed and waiting is a sane thing to do. My guess is this is only going to get worse as time goes on. Rob


I continue to be fascinated with the bag packers and their escape plan. Do they have independent income that can be accessed in these other countries that will welcome them (and their health problems) with open arms? Or are the countries just gonna open up the treasury for them. Really, what IS the practical plan?

This is not to say that expat life is a crock. It's great for some people. I personally am attracted to the Eastern Europe expat scenarios. I think Mexico sucks, but that's just me.

But I would fully expect to have an income stream to support my lifestyle overseas. Not sure what your bag packing friends have for resources.

[Teacher Terry]

I also hate Mexico-one vacation there was sufficient! I don't think there is a practical plan-just a lot of complaining & fantasizing.

[gimmethesimplelife]

I also hate Mexico-one vacation there was sufficient! I don't think there is a practical plan-just a lot of complaining & fantasizing.FYI - I have been going to Mexico for my health care and dental for years and have had nothing but good experiences. An example I can give you - and please, please, please find a way to rationalize this one away - is in September of 2012 when I took a bus to Mexicali for a series of ultrasounds related to gallstones/gall bladder issues. I was quoted $900 here in Phoenix without insurance. In Mexicali at a sterile, clean, spotless hospital with modern equipment I paid US $58.50. The name of the hospital is Hospital Almeter on Avenida Madero, if anyone is interested. Given the incompetence and harassment of DES, I'm much much much better off going where the ultrasounds are $58.50. If you can't see this, there is nothing I can say that will change your mind and given that I'm a mod here it is for the best that I agree to disagree with you. Rob

PS I'd be open to passing along medical/dental/optical references and recent prices if you are open to receiving such, though.

[gimmethesimplelife]

I continue to be fascinated with the bag packers and their escape plan. Do they have independent income that can be accessed in these other countries that will welcome them (and their health problems) with open arms? Or are the countries just gonna open up the treasury for them. Really, what IS the practical plan?

This is not to say that expat life is a crock. It's great for some people. I personally am attracted to the Eastern Europe expat scenarios. I think Mexico sucks, but that's just me.

But I would fully expect to have an income stream to support my lifestyle overseas. Not sure what your bag packing friends have for resources.My friend Marissa I keep mentioning is a dual US/Mexican national. She would just go back home to Guadalajara and permanently give up on the US were DES to start harassing her. She has family that would gladly take her in. My experience with a lot of the backpackers you mention is that most have some kind of income coming in from the Internet - many hawk something or have some skill that can be done at a great distance away. Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

I am not personally benefiting from the ACA but it is really helping people to retire early due to not having to worry about insurance. I really am for a single payer system but until that happens this is great. As for living in fear of getting letters & having to pay the $ back-that is really silly. Just keep good records and answer things as they come up. Sure it is a pain but many things in life are.I'm not saying this is bad advice per se. The problem is that it takes faith and some small amount of trust in the system to maintain this action/this line of thinking and I no longer have either. At this point I'm best off turning my back on it and not looking back. This is how little faith I have in the system/country/way of doing things I live under. I get that all are not going to see things this way - but this is my reality, based on my life experiences to date in America. Your mileage may indeed vary, once again, I get this - but that does not mean my reality is invalid any more than it means that your reality is invalid. This is my reality, though. No one says you need to agree with me or see things my way. Fair enough. Rob

[Teacher Terry]

Rob, it is a matter that I think you are overreacting. I know how hard it can be to deal with insurance companies. I think I mentioned it took me 2 years of countless phone calls to get my hubby's cancer treatment fully paid for. Finally gathered all the papers & did a face to face meeting. I am glad they had a local office. I did not say it would be easy but if you keep good records things can be done. I just personally hate Mexico & have zero interest in ever going back. I am not doubting that you can get cheap health care.

[Spartana]

[B]

Meanwhile, I still can't wrap my head around Spartana's situation and the complexity of that. Talk about letting someone down, good old Nanny G just screwed her over big time. And she's not even complaining about it, she's out there identifying alternatives and keeping it all real.

ps let me add that I plan to become an Obamacare winner in the near future so I will join you on the winner's podium. That doesn't mean that I think it's good law or that it's good for the country, it's something I will utilize if it suits me. Thanks, Alan!Well I don't so much consider myself an Obamacare loser because "I" made the choice to quit my job and fund my own health insurance - knowing that it may rise over the years (just didn't expect my low cost plan to be thrown out and replaced with a new high cost plan with such a drastic price increase all at once as it did). If I don't like it (I don't) and don't have the income or assets to cover the increases (I do) then I could go back to work to either get employer health insurance or to earn the extra income to pay the new higher premiums I have under Obamacare - or, if I earned a higher taxable income and was willing to drop the VA medical coverage, then I could get subsidies for very low cost coverage. Heck I could work a couple of PT minimum wage jobs and earn enough to qualify for full subsidies. Rob could do that too instead of relying on Medicaid or fleeing to Mexico. If he was willing to earn approx. $16K/year he would only have to pay $1/month (yes one dollar - uno peso) for his health insurance premiums - and that includes platinum plans. And now with the pre-existing condition clause eliminated, anyone who is able to work or have at least a $16K/year income (single) they can get very low cost coverage via Obamacare subsidies regardless of their health issues. Of course that only covers premiums, so unless a low income person can get a Platinum plan cheaply with subisidies, then the annual out of pocket expenses may not be doable at all. Another failing of Obamacare but at least they are covered if anything big happens that is beyond their deductible. Better then nothing IMHO.

So no, I'm no loser and do see the good things about the ACA. It's not universal healthcare for all, and it has more problems and pitfalls then anticipated, and it isn't fair to higher (or lower) income earners, but still has some good parts to it. And I do have the VA as a back up so, now that I have finished all my medical tests and am good to go for another couple of years without needing care, I will probably drop my private coverage and just rely on the VA in case of a medical emergency (Thanks Alan!). And like Rob, I also have the option to sign up for Medicaid since I have a low taxable income. However that is not a route I want to go and would choose to work and earn the money to buy my own coverage if it came to that.

[ToomuchStuff]

You received another letter from them. HOW specifically do they ask for your information?

Sounds like (the way I read it) you went to a group that helped you sign up and submitted your stuff, electronically. I think that should have been followed up with photocopies, sent via USPS, certified, return receipt, or registered letter, to provide proof of receipt.

[gimmethesimplelife]

You received another letter from them. HOW specifically do they ask for your information?

Sounds like (the way I read it) you went to a group that helped you sign up and submitted your stuff, electronically. I think that should have been followed up with photocopies, sent via USPS, certified, return receipt, or registered letter, to provide proof of receipt.Actually, I received two letters from them, one telling me that my application for expanded Medicaid was denied as of 12/31/2013 - even though I received an HMO card and the HMO has been paying claims and tells me that I am active in their system. If that's not enough - this is the SECOND such letter I have received telling me this. I have to say here I have absolutely no faith period in DES or ObamaCare based on this, but wait, the plot thickens. The same day I received this letter I refer to here, I received my FOURTH letter in the mail asking for income verification. What is especially bile inducing is that they want to know how much money I made working for company X even though I told them twice I have not worked for company X since May 14, 2013. They still want to know once again how much I made working for this company in 2014 from Jan 1st through April 1st. This is proof to me that my letters are not being read.

I don't have what it takes to tolerate this when affordable non-threatening high quality health care is so close by. I also strongly believe that if I play the game and give them what they want once again, another letter will come a week later, this one causing yet more stress. Why should I accept this and why should I believe this is acceptable? So much easier just to give up on America as so many others have. I am there now already and there's a huge part of me that's relieved actually.

I will go to the navigator place once again and I will have documentation scanned off again but I am only doing this because I am so terrified of DES. I also don't like the idea of giving my tacit approval to DES treating others this way - certainly I am nothing special and others are being taxed to the edge also. I certainly don't think I am being singled out in any way, shape, or form.

I am so so so glad I don't have children. If I did, this would cause me to stop at nothing as a responsible parent to get them out of America - at least in my case this is gratefully not an issue. Rob

PS These two letters that I refer to receving? They arrived a mere 8 days after my last letter from DES. Too much, too quick, too much stress, and what in return for dealing with it?

And something else? I remember giving all kinds of praise to Jan Brewer for getting Medicaid expansion passed in Arizona. I now wish she had not done it. The end result would be exactly the same - I'd be forced to Mexico for health care but I wouldn't have DES to deal with and perhaps I wouldn't have completely given up on America....but this last is debatable because I've been right at the edge for years, so who knows?

And lastly, I'm kind of mad at myself.....for ever having any faith in the system to begin with. I really should have known better at my age. I have no excuse for that so I guess I have to take some of the blame.

[flowerseverywhere]

[QUOTE=gimmethesimplelife;173108Too much, too quick, too much stress, and what in return for dealing with it?
.[/QUOTE]
You get free healthcare for dealing with it. Pretty big payback if you ask me.

life is a hassle. If you want to live in modern society you have to put up with the hassle. Unless you live in a cave and eat berries modern life has to be dealt with. Modern technology is very costly. People here are paying enormous premiums, paying big taxes, and struggling to make ends meet. That is the price for modern life.

i love the US and am thankful that I have the opportunity to live in this great country that millions around the world would love to have the opportunity to live in.

[gimmethesimplelife]

You get free healthcare for dealing with it. Pretty big payback if you ask me.

life is a hassle. If you want to live in modern society you have to put up with the hassle. Unless you live in a cave and eat berries modern life has to be dealt with. Modern technology is very costly. People here are paying enormous premiums, paying big taxes, and struggling to make ends meet. That is the price for modern life.

i love the US and am thankful that I have the opportunity to live in this great country that millions around the world would love to have the opportunity to live in.Let me put this a different way. On any serving job I've ever had, if I made as many mistakes as DES has with me - repeatedly the same mistakes - I would have been let go except for brief periods when unemployment was so incredibly low that I could not be fired as I would have been to hard to replace. It is not - in my mind anyway - unrealistic for them to get it right the third time. And since I'm willing to walk away from free healthcare and pay for it in another country, what's the problem with that? I should think I'd be less of a drain on the system and that should be appreciated. Rob

PS I wouldn't be at all surprised in the coming years if my solution becomes more and more and more mainstream to the point where people start talking over water coolers over the merits of Dr. So And So vs. Dr. So And So in given Mexican (or other country) X.

[iris lily]

Well I don't so much consider myself an Obamacare loser because "I" made the choice to quit my job and fund my own health insurance - knowing that it may rise over the years (just didn't expect my low cost plan to be thrown out and replaced with a new high cost plan with such a drastic price increase all at once as it did). If I don't like it (I don't) and don't have the income or assets to cover the increases (I do) then I could go back to work to either get employer health insurance or to earn the extra income to pay the new higher premiums I have under Obamacare - or, if I earned a higher taxable income and was willing to drop the VA medical coverage, then I could get subsidies for very low cost coverage. Heck I could work a couple of PT minimum wage jobs and earn enough to qualify for full subsidies. Rob could do that too instead of relying on Medicaid or fleeing to Mexico. If he was willing to earn approx. $16K/year he would only have to pay $1/month (yes one dollar - uno peso) for his health insurance premiums - and that includes platinum plans. And now with the pre-existing condition clause eliminated, anyone who is able to work or have at least a $16K/year income (single) they can get very low cost coverage via Obamacare subsidies regardless of their health issues. Of course that only covers premiums, so unless a low income person can get a Platinum plan cheaply with subisidies, then the annual out of pocket expenses may not be doable at all. Another failing of Obamacare but at least they are covered if anything big happens that is beyond their deductible. Better then nothing IMHO.

So no, I'm no loser and do see the good things about the ACA. It's not universal healthcare for all, and it has more problems and pitfalls then anticipated, and it isn't fair to higher (or lower) income earners, but still has some good parts to it. And I do have the VA as a back up so, now that I have finished all my medical tests and am good to go for another couple of years without needing care, I will probably drop my private coverage and just rely on the VA in case of a medical emergency (Thanks Alan!). And like Rob, I also have the option to sign up for Medicaid since I have a low taxable income. However that is not a route I want to go and would choose to work and earn the money to buy my own coverage if it came to that.

Thanks for clarifying that. For some reason I thought that you were not able to get Medicare, but I understand that you do not choose to do that.

Nope, you are not a loser. :)

[gimmethesimplelife]

Well I don't so much consider myself an Obamacare loser because "I" made the choice to quit my job and fund my own health insurance - knowing that it may rise over the years (just didn't expect my low cost plan to be thrown out and replaced with a new high cost plan with such a drastic price increase all at once as it did). If I don't like it (I don't) and don't have the income or assets to cover the increases (I do) then I could go back to work to either get employer health insurance or to earn the extra income to pay the new higher premiums I have under Obamacare - or, if I earned a higher taxable income and was willing to drop the VA medical coverage, then I could get subsidies for very low cost coverage. Heck I could work a couple of PT minimum wage jobs and earn enough to qualify for full subsidies. Rob could do that too instead of relying on Medicaid or fleeing to Mexico. If he was willing to earn approx. $16K/year he would only have to pay $1/month (yes one dollar - uno peso) for his health insurance premiums - and that includes platinum plans. And now with the pre-existing condition clause eliminated, anyone who is able to work or have at least a $16K/year income (single) they can get very low cost coverage via Obamacare subsidies regardless of their health issues. Of course that only covers premiums, so unless a low income person can get a Platinum plan cheaply with subisidies, then the annual out of pocket expenses may not be doable at all. Another failing of Obamacare but at least they are covered if anything big happens that is beyond their deductible. Better then nothing IMHO.

So no, I'm no loser and do see the good things about the ACA. It's not universal healthcare for all, and it has more problems and pitfalls then anticipated, and it isn't fair to higher (or lower) income earners, but still has some good parts to it. And I do have the VA as a back up so, now that I have finished all my medical tests and am good to go for another couple of years without needing care, I will probably drop my private coverage and just rely on the VA in case of a medical emergency (Thanks Alan!). And like Rob, I also have the option to sign up for Medicaid since I have a low taxable income. However that is not a route I want to go and would choose to work and earn the money to buy my own coverage if it came to that.Just wanted to say I respect the route you are taking, too.....it seems to work for you and you are avoiding the issues I am facing. I'm glad you had your tests done and they came out OK and it's cool too that you have the VA for backup.....I didn't understand your thinking before I faced these issues with DES but now I think I'm getting it. Took long enough, huh? LOL. Please correct me if I am wrong here in this - we share something in common in the sense that we are dealing with this in our own way, on our own terms - you already are and once I walk away from Medicaid I will be too. Pretty cool I think.....Rob

[flowerseverywhere]

Let me put this a different way. On any serving job I've ever had, if I made as many mistakes as DES has with me - repeatedly the same mistakes - I would have been let go except for brief periods when unemployment was so incredibly low that I could not be fired as I would have been to hard to replace. It is not - in my mind anyway - unrealistic for them to get it right the third time. And since I'm willing to walk away from free healthcare and pay for it in another country, what's the problem with that? I should think I'd be less of a drain on the system and that should be appreciated. Rob

PS I wouldn't be at all surprised in the coming years if my solution becomes more and more and more mainstream to the point where people start talking over water coolers over the merits of Dr. So And So vs. Dr. So And So in given Mexican (or other country) X.
I was just replying to the question, what do you get in return for dealing with the hassle

[gimmethesimplelife]

I was just replying to the question, what do you get in return for dealing with the hassleFair enough, Flowerseverywhere. I was just trying to explain why I am so upset with DES in a different way that maybe would be easier for more people to understand. Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

Finally taking action. I just crafted what I consider a very calm and explanatory letter answering the issues that DES has raised and then politely requesting that my Arizona Medicaid just be cancelled. I explained that I found DES far too stressful to deal with and that I would be glad to pay the fine, walk away from the insurance, and just go to Mexico from this point forward. I'm hoping this will be honored. If nothing else they should find my letter interesting as I'm sure most of the letters they get are begging to get onto the Medicaid rolls and here I am begging to be let off the program. Will post the DES response. I'm not expecting anything helpful or sane at this point. I did tone down the rhetoric quite a bit as being inflammatory is not going to help me, I realize this. Amazing to me - this is something I have been wanting for years and now that I see what a nightmare it is going to be to deal with DES, I'm completely willing to give up on the system to the point where I even reject free insurance. I'm even willing to pay a fine to be out of the system. Even at the level of free insurance, America doesn't work for me. I realized this when I finished the letter. Absolutely amazing. I never really thought I'd reach this point but here I am. Rob

[ToomuchStuff]

TAKE A BREATH.


Actually, I received two letters from them, one telling me that my application for expanded Medicaid was denied as of 12/31/2013 - even though I received an HMO card and the HMO has been paying claims and tells me that I am active in their system. If that's not enough - this is the SECOND such letter I have received telling me this. I have to say here I have absolutely no faith period in DES or ObamaCare based on this, but wait, the plot thickens. The same day I received this letter I refer to here, I received my FOURTH letter in the mail asking for income verification. What is especially bile inducing is that they want to know how much money I made working for company X even though I told them twice I have not worked for company X since May 14, 2013. They still want to know once again how much I made working for this company in 2014 from Jan 1st through April 1st. This is proof to me that my letters are not being read.

I don't have what it takes to tolerate this when affordable non-threatening high quality health care is so close by. I also strongly believe that if I play the game and give them what they want once again, another letter will come a week later, this one causing yet more stress. Why should I accept this and why should I believe this is acceptable? So much easier just to give up on America as so many others have. I am there now already and there's a huge part of me that's relieved actually.

I will go to the navigator place once again and I will have documentation scanned off again but I am only doing this because I am so terrified of DES. I also don't like the idea of giving my tacit approval to DES treating others this way - certainly I am nothing special and others are being taxed to the edge also. I certainly don't think I am being singled out in any way, shape, or form.

I am so so so glad I don't have children. If I did, this would cause me to stop at nothing as a responsible parent to get them out of America - at least in my case this is gratefully not an issue. Rob

PS These two letters that I refer to receving? They arrived a mere 8 days after my last letter from DES. Too much, too quick, too much stress, and what in return for dealing with it?

And something else? I remember giving all kinds of praise to Jan Brewer for getting Medicaid expansion passed in Arizona. I now wish she had not done it. The end result would be exactly the same - I'd be forced to Mexico for health care but I wouldn't have DES to deal with and perhaps I wouldn't have completely given up on America....but this last is debatable because I've been right at the edge for years, so who knows?

And lastly, I'm kind of mad at myself.....for ever having any faith in the system to begin with. I really should have known better at my age. I have no excuse for that so I guess I have to take some of the blame.

I caught that the first time. WHAT I am asking, is EXACTLY how do they SPECIFY, THEY WANT THE RESPONSE? (wondering if the service your using is following the services directions for submitting and not the official instructions)

[gimmethesimplelife]

TAKE A BREATH.



I caught that the first time. WHAT I am asking, is EXACTLY how do they SPECIFY, THEY WANT THE RESPONSE? (wondering if the service your using is following the services directions for submitting and not the official instructions)Via fax or scan is how they want the response. To date, all responses have been scanned from the Keough Health Foundation here in Phoenix, who have the navigation reps I have dealt with to date. Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

Just for the heck of it I called the Customer Service Number listed on the health.gov website, thinking nothing would come of it. I reached a representative who advised me to call the State Insurance Board locally here in Phoenix and it turns out that their office isn't even all that far away from me. The rep I spoke to advised filing a complaint which I find very bizarre as I am quite willing to walk away from the insurance and pay the fine, a fact I stressed more than once, and I was told that to process such an issue a complaint would have to be filed anyway. Fair enough. So I'll try calling them tomorrow, it can't hurt I guess. Rob

I could be wrong but from what I'm hearing so far, this insurance is not going to be easy to exit from.....ugggggh, I feel so stupid now that this was so important to me. Live and learn I guess. I have to say that I was a little peeved that when I said I'd donate plasma again if I had to when the fine bumps up past $600, the rep actually said Oh My God. I wonder how she'd feel in my situation. Maybe she might not be so quick to walk away from the insurance but I'd wager she'd be unhappy.

This whole situation is reinforcing something else I believe in - walk a mile in someone else's shoes, then judge. Rob

[ToomuchStuff]

Via scan, is there any confirmation number?

If there is, then what you MAY be dealing with, is something I just had a discussion with a government employee about. Cause for termination, is and can be a long process in Government work. They have to let the person keep screwing up (while the supervisor tells the affected person how to cover themselves), until the termination process goes through. You might be one of the screw ups the supervisor needs.

[Spartana]

Thanks for clarifying that. For some reason I thought that you were not able to get Medicare, but I understand that you do not choose to do that.

Nope, you are not a loser. :)It was Medicaid (free coverage for us po' folks " :-)) and not medicare (for those 65 and over). Have to wait a decade or so for medicare (will it still be there then?). Basiclly I AM eligible for Medicaid - but only Medicaid not subsidies. My low cost plan was cancelled because of Obamacare and the only choice I had was either accept Medicaid or buy my own much more expensive coverage and pay for it in full without subsidies since I was TOO low income (by choice) to qualify for subsidies here in Calif since it has expanded Medicaid. So my policy premiums increased by over 3 times the former amount, with a much greater annual premium and out of pocket costs. I didn't want Medicaid (for many reasons) and couldn't buy a policy off the exchanges, so had to buy an expenses private policy directly from an insurer. I had thought of just going back to work seasonal PT to increase my income enough to qualify for subsidies, but because I have a military-service connected disability and use the VA hospital for care for that, I can't qualify for subsidies anyways unless I drop out of the VA. Something I will not do.

So, at this time, I have chosen to buy an expensive private plan rather than go on Medicaid (and to be honest I don't know if I can get Medicaid anyways since I have the VA), but will drop that that private plan soon and just use the VA - something I hate to do because of the difficultly in getting care (months long waits). But it's free or low cost so that's what I'll do until I can find a more affordable private policy. So in a way, while my low cost plan was cancelled because of Obamacare and I am denied subsidies that higher income earners get to buy an affordable plan, I really have a lot of choices for affordable medical coverage - the VA or Medicaid or pay the big bucks myself to buy an expensive plan myself. Not choices I like but choices. But if I were in a situation like Robs (low income) and if I didn't have the ability to use the VA or qualify for Medicaid (or didn't want to use it like Rob or I) I would just choose to get a PT or seasonal job for a bit to increase my income enough to qualify for subsidies rather than rely on Medicaid and all it's problems.

[Spartana]

Just wanted to say I respect the route you are taking, too.....it seems to work for you and you are avoiding the issues I am facing. I'm glad you had your tests done and they came out OK and it's cool too that you have the VA for backup.....I didn't understand your thinking before I faced these issues with DES but now I think I'm getting it. Took long enough, huh? LOL. Please correct me if I am wrong here in this - we share something in common in the sense that we are dealing with this in our own way, on our own terms - you already are and once I walk away from Medicaid I will be too. Pretty cool I think.....RobIf I had no other choices - meaning I was too ill or disabled to be able to work or couldn't earn enough no matter how hard I worked to buy affordable coverage with subsidies, I didn't have the income or assets to buy my own private policy, or I couldn't use the VA - then I would go on Medicaid. I believe that Medicaid is exactly for those kinds of situations. I don't look at going to Mexico (or any country) as a solution for my medical care except for those things that can be pre-planned. It won't help me if I am in car accident here and am transported to a local hospital and have to receive treatment - expensive treatment I would have to pay for myself and which would wipe me out financially or for which I'd have to claim bankruptcy. So unless I was a citizen in another country (something I'm not willing to do) I would never rely on a foreign nation to cover my medical expenses. As I said above, I think many things about Obamacare are great, and if I were in your situation - a younger able bodied person who can work FT - then that's what I'd choose to do in order to buy my own low cost subsidized policy on the exchanges rather than go on Medicaid or depend on Mexico (unless you choose to become a citizen there). I don't think that true universal healthcare for everyone regardless of income or assets will ever happen in our lifetime, and until it does we have to share the costs of such thing like medical insurance and not depend on the government for that 100%.

PS Rob if I were you I would not cancel Medicaid and go insuranceless unless you have no assets what so ever - or don't plan on having any assets in the future which could be garnished. As I stated above, you currently live in this country and if something happens to you physically while here (or even in Mexico) you will have to bear the full costs of any care you receive. That could total in the 10's of thousand of dollars or more if it's something big. I would just keep plugging away at getting things straigtened out with Medicaid (and document that what you are doing) until you actually do move to mexico and become a citizen (if you decide to go that route - something I'd think very seriously about before giving up US citizenship).

[sweetana3]

Does anyone else realize that anything!!!!!!!!!!!submitted to any governmental agency of any kind is never immediately responded to and very very often letters cross in the mail. At the IRS, unless you are assigned to one employee and this is rare, ALL correspondence is sorted by date received and worked in that order. If a response is received even two weeks before another letter is scheduled to go out it is 99% guaranteed for the second letter to go out. When it is worked all depends on the number of employees assigned to the category. I once was dealing with correspondence that got 180 days old and had been passed around and around and then just sat because of lack of employees.

The states have often even worse records. Depends on the number of employees they have assigned to work the cases. I suspect that they have been hammered with this whole issue and it is the first year they have had to sort out the increased issues both correspondence and phones.

[peggy]

Wow!
Rob, you really need to chill out! Are you really going to declare defeat at the FIRST letter? It's just a letter dude. You know, not everything is easy. Sometimes you have to put forth a bit of effort, and that includes answering questions. You didn't really think they would just take one look at you and say "Sure, let's give him some healthcare"

You can't have it both ways. You can't complain, on the one hand that 'Everyone is gaming the system..THEY just keep gaining the system...cheats and liars and yada yada yada...."
then, complain that they are TOO careful and complete in investigating if you are eligible. You really can't have it both ways!

Maybe you should contact the Koch Brothers and do a commercial. Then you will have the opinion of every reality based person in the country as to how to proceed, cause guy, I think even those here against the healthcare laws can see you really don't have a case against Obamacare. KWIM? ;)

And then maybe you should just move to Mexico. Clearly you don't want to live in America or be an american. Go where you will be happiest. Follow your heart. No one will hold it against you. :)

[Alan]

Maybe you should contact the Koch Brothers and do a commercial.
You've been listening to Harry Reid haven't you? You know he's got a Koch problem...

:+1: on the rest of your post though.

[gimmethesimplelife]

Wow!
Rob, you really need to chill out! Are you really going to declare defeat at the FIRST letter? It's just a letter dude. You know, not everything is easy. Sometimes you have to put forth a bit of effort, and that includes answering questions. You didn't really think they would just take one look at you and say "Sure, let's give him some healthcare"

You can't have it both ways. You can't complain, on the one hand that 'Everyone is gaming the system..THEY just keep gaining the system...cheats and liars and yada yada yada...."
then, complain that they are TOO careful and complete in investigating if you are eligible. You really can't have it both ways!

Maybe you should contact the Koch Brothers and do a commercial. Then you will have the opinion of every reality based person in the country as to how to proceed, cause guy, I think even those here against the healthcare laws can see you really don't have a case against Obamacare. KWIM? ;)

And then maybe you should just move to Mexico. Clearly you don't want to live in America or be an american. Go where you will be happiest. Follow your heart. No one will hold it against you. :)Peggy, it's not the first letter, it's the FOURTH. Four letters for income verification, and two telling me my application for Expanded Medicaid was denied, even though I was sent an HMO card and the HMO says I am active in their system. Something's not smelling right in Pittsburgh here. Under those conditions, would you not fear and distrust? Rob PS I'm all for income verification, no problem there. But FOUR times? How can I possibly trust I won't be sent huge bills if I use the card, given the givens of DES incompetence that I am highlighting here? Maybe some people can dredge up trust under these conditions but I am not one of them.

And I'm really not bringing a case up against ObamaCare, I'm just saying I don't have any faith in it anymore, based on this DES incompetence. Unfortunately, any faith I had in this country was hanging by the thinnest of threads and these issues with ObamaCare cut that thread. And what's even crazier is that the HMO won't cancel the policy for me - I wanted it cancelled as I am afraid to use it now - due to DES incompetence - and the taxpayers are picking up the tab for a policy I am afraid to use and I will be going to Mexico out of my own pocket for health care now so as to not deal with the insurance and potential future DES incompetence and/or future - so for four - DES letters asking the same thing over and over. Clearly, in my case, ObamaCare has failed me - and the taxpayers, too. Had I known that this would be such an issue, I would have never applied and just accepted the fine and continued crossing the border for health care. Rob

[razz]

Gimme, why don't you simply let it sort itself out over the coming year. Getting something like insurance of any kind implemented is an enormous undertaking. If it gives you peace of mind, get your care in Mexico for the near future and see what happens.

[gimmethesimplelife]

If I had no other choices - meaning I was too ill or disabled to be able to work or couldn't earn enough no matter how hard I worked to buy affordable coverage with subsidies, I didn't have the income or assets to buy my own private policy, or I couldn't use the VA - then I would go on Medicaid. I believe that Medicaid is exactly for those kinds of situations. I don't look at going to Mexico (or any country) as a solution for my medical care except for those things that can be pre-planned. It won't help me if I am in car accident here and am transported to a local hospital and have to receive treatment - expensive treatment I would have to pay for myself and which would wipe me out financially or for which I'd have to claim bankruptcy. So unless I was a citizen in another country (something I'm not willing to do) I would never rely on a foreign nation to cover my medical expenses. As I said above, I think many things about Obamacare are great, and if I were in your situation - a younger able bodied person who can work FT - then that's what I'd choose to do in order to buy my own low cost subsidized policy on the exchanges rather than go on Medicaid or depend on Mexico (unless you choose to become a citizen there). I don't think that true universal healthcare for everyone regardless of income or assets will ever happen in our lifetime, and until it does we have to share the costs of such thing like medical insurance and not depend on the government for that 100%.

PS Rob if I were you I would not cancel Medicaid and go insuranceless unless you have no assets what so ever - or don't plan on having any assets in the future which could be garnished. As I stated above, you currently live in this country and if something happens to you physically while here (or even in Mexico) you will have to bear the full costs of any care you receive. That could total in the 10's of thousand of dollars or more if it's something big. I would just keep plugging away at getting things straigtened out with Medicaid (and document that what you are doing) until you actually do move to mexico and become a citizen (if you decide to go that route - something I'd think very seriously about before giving up US citizenship).Your last paragraph, Spartana? Under normal conditions, this would be both very good and very sane advice, about holding on to Medicaid for emergency situations such a stroke or heart attack. The only problem is I don't have any faith that I won't get huge bills in the mail after FOUR income verifications letters, all asking the same thing.....I'm completely unable to trust at this point. At least in Mexico, I know I am going to get decent care at a sane price and I just pay cash - or charge if I have to - and then it's magically over. No DES letters, no fear, no risk of huge bills in the mail due to DES incompetence.....Ironically, the one thing that kept me here - ObamaCare - may be the one thing that ends out driving me out. Interesting irony there! Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

You've been listening to Harry Reid haven't you? You know he's got a Koch problem...

!thumbsup! on the rest of your post though.All right, I have to admit something here. I know very little about the Koch brothers though I have heard the name before. I will do some googling and see what the deal is with them.....Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

Gimme, why don't you simply let it sort itself out over the coming year. Getting something like insurance of any kind implemented is an enormous undertaking. If it gives you peace of mind, get your care in Mexico for the near future and see what happens.I suppose this is an option too - I could just lock up the card and wait a year and just go to Mexico for a year for health care. I think it's crazy though that the taxpayers are picking up the tab for a policy I am frightened to use - but you do raise a point I have to agree with. No one says I have to use it and there is no legal requirement I am aware of that I ever do. I'm just very disillusioned and I've often been one in the past to walk away from much - but not all - that is not working for me. Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

Via scan, is there any confirmation number?

If there is, then what you MAY be dealing with, is something I just had a discussion with a government employee about. Cause for termination, is and can be a long process in Government work. They have to let the person keep screwing up (while the supervisor tells the affected person how to cover themselves), until the termination process goes through. You might be one of the screw ups the supervisor needs.There is no confirmation number that I am aware of, no. Rob

[Alan]

All right, I have to admit something here. I know very little about the Koch brothers though I have heard the name before. I will do some googling and see what the deal is with them.....Rob
According to Open Secrets.org they're something like the 59th most prolific political contributors in the country, well behind various labor unions and billionaire democrats, although they're the current "worst people in the world" according to many. Well, many who listen to Harry Reid berate them every day from the Senate podium.

Every losing party needs a distraction from their incompetence. The Koch brothers are the distraction du jour.

[Spartana]

I suppose this is an option too - I could just lock up the card and wait a year and just go to Mexico for a year for health care. I think it's crazy though that the taxpayers are picking up the tab for a policy I am frightened to use - but you do raise a point I have to agree with. No one says I have to use it and there is no legal requirement I am aware of that I ever do. I'm just very disillusioned and I've often been one in the past to walk away from much - but not all - that is not working for me. Rob

You don't need to worry about any taxpayer costs if you're not actually using Medicaid but keep it for emergencies until you get things straightened out. Unlike taxpayer subsidies that are going to insurance companies to pay for monthly premiums whether those people use their health insurance or not, Medicaid has no premiums so tax payers won't be paying anything until you use it for care. So if you just hang on to Medicaid but don't use it until you feel secure that you are covered, then it won't matter. And since you probably ARE covered now despite the paperwork boondoggle, in the event of an emergency you will likely be covered too - or at least you can show that you have a card and get care asap. And if you're not covered, you'll be billed for emergency care anyways (doubtful you'd make it too Mexico if you are having a heart attack or a stroke or in a car accident - and then you'd also be charged there) so why not just hang on to it? No harm, no foul. I think in time you'll discover you are covered by Medicaid, and that the letters issued to you were issued BEFORE 2014 (I think you said some letters saying you were ineligible where from Dec 2013 prior to the ACA and expanded Medicaid) or as Sweet Anna said, just sent at different times. So do what we Californians are best at doing - chilling - and wait and see what happens. Send in whatever paperwork they requested and just....wait. Things will smooth themselves out eventually.

And out of curiousity I looked up immigration to Mexico and what kind of healthcare system they have. Basicly it is universal healthcare for their citizens (but different types for those who are working and those who aren't) but everyone else residing there who are not citizens (expats for instance) have to use the private healthcare system and pay those costs themselves. And while those costs may be cheap by US standards, they can still be very expensive if you have a major illness or injury. So what may cost $100K here might only cost $50K there - but it's still $50K out of your pocket instead of thru insurance. So unless you plan to become a Mexican citizen (a process that takes about 5 years of residing there under a special residence visa for those who are either working or have proof of an outside income source like a US retirement pension or soc. security) you would be ineligible for their universal healthcare.

[flowerseverywhere]

Just for the heck of it I called the Customer Service Number listed on the health.gov website, thinking nothing would come of it. I reached a representative who advised me to call the State Insurance Board locally here in Phoenix and it turns out that their office isn't even all that far away from me. The rep I spoke to advised filing a complaint which I find very bizarre as I am quite willing to walk away from the insurance and pay the fine, a fact I stressed more than once, and I was told that to process such an issue a complaint would have to be filed anyway. Fair enough. So I'll try calling them tomorrow, it can't hurt I guess. Rob

I could be wrong but from what I'm hearing so far, this insurance is not going to be easy to exit from.....ugggggh, I feel so stupid now that this was so important to me. Live and learn I guess. I have to say that I was a little peeved that when I said I'd donate plasma again if I had to when the fine bumps up past $600, the rep actually said Oh My God. I wonder how she'd feel in my situation. Maybe she might not be so quick to walk away from the insurance but I'd wager she'd be unhappy.

This whole situation is reinforcing something else I believe in - walk a mile in someone else's shoes, then judge. Rob


wow. Both the federal and state government were open on a Sunday?

[ApatheticNoMore]

You don't need to worry about any taxpayer costs if you're not actually using Medicaid but keep it for emergencies until you get things straightened out. Unlike taxpayer subsidies that are going to insurance companies to pay for monthly premiums whether those people use their health insurance or not, Medicaid has no premiums so tax payers won't be paying anything until you use it for care. So if you just hang on to Medicaid but don't use it until you feel secure that you are covered, then it won't matter.

Well in many states Medicaid has been turned over to the insurance companies, so government money IS being spent regardless of whether services are being used (just for premiums). But this is really the fault of states that made this choice for Medicaid (and the ACA allowed it). To take this on as being one's own responsibility that states were dumb enough to "privatize" Medicaid and so now premiums are paid whether or not services are used is a bit much (a bit obsessive on taking "personal responsibility" for decisions that are made mostly beyond your control. Was it your choice the state turned Medicaid over to the insurance companies?).

(I think some insurance company involvement in Medicaid exists in California given the ads I have heard but I don't think it's total (perhaps more like medicare advantage?). Not sure ...)

[Spartana]

So you are saying that the state (or feds) are paying a private insurance company a monthly premium for each Medicaid patient even if that patient never uses it? Didn't know that. Figured there would only be a cost to the taxpayer on an "as used" basis for actual care. I know here in OC Medicaid is handled by a company called CalOptima but they only appear to only handle Medicaid patients and don't have non-Medicaid insurance. But then I never really looked into it and thought it was just an arm of Calif's Medicaid system.

ETA: OK I just looked up CalOptima and it says it's a "Public Agency" run thru the county. But I did see that there were other counties that had places like Kaiser, etc... (private insurers) that ran those county Medicaid programs so I guess you're right. Learn something everyday!

[ApatheticNoMore]

I have read that some states were going to do this (Arkansas) so I kind of assumed that's what was going on in Arizona with the HMO card, but I really don't know. I don't know on what basis the program in Arizona (or even CA) is being paid for (only when services are used or for premiums?). I just know that not all states are running Medicaid strictly as it used to be run: as a government program that only pays out when services are used.

I think this stuff varies a great deal depending on the state (which again would make taking the entire responsibility for unnecessary premiums being paid rather odd as it's at least partly caused by state's decision to use that payment method).

[Teacher Terry]

If you have a heart attack or stroke Robb they aren't going to drive you to Mexico. So you would end up with a big bill that you probably could not pay. At least if you have the insurance you have a good chance of being able to use it & not being in debt. If your worst fears materialize and they bill you the outcome is the same.

[gimmethesimplelife]

wow. Both the federal and state government were open on a Sunday?A rep was available at the number for health.gov website on a Sunday, yes. I had to wait until today to call the insurance board in Phoenix, though, which was of course closed on Sunday. Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

You don't need to worry about any taxpayer costs if you're not actually using Medicaid but keep it for emergencies until you get things straightened out. Unlike taxpayer subsidies that are going to insurance companies to pay for monthly premiums whether those people use their health insurance or not, Medicaid has no premiums so tax payers won't be paying anything until you use it for care. So if you just hang on to Medicaid but don't use it until you feel secure that you are covered, then it won't matter. And since you probably ARE covered now despite the paperwork boondoggle, in the event of an emergency you will likely be covered too - or at least you can show that you have a card and get care asap. And if you're not covered, you'll be billed for emergency care anyways (doubtful you'd make it too Mexico if you are having a heart attack or a stroke or in a car accident - and then you'd also be charged there) so why not just hang on to it? No harm, no foul. I think in time you'll discover you are covered by Medicaid, and that the letters issued to you were issued BEFORE 2014 (I think you said some letters saying you were ineligible where from Dec 2013 prior to the ACA and expanded Medicaid) or as Sweet Anna said, just sent at different times. So do what we Californians are best at doing - chilling - and wait and see what happens. Send in whatever paperwork they requested and just....wait. Things will smooth themselves out eventually.

And out of curiousity I looked up immigration to Mexico and what kind of healthcare system they have. Basicly it is universal healthcare for their citizens (but different types for those who are working and those who aren't) but everyone else residing there who are not citizens (expats for instance) have to use the private healthcare system and pay those costs themselves. And while those costs may be cheap by US standards, they can still be very expensive if you have a major illness or injury. So what may cost $100K here might only cost $50K there - but it's still $50K out of your pocket instead of thru insurance. So unless you plan to become a Mexican citizen (a process that takes about 5 years of residing there under a special residence visa for those who are either working or have proof of an outside income source like a US retirement pension or soc. security) you would be ineligible for their universal healthcare.Honestly, Spartana, that 100K surgery here? More like 18K to 25K just by crossing a border. But yes the point remains I could not afford that. I was looking into gallbladder surgery there a few years ago - 4500 for everything, including transportation to the hospital from San Diego and a hotel room for a family member while the surgery was taking place. A nice room too at the Hotel Lucerna in Mexicali. Amazingly cheaper but yes I don't just have 4500 sitting around for this. And I think your advice here overall is very wise. As always. Rob

[flowerseverywhere]

A rep was available at the number for health.gov website on a Sunday, yes. I had to wait until today to call the insurance board in Phoenix, though, which was of course closed on Sunday. Rob

holy cow. Do you realize how lucky you are? With the insurance we pay 6,000 a year for (plus co pays etc.) we have to call between 8:31 am and 4 pm Monday through Friday and we can expect to be on hold for twenty minutes or so. And I feel lucky!

last year when DH had shoulder surgery they would only approve six therapy visits at a time before making the therapist prove it was medically necessary.

[iris lilies]

It was Medicaid (free coverage for us po' folks " :-)) and not medicare (for those 65 and over). Have to wait a decade or so for medicare (will it still be there then?). Basiclly I AM eligible for Medicaid - but only Medicaid not subsidies...
oh sorry, I really do know the difference, just had a lazy typing moment.

[gimmethesimplelife]

holy cow. Do you realize how lucky you are? With the insurance we pay 6,000 a year for (plus co pays etc.) we have to call between 8:31 am and 4 pm Monday through Friday and we can expect to be on hold for twenty minutes or so. And I feel lucky!

last year when DH had shoulder surgery they would only approve six therapy visits at a time before making the therapist prove it was medically necessary.Here's my chance to say Wow, Just Wow. And going to Mexico for health care, especially given that I don't live that far away, is such a radical notion when confronted with such costs and such limitations? I don't mean to pick on you here, and you get to believe as you wish - I'm just trying to make a point is all. Rob

[Yarrow]

If you have a heart attack or stroke Robb they aren't going to drive you to Mexico. So you would end up with a big bill that you probably could not pay. At least if you have the insurance you have a good chance of being able to use it & not being in debt. If your worst fears materialize and they bill you the outcome is the same.

This.

[peggy]

According to Open Secrets.org they're something like the 59th most prolific political contributors in the country, well behind various labor unions and billionaire democrats, although they're the current "worst people in the world" according to many. Well, many who listen to Harry Reid berate them every day from the Senate podium.

Every losing party needs a distraction from their incompetence. The Koch brothers are the distraction du jour.

Oh well, forgive me. I just assumed that someone as media savvy as you had certainly seen the same ads I have which are one ad after another trying to present people who have been 'harmed' by Obamacare. Each and every one has been proven to be ignorant pawns at best, and straight up liars at worst. Kind of reminds me of those late night commercials for knives where the poor lady 'simply can't cut a tomato to save her ever lovin life'...:laff:

The Koch brothers stock in trade is one lie after another. It's not how big the donation (although theirs is plenty big) it's how you use it!
The fact that it's republican politicians stuffing Koch money into their pockets to lie unashamedly says something about republican politicians. It also says a lot about the people who support them. I'm not talking about the people who believe the lies, they are just being duped. I'm talking about those who know they are lies, and just excuse it as part of the game...or end justifies the means. Whatever.:(
And just because you can steal or lie your way to votes doesn't actually make you a 'winning' party. Not really.

[gimmethesimplelife]

Oh well, forgive me. I just assumed that someone as media savvy as you had certainly seen the same ads I have which are one ad after another trying to present people who have been 'harmed' by Obamacare. Each and every one has been proven to be ignorant pawns at best, and straight up liars at worst. Kind of reminds me of those late night commercials for knives where the poor lady 'simply can't cut a tomato to save her ever lovin life'...:laff:

The Koch brothers stock in trade is one lie after another. It's not how big the donation (although theirs is plenty big) it's how you use it!
The fact that it's republican politicians stuffing Koch money into their pockets to lie unashamedly says something about republican politicians. It also says a lot about the people who support them. I'm not talking about the people who believe the lies, they are just being duped. I'm talking about those who know they are lies, and just excuse it as part of the game...or end justifies the means. Whatever.:(
And just because you can steal or lie your way to votes doesn't actually make you a 'winning' party. Not really.Peggy, I gotta say that I can't intelligently discuss the Koch Brothers or what they are about as I don't know enough about them for my opinion to be valid. So I'm going to skip them and just give you an update. Due to my problems with expanded Medicaid I gotta say at this point I am less than pleased with the Democratic party. Very much less than pleased. I'm not going to go radical and bat for the other team as it were so I'm just a lot less interested in Domestic Politics these days than I was just a few months ago. I guess complete and utter and total disillusionment will do that to you. I'm to the point now where if Hillary were to run in 2016, I'd love to see her run and win but I won't be actively supporting her or anyone else. Just too disillusioned at this point. Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

Ok folks, here is an update. I have decided to effect a compromise. I will from this point forward until further notice be going to Mexico for my health care, but I will keep the Medicaid card in my wallet in case of something like a heart attack or stroke or something like that where time is of the essence takes place. I'm hoping not to use the card anytime soon - the nicest way to put it is that it is too fear based for me now due to what I have experienced with DES.

I am so grateful to live close to the border - what would I do if I lived somewhere in the Midwest or Northeast or Northwest? At this point I can't see myself wanting to move any further away from the border - but I could see moving closer to it. This is a 180 from a lot of the rhetoric coming out of Arizona in regards to border/immigration issues, I realize this - but access to affordable health care can be found on the other side and this reality trumps all for me. I guess I can thank Arizona DES for proving my last statement to me. But I won't cancel the Medicaid either, though I can't see myself using it unless something critical should happen. Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

holy cow. Do you realize how lucky you are? With the insurance we pay 6,000 a year for (plus co pays etc.) we have to call between 8:31 am and 4 pm Monday through Friday and we can expect to be on hold for twenty minutes or so. And I feel lucky!

last year when DH had shoulder surgery they would only approve six therapy visits at a time before making the therapist prove it was medically necessary.I have slept on your post and thought about it a great deal. Honestly, and this is just me talking for me only, please let me stress this - under these conditions of cost and lack of access at this cost, I would leave America without thinking twice. To me this is too much of an affront to my personal dignity to face these costs and these conditions, whereas anywhere else in the world I wouldn't. I don't understand how people in this situation would not at least start comparison shopping other countries and what they have to offer. To me such is second nature much like breathing when and if confronted with such a scenario. But I also understand that I can only talk for me - this is how I would react and how I would perceive. YMMV. Rob

[flowerseverywhere]

Peggy, I'm glad you are back. Your perspective and Alan's are so interesting to me

rob, I wish you the best of luck. I think I see life here in the US so differently from you. Every day I am thankful. Every country in the world has faults, but there is no place I would rather be.

[gimmethesimplelife]

Peggy, I'm glad you are back. Your perspective and Alan's are so interesting to me

rob, I wish you the best of luck. I think I see life here in the US so differently from you. Every day I am thankful. Every country in the world has faults, but there is no place I would rather be.Thank you, Flowerseverywhere. (I've always liked your screen name BTW). Yes, you do see life here very differently that I do and that's OK in my book. I've posted once here that life has taught me that you can put ten different people in the same situation and get ten different takes on the situation - this is my take. You get to have yours. Rob

[iris lilies]

I have slept on your post and thought about it a great deal. Honestly, and this is just me talking for me only, please let me stress this - under these conditions of cost and lack of access at this cost, I would leave America without thinking twice. To me this is too much of an affront to my personal dignity to face these costs and these conditions, whereas anywhere else in the world I wouldn't. I don't understand how people in this situation would not at least start comparison shopping other countries and what they have to offer. To me such is second nature much like breathing when and if confronted with such a scenario. But I also understand that I can only talk for me - this is how I would react and how I would perceive. YMMV. Rob

If you are speaking of flowerseverywhere's DH's situation (it is hard to know what you mean by these "conditions of cost" and "lack of access") I can assure you that limits like this are common here under Medicaid and under public health treatment in other countries. Hell, they are common here with blue chip insurance policies. Limiting treatment is a norm regardless of where you live and what insurance or health treatment you have unless you are paying 100% of it out of pocket.

[gimmethesimplelife]

If you are spekaing of flowerseverywhere's DH situation (it is hard to know what you mean by these "conditions of cost" and "lack of access") I can assure you that limits like this are common here under Medicaid and under public health treatment in other countries. Hell, they are common here with blue chip insurance policies. Limiting treatment is a norm.

Sometimes it's difficult to know really what you are talking about.I can tell you that if paying by cash or credit care in Mexico you are not going to be limited in this way and as long as costs hold in Mexico and the dollar retains some value (both variables I realize I have no control over) - such will more than likely remain the same. I can tell you also - price out what various medical procedures cost in other countries vs. the US and remember that on July 4th or any other time you might feel patriotic. I stopped recognizing July 4th due to health care costs in the US - but I realize that not everyone is going to take it to that level, I get that. My point is that the costs differentials are huge and can not be denied - I have yet to EVER hear a rational explanation from anyone as to why this is acceptable and why I should accept it. Sorry, no can do. Rob

As to lack of access I was referring to the husband being vulnerable to less therapy visits through no fault of his own, and also to the fact that flowerseverywhere has to wait twenty minutes to speak to someone. And feels lucky for this! Sorry, no can do. This does not work for me. For other people, fine if they are willing to accept it. Fine. But not for me. I'm so glad I live so close to a border and am quite happy to work that to my advantage. And as to costs, having to pay 6000 US plus copays and feeling lucky for that? 6000K is enough to pay to have my gallbladder out in Mexico with four days in a private room and transportation to and from San Diego plus a four star hotel room for a relative to stay in. This includes ALL with no sneak bills afterwards, including the anesthesia and meals in the hospital and meds on the way out. This is what I mean by cost differentials. Price this out in the US and you'll see my point, perhaps. Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

Something else, too? These cost savings apply not just to humans but also to vet care. I found out that the Revolution flea med that costs $85 here in Phoenix - $20 at the vet office in Mexicali. Amazing, it really is. I'm going to be cost shopping even more on the other side of the border from this point forward. I'd love someone to explain away that price differential to me - could it even be done? Rob

[iris lilies]

I can tell you that if paying by cash or credit care in Mexico you are not going to be limited in this way ...
oh of course! pay out of your pocket and you can gets all kinds of treatment, even if you don't need it! haha.

[iris lilies]

Something else, too? These cost savings apply not just to humans but also to vet care. I found out that the Revolution flea med that costs $85 here in Phoenix - $20 at the vet office in Mexicali. Amazing, it really is. I'm going to be cost shopping even more on the other side of the border from this point forward. I'd love someone to explain away that price differential to me - could it even be done? Rob
$85 is the high end and likely from a vet. You can get it cheaper online, but I don't I just buy it at my vet's office. I don't mind if they make a few bucks on it.

[gimmethesimplelife]

oh of course! pay out of your pocket and you can gets all kinds of treatment, even if you don't need it! haha.I am not saying that this does not happen. I have not experienced this in Mexico, but then again I have always found recommendations of medical professionals to see from Mexicans themselves - one of the perks of living in a 85% Hispanic neighborhood and speaking Spanish to all the neighbors and endearing yourselves to them. I was one of the few Anglos who did not leave the area in the 90's as it became much more Hispanic, as I already knew of the border cost differentials for dental and I thought to myself that maybe these people could help me save more. Sure enough they have, and I have learned also to respect a different culture and have made some pretty interesting friendships that other Anglos who fled out to the burbs have denied themselves. How sad, but this was their choice. Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

$85 is the high end and likely from a vet. You can get it cheaper online, but I don't I just buy it at my vet's office. I don't mind if they make a few bucks on it.I will look into the price online. I'm doubting I can beat the Mexican price but I will give it a try. Rob

PS Came back to add that you don't see the irony here? This $20 price IS AT A VET'S OFFICE - Just in Mexico is all. Why the $65 differential in vet office pricing between the US and Mexico? Anyone? (but I will still price shop online here and check out online pricing).

[iris lilies]

I will look into the price online. I'm doubting I can beat the Mexican price but I will give it a try. Rob

Agreed, you aren't going to beat the Mexico price, most likely. Of course it costs something to travel to Mexico, for me, anyway. :)

[gimmethesimplelife]

Agreed, you aren't going to beat the Mexico price, most likely. Of course it costs something to travel to Mexico, for me, anyway. :)It does cost something to travel to Mexico - yes indeed, even for me. But get my teeth cleaned, buy several months of Revolution, get a dental guard and from the savings alone I've paid for my bus, food, and lodging and still come out ahead a few hundred dollars. A very sad commentary on America on multiple levels, though I doubt many will understand this.....Rob

PS I came back to add that is costs more for you to get to Mexico in terms of time and money than it does for me so I get that this playing field is not exactly level. I can offshore smaller things and still come out way ahead before you can due to your time and travel cost differentials.

[Teacher Terry]

Rob, the countries that give free health care have a lot higher taxes that make it difficult for people to get ahead. That is why so many immigrants are happy to be here. I think I have mentioned before that my DIL was a professional in Poland and works a crappy job here due to her degree not being recognized but she says overall she is much better off here.

[gimmethesimplelife]

Rob, the countries that give free health care have a lot higher taxes that make it difficult for people to get ahead. That is why so many immigrants are happy to be here. I think I have mentioned before that my DIL was a professional in Poland and works a crappy job here due to her degree not being recognized but she says overall she is much better off here.With all due respect I disagree to a point. I was in Austria in 1987 - admittedly, though, one of the wealthiest European countries, and I was blown out to sea by how much higher the standard of living was there vs. the US for everyday people. And this is before factoring in their generous social welfare and constitutionally required much longer vacation times. Their taxes are much higher than in the US, and so are the costs of everyday things - but their wages are also a good bit higher than ours, too. Now I do know that things have changed a bit there, and there have been some social welfare cuts, and who knows how much more may be cut? I sure don't know. But when I was there in 1987 - it was much much much better than the US - I can say this as I lived amongst family and ordinary people for three months so I had the chance to compare.

Poland, however, I can't speak for other than I have know a few Poles who have indeed told me they are better off here. Ironically, one of them I worked with as a server and he would tell everyone to go to Mexico for their health care and not to take the extremely expensive and very limited policy on offer at that restaurant at the time. Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

With all due respect I disagree to a point. I was in Austria in 1987 - admittedly, though, one of the wealthiest European countries, and I was blown out to sea by how much higher the standard of living was there vs. the US for everyday people. And this is before factoring in their generous social welfare and constitutionally required much longer vacation times. Their taxes are much higher than in the US, and so are the costs of everyday things - but their wages are also a good bit higher than ours, too. Now I do know that things have changed a bit there, and there have been some social welfare cuts, and who knows how much more may be cut? I sure don't know. But when I was there in 1987 - it was much much much better than the US - I can say this as I lived amongst family and ordinary people for three months so I had the chance to compare.

Poland, however, I can't speak for other than I have know a few Poles who have indeed told me they are better off here. Ironically, one of them I worked with as a server and he would tell everyone to go to Mexico for their health care and not to take the extremely expensive and very limited policy on offer at that restaurant at the time. Rob

PS I came back to add that I'd be happy to pay higher taxes to be more insulated and protected from capitalism and what it has become. This is not the capitalism I remember from the 70's and early 80's but a much fiercer, much more turbo-charged type. I'd be very happy actually if higher taxes bought me some social welfare to protect me from it.

[sweetana3]

Taxes + social welfare additions = more government = more admin issues and problems. Remember I have worked in government for 31 years in a problem solving capacity and know just how bad it can get. Isnt this exactly what you are complaining about? You say you want to be insulated and protected from government (in this case State of Arizona) and want out of the whole deal.

[gimmethesimplelife]

Taxes + social welfare additions = more government = more admin issues and problems. Remember I have worked in government for 31 years in a problem solving capacity and know just how bad it can get. Isnt this exactly what you are complaining about? You say you want to be insulated and protected from government (in this case State of Arizona) and want out of the whole deal.You raise a very good point. I guess to be honest Americans are not capable of implementing such programs without potential nightmares - even I who was so pro-ObamaCare am now afraid to use it, even if it is free. I guess I'd have to leave the States to get this kind of life I refer to. Somehow, other countries are able to implement such programs without all this nightmare attached to it. So I guess I need to update my last post to being willing to pay higher taxes elsewhere for protection against capitalism. Rob

[bae]

I guess I'd have to leave the States to get this kind of life I refer to.

http://arstechnica.com/civis/download/file.php?mode=view&id=28921&sid=0a07f0c21ea1d9131219f1a8bea65124

[rodeosweetheart]

I vote you stay, outsource your medical when you can, keep the card for emergencies, and advocate for change here in America! I think we need more Americans willing to speak up for the citizenry, for universal health care, and for quality of life in our beloved nation.

[gimmethesimplelife]

I vote you stay, outsource your medical when you can, keep the card for emergencies, and advocate for change here in America! I think we need more Americans willing to speak up for the citizenry, for universal health care, and for quality of life in our beloved nation.This. This here seems like the sanest way to go overall truth be told. One thing I am learning as I get older is that I have the cajones to go where a lot of people won't - and I also quite frankly couldn't care less what most people think of me (though there are a few exceptions to this). Both are good things to have to advocate for others and to advocate for change, no? So I can see a great deal of logic and sense in your post, rodeosweetheart. Thanks! Rob

[Alan]

Oh well, forgive me. I just assumed that someone as media savvy as you had certainly seen the same ads I have which are one ad after another trying to present people who have been 'harmed' by Obamacare. Each and every one has been proven to be ignorant pawns at best, and straight up liars at worst. Kind of reminds me of those late night commercials for knives where the poor lady 'simply can't cut a tomato to save her ever lovin life'...:laff:

The Koch brothers stock in trade is one lie after another. It's not how big the donation (although theirs is plenty big) it's how you use it!
The fact that it's republican politicians stuffing Koch money into their pockets to lie unashamedly says something about republican politicians. It also says a lot about the people who support them. I'm not talking about the people who believe the lies, they are just being duped. I'm talking about those who know they are lies, and just excuse it as part of the game...or end justifies the means. Whatever.:(
And just because you can steal or lie your way to votes doesn't actually make you a 'winning' party. Not really.
I forgive you Peggy. When lies become politicians stock in trade, many people fall for it. But never fear, someone will always come along and point out a different perspective for anyone open to it. I would suggest that from now on, when Harry Reid stands before the Senate podium and tells you that "anyone, yes anyone who tells you they've been harmed by Obamacare, that their premiums have doubled or tripled, that they can no longer afford the care they once had, are liars", (or words to that effect, I am of course paraphrasing) think about Spartana's post regarding the loss of her previous policy and the expense of a replacement. Ask yourself why would he say such a thing and expect me to believe it when I know someone it has happened to.

I don't think its the Koch brothers you should be concerned with. If I were you, I'd reserve my concern for the politician feeding you that line of BS. But maybe that's just me.

[CeciliaW]

I guess I'd have to leave the States to get this kind of life I refer to. Somehow, other countries are able to implement such programs without all this nightmare attached to it. Rob

Ok, after months, literally months of listening to you say this on so many topics, Go already. Write us when you get settled and give us a view from the other side.

[sweetana3]

Anyone who says that other countries have perfect wonderful health care systems for everyone, has not lived in that country. The UK, Japan, or any other country with nationalized health care have their own issues. It just depends on what issues you are willing to live withand whether you have the money to pay for them.

It was interesting reading about hospitals in England closing because they ran out of NHS money and had to figure out where to send patients or other crazy issues. I still believe in a single payer system because I believe that all should get a basic level of good care. I believe that we spend way too much on experimentation and end of life care that benefits few because for some reason we fear death and it will happen to each of us. We want a perfect system and it gets in the way of a good system.

However, that is not what we are working with right now.

[peggy]

I forgive you Peggy. When lies become politicians stock in trade, many people fall for it. But never fear, someone will always come along and point out a different perspective for anyone open to it. I would suggest that from now on, when Harry Reid stands before the Senate podium and tells you that "anyone, yes anyone who tells you they've been harmed by Obamacare, that their premiums have doubled or tripled, that they can no longer afford the care they once had, are liars", (or words to that effect, I am of course paraphrasing) think about Spartana's post regarding the loss of her previous policy and the expense of a replacement. Ask yourself why would he say such a thing and expect me to believe it when I know someone it has happened to.

I don't think its the Koch brothers you should be concerned with. If I were you, I'd reserve my concern for the politician feeding you that line of BS. But maybe that's just me.

Humm...interesting you would bring up spartana. Now here is a case that on the surface seems like she is harmed. However, even spartana admits her 'harm' is self inflicted. She has TWO(count them..two) options that won't cost her ANYTHING, or at the most, very little. She chose to go with the most expensive option.

[Alan]

Humm...interesting you would bring up spartana. Now here is a case that on the surface seems like she is harmed. However, even spartana admits her 'harm' is self inflicted. She has TWO(count them..two) options that won't cost her ANYTHING, or at the most, very little. She chose to go with the most expensive option.Yes she did go with the most expensive option, and I admire her for choosing independence over subservience. But the point is, her much more expensive option, according to the Senate Majority Leader, is a lie and by telling us about it she's a liar. But most importantly, the commercial funded by the Koch brothers which highlighted the same thing, makes them liars too. And un-American to boot.

When you hear stuff like that, doesn't it make you wonder about the quality of our highest officials? I know it's important for them to rile up their base and scare potential donors into contributing more and more, but do they have to insult us, as well as our intelligence, in the process?

[flowerseverywhere]

PS I came back to add that I'd be happy to pay higher taxes to be more insulated and protected from capitalism and what it has become. This is not the capitalism I remember from the 70's and early 80's but a much fiercer, much more turbo-charged type. I'd be very happy actually if higher taxes bought me some social welfare to protect me from it.

if you qualify for Medicaid you would not pay higher taxes. I would, as well as most people who post here. So obviously you would be happy if taxes were raised.

not trying to be snarky, just honest.

[flowerseverywhere]

If you are speaking of flowerseverywhere's DH's situation (it is hard to know what you mean by these "conditions of cost" and "lack of access") I can assure you that limits like this are common here under Medicaid and under public health treatment in other countries. Hell, they are common here with blue chip insurance policies. Limiting treatment is a norm regardless of where you live and what insurance or health treatment you have unless you are paying 100% of it out of pocket.
Actually, I don't mind the hassle my insurance company puts us through. it protects us from people who would overuse services and raise my premiums. Like a $150 ER copayment, unless you are admitted or meet certain conditions. Certainly discourages people from using an ER as a MD office. And a tiered pharmacy system. Try a generic cheap tried and true med for something like high BP before some newfangled highly advertised one. Limits can protect you.

[iris lilies]

.... But I won't cancel the Medicaid either, though I can't see myself using it unless something critical should happen. Rob

So is this the latest update: no cancellation? This is as of 4/8/2014 today. It's hard for me to keep up.

[iris lilies]

if you qualify for Medicaid you would not pay higher taxes. I would, as well as most people who post here. So obviously you would be happy if taxes were raised.

not trying to be snarky, just honest.

Thank you for saying this, I just think that these boards are no longer a place to be honest. Too bad really. It's gone on for 15 pages.

15. Pages. Oy vey.

[Spartana]

Humm...interesting you would bring up spartana. Now here is a case that on the surface seems like she is harmed. However, even spartana admits her 'harm' is self inflicted. She has TWO(count them..two) options that won't cost her ANYTHING, or at the most, very little. She chose to go with the most expensive option.

But I am in an unusual situation - having both access to the VA as well as in a state that has expanded Medicaid without requiring asset/means testing. Most people don't have those things. So if you remove those 2 things from my life - then yes, I'd be a Obamacare loser big time. I would have had my low cost policy cancelled as I did but, being too low income, I would not be able to qualify for subsidies and, if I were not in one of the states with expanded Medicaid (and less than half of the states have that), then I would not qualify for that. So my only choice (and the choice of many other's in the nation) would be to pay the greatly increased premiums and deductibles that were created by Obamacare, and not be entitled to any subsidies even if their incomes are very low. Or go without. Or go to Mexico :-)! That is the reality for many people under Obamacare sadly. However, I (and Rob and anyone else who is still young, hale and hearty) can work to earn an income that would allow us to qualify for subsidies and have lower cost health insurance. Well, I'd have to drop the VA but, if I were like most people and didn't have that, I would go back to work. I personally don't understand why Rob doesn't do this himself. As I said before, even a FT minimum wage job (or even a seasonal job with lots of OT) will net him the required income level of approx. $16K/year to get fully subsidized health insurance without having to go on Medicaid and all it's issues.

As for me being harmed - well it depends on how you look at it. My premiums and deductibles tripled when the ACA can into affect, as they did for millions of others who could not qualify for subsidies (both higher income as well as lower income earners) but I am fortunate to be both a disabled Vet as well as a cheapskate simpler liver so have many options. Most people who find themselves in my shoes healthcare-wise don't have those same options. And I would prefer to have (and pay for) my own private policy rather than rely on either the VA ("No, it's the OTHER leg you're suppose to amputate!") or Medicaid.

[Spartana]

if you qualify for Medicaid you would not pay higher taxes. I would, as well as most people who post here. So obviously you would be happy if taxes were raised.

not trying to be snarky, just honest.In Rob's defense, he has said many times that he would happily part with up to 50% of his income (at whatever level it was) to ensure that we had universal healthcare for all. But yes, as it is currently, the lower income people (like me) don't pay much in taxes and the burden falls on the higher income earner (Alan!). Yet they can not take advantage of the subsidied health insurance themselves and have also seen their own self-funded policy's increase in cost dramatically. Add to that the potential reduced hours (and even job loses) once the employer mandate comes into effect. Heck we'll all be on Medicaid then :-)!

[Alan]

In Rob's defense, he has said many times that he would happily part with up to 50% of his income (at whatever level it was) to ensure that we had universal healthcare for all. Really? I recall several offers to pay 50% higher taxes, which could equal hundreds of dollars per year, or volunteer several hours of work at a community garden in order to have universal healthcare for all. Although there's been so many posts on this subject over the years, I may have missed a much more generous one.

Regardless, if a person would rather leave the country than clear up a misunderstanding to ensure free healthcare, I'd question any previous claims.

[gimmethesimplelife]

So is this the latest update: no cancellation? This is as of 4/8/2014 today. It's hard for me to keep up.LOL I can't say you don't have a point there IL. I'll give you that. At this moment in time, no cancellation but no use unless something time critical takes place. Friday morning I have yet another appointment with the navigation folks to scan documents that DES wants on over to them. We'll see how soon I get another letter if any. Gotta say getting so many letters so quickly back to back like that really causes me cause for concern.....Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

Really? I recall several offers to pay 50% higher taxes, which could equal hundreds of dollars per year, or volunteer several hours of work at a community garden in order to have universal healthcare for all. Although there's been so many posts on this subject over the years, I may have missed a much more generous one.

Regardless, if a person would rather leave the country than clear up a misunderstanding to ensure free healthcare, I'd question any previous claims.It's not that I'm unwilling to clear up a misunderstanding Alan - it's FOUR letters for income verification - documents they request scanned three times already - is it to much to ask for them to get it right the third time? I would wager if you were in my shoes you might just see this differently? Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

In Rob's defense, he has said many times that he would happily part with up to 50% of his income (at whatever level it was) to ensure that we had universal healthcare for all. But yes, as it is currently, the lower income people (like me) don't pay much in taxes and the burden falls on the higher income earner (Alan!). Yet they can not take advantage of the subsidied health insurance themselves and have also seen their own self-funded policy's increase in cost dramatically. Add to that the potential reduced hours (and even job loses) once the employer mandate comes into effect. Heck we'll all be on Medicaid then :-)!Spartana, yes indeed I would be willing to pay 50% more in taxes but the caveat here is that my taxes are quite low. I don't see ObamaCare ending well for another reason that actually has nothing to do with me believe it or not. All these people put in plans with up to 6K a year in cost vulnerability? How sustainable is that? I can see where there would be some resentment about what could be perceived as a flippant attitude towards free health care - how is what is left of the middle class supposed to afford healthcare under these conditions? I am capable of looking beyond social class. At least once in a while lol. And I don't like what I see when I do on this one. Methinks the border doctors I speak so highly of? They are probably smiling like you wouldn't believe over ObamaCare due to these reasons as their services will become a hot commodity in the future.....the math simply makes the case for it, as much as some people don't like this. Rob

Also, came back to add - 50% of my income - can't afford at the moment but 25 to 30 and cutting out all spending on quality of life I would be willing to do, as I do see this as beyond being a huge crisis.

[gimmethesimplelife]

Thank you for saying this, I just think that these boards are no longer a place to be honest. Too bad really. It's gone on for 15 pages.

15. Pages. Oy vey.This has gone on a long time IL, I'll give you that. May I pose a question, though? Were you in my shoes and you had received four letters for income verification and two letters telling you you had been denied for Expanded Medicaid within a 2.5 month period, how would you perceive these issues? I'm guessing you might not be pleased overall? And of course you remember how I was so for ObamaCare - is it not understandable that there would be disillusionment there? Even for those who don't go into it with my essential distrust of the system to begin with? My point is that buried in here are some valid issues, at least in my world. YMMV. But yeah, 15 pages is a lot. Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

if you qualify for Medicaid you would not pay higher taxes. I would, as well as most people who post here. So obviously you would be happy if taxes were raised.

not trying to be snarky, just honest.I appreciate your honesty and your comment here. I did not see it as snarkiness at all. May I raise you a comment though? If wages overall were raised just a tad, and so many jobs that were once FT were not now PT, there might not be a need to raise taxes for this as there would not be as many on Medicaid. Just a thought. I sure can't seem to find FT work, and in my circle I only know two people who have since 2009, unless it was temporary FT work such as at a national park.....Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

In Rob's defense, he has said many times that he would happily part with up to 50% of his income (at whatever level it was) to ensure that we had universal healthcare for all. But yes, as it is currently, the lower income people (like me) don't pay much in taxes and the burden falls on the higher income earner (Alan!). Yet they can not take advantage of the subsidied health insurance themselves and have also seen their own self-funded policy's increase in cost dramatically. Add to that the potential reduced hours (and even job loses) once the employer mandate comes into effect. Heck we'll all be on Medicaid then :-)!I'm really worried about the employer mandate and the effect it may have on jobs in the future.....ObamaCare IMHO is having an effect on jobs already but I fear this is just the start of something bigger, though OTOH I do appreciate the disconnect between healthcare and employment. I just wish the disconnect came at a lower cost overall. Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

But I am in an unusual situation - having both access to the VA as well as in a state that has expanded Medicaid without requiring asset/means testing. Most people don't have those things. So if you remove those 2 things from my life - then yes, I'd be a Obamacare loser big time. I would have had my low cost policy cancelled as I did but, being too low income, I would not be able to qualify for subsidies and, if I were not in one of the states with expanded Medicaid (and less than half of the states have that), then I would not qualify for that. So my only choice (and the choice of many other's in the nation) would be to pay the greatly increased premiums and deductibles that were created by Obamacare, and not be entitled to any subsidies even if their incomes are very low. Or go without. Or go to Mexico :-)! That is the reality for many people under Obamacare sadly. However, I (and Rob and anyone else who is still young, hale and hearty) can work to earn an income that would allow us to qualify for subsidies and have lower cost health insurance. Well, I'd have to drop the VA but, if I were like most people and didn't have that, I would go back to work. I personally don't understand why Rob doesn't do this himself. As I said before, even a FT minimum wage job (or even a seasonal job with lots of OT) will net him the required income level of approx. $16K/year to get fully subsidized health insurance without having to go on Medicaid and all it's issues.

As for me being harmed - well it depends on how you look at it. My premiums and deductibles tripled when the ACA can into affect, as they did for millions of others who could not qualify for subsidies (both higher income as well as lower income earners) but I am fortunate to be both a disabled Vet as well as a cheapskate simpler liver so have many options. Most people who find themselves in my shoes healthcare-wise don't have those same options. And I would prefer to have (and pay for) my own private policy rather than rely on either the VA ("No, it's the OTHER leg you're suppose to amputate!") or Medicaid.I've been going over my records, and my best season since the financial meltdown? $11K. What makes things hard is finding that extra 5K in income to reach 16K and do as you suggest and avoid all the issues. I can make a lot of money over the holidays picking up banquets but that is not going to translate to 5K.....secret shopping is a nice source of income but it is not going to translate to 5K either added on. I'd love to be in the over 16K situation though and be free to some degree of government letters.....though I'm guessing there could be government mistakes here, too? Rob

[iris lilies]

... What makes things hard is finding that extra 5K in income to reach 16K and do as you suggest and avoid all the issues.

Emphasis mine.

You mean by "avoiding all of the issues" like, ummh, working? You mean all of the bs that comes with that thingy, you know, what's it called--a job?

As far as how *I * would react to your situation: Rob please come and sit by me and we will swap stories of fear 'n loathing of the gmbnt being involved in our chit. You have come full circle, and welcome my friend.

[gimmethesimplelife]

Emphasis mine.

You mean by "avoiding all of the issues" like, ummh, working? You mean all of the bs that comes with that thingy, you know, what's it called--a job?

As far as how *I * would react to your situation: Rob please come and sit by me and we will swap stories of fear 'n loathing of the gmbnt being involved in our chit. You have come full circle, and welcome my friend.Surprise! I bet I'm going to surprise you here, I just bet.....you are right. On this one issue I have come full circle. That being said, what I meant by avoiding all the issues was avoiding DES incompetence like I have been experiencing - but I am starting to think that expanding a social program - it seems like when this is done there are always stories of incompetence that spring forth from it. I'd just as soon not be hassling with DES and make the 16K like Spartana suggests. And avoid some of the government largesse. So - yeah - I have come full circle in a way. (just like that bumper sticker says - join me on the Dark Side. We have cookies). This was a feeble attempt at humour there. Rob

And here's a further shocker - I'd like to make even more than 16K as with my simple living skills and experience living cheaply, I could really build savings ON MY OWN and not depend on government so much. I'd really rather live that way......and always have wanted to live this way. Problem? Doesn't seem like the path to that life exists for many of us these days. A few here and there will find it and more power to them - I don't resent the resourceful who can make things work - but not all are going to find that lucky niche.

Also - I'd love to talk to you over coffee sometime - I bet it would be interesting for both of us. Rob

[Yarrow]

I sure can't seem to find FT work, and in my circle I only know two people who have since 2009, unless it was temporary FT work such as at a national park.....Rob

Rob, I know many people that can't find a FT job these days, so they work two PT jobs. It's pretty common. Most of my neighbors are doing this.... You could do that too. There's so many different things that you could do to up your income if you really wanted to. I know cause I've done it myself in the past, before MS put me in a wheelchair fulltime. Janitorial work and pet sitting helped me supplement my income back in the day. I used to clean a Sears store every morning for 3 hours before it opened for the day. Those kind of jobs are still widely available... I did my musician/band gig in the evenings and on weekends. And raised 3 kids by myself.

I think you could up your income a lot if you really wanted to.... Just being honest here.

[gimmethesimplelife]

Rob, I know many people that can't find a FT job these days, so they work two PT jobs. It's pretty common. Most of my neighbors are doing this.... You could do that too. There's so many different things that you could do to up your income if you really wanted to. I know cause I've done it myself in the past, before MS put me in a wheelchair fulltime. Janitorial work and pet sitting helped me supplement my income back in the day. I used to clean a Sears store every morning for 3 hours before it opened for the day. Those kind of jobs are still widely available... I did my musician/band gig in the evenings and on weekends. And raised 3 kids by myself.

I think you could up your income a lot if you really wanted to.... Just being honest here.I'm not saying you are totally off base here Yarrow. One issue I have not brought up is that I am in school FT learning a skill so that I can hopefully be self employed at better earnings and this is my first priority right now. I am selling off things on ebay, picking up banquet shifts when I can, doing focus groups and marketing research/surveys and am even thinking of donating plasma again - I don't like doing it but it's a paid chance to read textbooks and I'll just deal. It's not like I'm too good too in any way.

I know there are people in school FT who work FT - shoot, I've done it before - but what I am studying right now is very hard for me to pick up and I want to learn it and hopefully break free from some degree from the cycle I am in. I'm trying anyway. And I should have made the school clear earlier, my bad on that one. Rob

[bae]

Rob could make $30k/year by simply moving to Seattle/Tacoma and flipping burgers.

He could make $40-$45k/year if he moved a bit further north to where I live, and took up gardening or house cleaning or construction labor, and wanted to work full time. Most of the people here I know who do this work about half time, and pull in $25-$30k/year.

You could make more than $11k/year running a lemonade stand at the end of my street.

[flowerseverywhere]

It's not that I'm unwilling to clear up a misunderstanding Alan - it's FOUR letters for income verification - documents they request scanned three times already - is it to much to ask for them to get it right the third time? I would wager if you were in my shoes you might just see this differently? Rob

for just one minute put yourselves in their shoes. Since this whole ACA started there have been deadlines changed, and many people charged with administering the law did not know until the last minute what was even in it. Computer systems did not work correctly, people calling and asking questions they did not know the answer to. Are they incompetent as you seem to think or hard working people who were not given the tools to do the job correctly. I am guessing they have been totally overwhelmed with this whole thing. One of my sibs is a welfare benefit worker in a non expanded medicaid state and dealing with all the clients is a monumental task. Add to that how many times she is yelled at in a day for things totally out of her control, laws that at time seem illogical and a high turnover and her job is many days overwhelming. Maybe you should have some compassion for them instead of criticizing them, as you want people to have compassion for you.

Public workers who are in charge of benefits have an obligation to be good stewards of taxpayer money. They are supposed to check to be sure the people who get benefits meet the guidelines. It is their job.

Just a a thought, when you sell things on eBay for profit do you report that income? Do you keep careful track of your tips and report them in accordance with the tax guidelines?

[gimmethesimplelife]

for just one minute put yourselves in their shoes. Since this whole ACA started there have been deadlines changed, and many people charged with administering the law did not know until the last minute what was even in it. Computer systems did not work correctly, people calling and asking questions they did not know the answer to. Are they incompetent as you seem to think or hard working people who were not given the tools to do the job correctly. I am guessing they have been totally overwhelmed with this whole thing. One of my sibs is a welfare benefit worker in a non expanded medicaid state and dealing with all the clients is a monumental task. Add to that how many times she is yelled at in a day for things totally out of her control, laws that at time seem illogical and a high turnover and her job is many days overwhelming. Maybe you should have some compassion for them instead of criticizing them, as you want people to have compassion for you.

Public workers who are in charge of benefits have an obligation to be good stewards of taxpayer money. They are supposed to check to be sure the people who get benefits meet the guidelines. It is their job.

Just a a thought, when you sell things on eBay for profit do you report that income? Do you keep careful track of your tips and report them in accordance with the tax guidelines?A few things. I do report income made from Ebay when I make a profit. Right now I've been selling mostly my clutter and clothes remaining from my high spending days during the boom when I was waiting tables, and usually these sell at a loss and I'm just glad to get rid of these things and make what few dollars I can. I have also been scouting thrift shops for items to sell at a profit but the thing is here that it's very competitive now and I'm far from the only one doing this. Deal is though if I make a profit I declare it as I'm also afraid of the IRS - though to be honest (knock on wood) I've never had any problems with them. Right now when I pick up banquets I'm not getting tipped - it's flat hourly. But when I waited tables you better believe I kept track of what I was making and claimed it. No one else around me was doing that and to this day there is a lot of money that doesn't get taxed in F and B. I did it because I'm afraid of the IRS. I don't have a problem with taxes - as I've said before I believe they are the price tag for living in a civilized society. But I also believe the IRS has far too much power and abuse of this power runs rampant. They are a very scary organization to run afoul of - and I think it's far far far too easy to run afoul of them as the tax code is nightmarishly complex.

You bring up what I believe are valid points as to the nightmare this must be for the people who are sending me the letters. Honestly, I have to admit I have not thought about this more than once or twice - I posted some time ago what a nightmare this must be for them on a much older thread. I think you are right, too. So how does this get fixed then? It's a nightmare for me, and I've lost all trust in the system, it's a nightmare for them and they're probably just holding on hoping for a pension payday - and the people much higher are immune from any consequences. How does this get fixed? I'm stumped on this one.

I'm guessing that bringing in this human rights angle as far as to what these lower level government employees must be experiencing, that what I'm about to say was not your intent - now that I think of it, though, and how horrible it must be for them, I feel even more duty bound to offshore what I can to Mexico. This situation is so insane at this point it is as if I am protecting myself from potential clerical errors that could end up being an absolute nightmare to fix, and I am also protecting these government employees (though to a much lesser degree, I'll give you that) who were not given the tools to do their job - not giving them the chance to make errors in the first place.

Truly, health care has become a nightmarish joke for far too many in this country. Rob

[CeciliaW]

Dude,

Fish or cut bait.

Move or shut up about it.

Seriously.

[gimmethesimplelife]

Rob could make $30k/year by simply moving to Seattle/Tacoma and flipping burgers.

He could make $40-$45k/year if he moved a bit further north to where I live, and took up gardening or house cleaning or construction labor, and wanted to work full time. Most of the people here I know who do this work about half time, and pull in $25-$30k/year.

You could make more than $11k/year running a lemonade stand at the end of my street.I'm not saying that this is bad advice on the surface, Bae, ok? Right now there is no way, after what I have experienced with DES, that I am moving further away from the border. I might entertain the thought of moving close to it, but not further away. I'm also aware that the cost of living is higher in the NW (but there are perks like the scenery and the climate and the overall mentality of the people in general) and I worry that over time I wouldn't be able to afford healthcare period with the premium increases that are said to be slated to start this coming fall due to the ACA. I also like how I've managed to have a life in a very auto dependent city while living without a car, and how I have my own bedroom and bath and yard with fruit trees. It's a lot to give up, especially fairly quick access to Mexico. I just don't think I could do it knowing what I know and having experienced what I have experienced. To move further away would be potentially disempowering for me - I'd rather not deal with that. Rob

[bae]

I'm guessing that bringing in this human rights angle as far as to what these lower level government employees must be experiencing, ... I feel even more duty bound to offshore what I can to Mexico. ... I am also protecting these government employees ....


Those poor poor government employees, slaving away 9-5 in air-conditioned offices, with only the thought of their glittering federal benefits packages to sustain them until the next holiday or vacation, while being paid out of Alan's pocket...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEkWH8DB7b0

[bae]

I'm not saying that this is bad advice on the surface, Bae, ok? Right now there is no way, after what I have experienced with DES, that I am moving further away from the border.


I live about 2 miles from the border here. It takes me a very short while to row a boat to Canada... They have great health care there.

[gimmethesimplelife]

I live about 2 miles from the border here. It takes me a very short while to row a boat to Canada... They have great health care there.I don't disagree, Bae. Canada does have great health care. No argument there. The only problem is that said health care in Canada is much more expensive out of the pocket than it would be me in Mexico. I have to factor this in and unfortunately, it's a no-go.

And about my last post above, another reason I'm staying put here is that I am committed to finishing up my studies at community college. I've made a commitment to do something to make myself more marketable and I'm sticking to it. Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

Those poor poor government employees, slaving away 9-5 in air-conditioned offices, with only the thought of their glittering federal benefits packages to sustain them until the next holiday or vacation, while being paid out of Alan's pocket...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEkWH8DB7b0I agree with flowerseverywhere on this one, Bae. It does not seem that lower level government workers were given the tools to handle the implementation of ObamaCare and it is easy for me to understand that their work lives must be a nightmare now. Perhaps with time things will be ironed out, I don't know. Right now though it's as if I feel using the insurance for anything that is not time critical is hypocritical on my part, given what a big deal I make of human rights in general. Better to just cross the border, pay, get whatever health care is in question, and be done with it with no issues to follow me at a later date. No DES letters, no feeling guilty for lower level (and in Arizona quite low paid) government workers, no worries about checking my mail, just so much I can avoid by crossing the border. Rob

[CeciliaW]

Ok, well past the Three Yah Butts rule.

I should have noticed much earlier.

[flowerseverywhere]

Those poor poor government employees, slaving away 9-5 in air-conditioned offices, with only the thought of their glittering federal benefits packages to sustain them until the next holiday or vacation, while being paid out of Alan's pocket...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEkWH8DB7b0

Medicaid and other welfare benefits vary from state to state and are not administered by federal employees, but county employees. Many are in old sections of downtowns to be near the clients. Many counties have whittled away at benefits and pay, but if you need a job I say it is better to have a crappy one where people are mad at you for following rules someone else higher up sitting in an office made, instead of trying to collect benefits yourself.

[ToomuchStuff]

At this point, ASK ABOUT A SCAN VERIFICATION CODE.............................
If they can provide NO DOCUMENTATION, that they have SUCESSFULLY transmitted the information, FAX IT, FAX IT, FAX IT!!!!!!!!!!

Faxes, do provide a verification number, that I would then mail a copy of that number.
CYA, when dealing with a bureaucracy.

[ApatheticNoMore]

CYA, when dealing with a bureaucracy.

oh yea I started paying the DMV by credit card so there was a record (plus some chargeback ability) because I don't trust them anymore after they kept losing payments (even though that was on an old car so probably wont' happen again), and now the CA DMV is worried the credit cards may have been hacked. Sigh >8) Can't win ...