View Full Version : Old-school/modern child-reading thoughts Re: motherhood/fatherhood.
When it comes to who should stay-at-home to raise the children and who should work and support the family, where do your thoughts and beliefs lie? Are you old-fashioned and traditional like me and still believe that "home" is where the woman/mother should be? Are you from a time/era when child-rearing was women's work and bringing home the bacon was for the men?
How about change as we see it today where fathers are taking on a more active roles in helping with children. Is it fair to expect a man to have to divide his time (equally) outside the home to earn a living on top of sharing child-rearing responsibilities once home?
I didn't start this thread topic as a stance for argument, but rather as fun and informative way of gaining a little insight as to how people feel (for the most part nowadays) over who should do what in homes with children.
I think that it very much depends on individual family circumstances, personalities, financial considerations. Such as: who can earn enough to support the family? who has the temperament to be home with young children all day? who is better at multitasking?
In our house, although I was earning more when DD was born, DH was in a PhD program and we knew his career would be stable. I quit my very high-stress job and was very happy and relieved to do so, even though it meant we had no space in our budget for anything other than necessities for about 3 years (and even now, our combined income is still less than it was when I was working). It has been the right move for our family.
I view the household activities as my job, and I absolutely do not expect equal division of labor. It's my job, so I should do most of it - I shouldn't expect him to do housework after he's already worked a 12-hour day. I take care of DD's activities, homework, all food procurement and prep, paying the bills, doing taxes, cleaning, laundry, car servicing, the garden, errands. DH handles snow removal and the lawn, and random other activities that I can't do myself (e.g. replacing the garage door opener when it failed, fixing various things, plumbing, etc).
Bastelmutti
3-15-11, 11:58am
YMMV, of course - as Rosemary says, it's a very personal decision. However, taking an honest look at the people I know, I don't really know many ecstatically happy 100% stay-at-home parents (I know there are here, I just don't know many IRL) or many ecstatically happy 100% breadwinners. I know when we were in that situation, we had issues to work through with housework and childcare. If only jobs and logistics were such that people could share more equally - say work part-time or a little less than full-time each and share in child-rearing and household stuff. At this point in our lives, DH and I both work and the kids are in school, but I'm at home, so we don't use outside childcare except with friends. I do the bills, grocery shopping and cooking, daily child ferrying. He does outdoor and car stuff (usually) and some cooking. The whole family cleans and does laundry duty. Of course, it makes a difference how old your kids are, too. I think this works better for us, although we do appreciate the fact that he was able to stay at home while the kids were young.
PS We started out talking here about heterosexual relationships, but I know same-sex couples with kids have these same discussions.
I think it depends on the family too. My childhood best friend is a stay-at-home Dad. It totally works for his family. His wife has a good job that she absolutely loves and he has such a creative, kind, patient spirit. Perfect for staying home with kids. He's a graphic designer and does a little contract work on the side, but he considers his kids his primary job. I don't know how they work out housework.
I love being a SAHM. Again, I have a personality that is well suited for it and Zach is absolutely passionate about what he does. I wasn't working a full-time job when I met Zach and informed him upfront that outside of necessity, I didn't plan to change that. He wasn't bothered by that at all.
I absolutely think it's fair that Zach pitch in on housework. Taking care of a bunch of little kids, doing housework, planning and cooking meals, homeschooling my kids, running errands, scheduling doctor's appointments and such is much, much more than 40 hours a week. If the kids were older and/or in school outside the home I would probably naturally take on the lions share of the housework because I like being busy as much as for any other reason. The kids also really pitch in and do their part to help the family. That makes a difference too.
Both of us approach the running of our household and family as a group effort and responsibility. We have a shared vision of what we want our family and home to be like and we both feel 100% responsible for making that vision a reality. We have our scheduled chores just to make the routine easier. Zach does laundry, trash, the upstairs bathroom, most phone calls and bill paying, vacuuming, the garage and helps the girls with the family room cleaning. I do meals, the kitchen, dining room and downstairs bathroom, the living room, the babies' room and our room and take care of most of the errands. Childcare is shared pretty equally when he is home. That one we both really enjoy. Obviously as the at-home parent that falls to me most of the day, but we both think it's fun to spend time with the kids.
Routines aside, if one of us is sick and needs care or is stressed out we both go out of our way to give the other what they need. We also both have scheduled alone/friend time and scheduled date time for us as a couple. In my admittedly brief (8 years) experience of marriage, the quickest way to disintegrate family harmony is to start bickering about what is "fair" and who "should" be doing what. "Fair" and "Should" are fighting words. Life isn't fair and nothing is always 50/50. There's give and take and both of us seek to give a little more than we take, leaving the other feeling well cared for and loved. What I "should" do is whatever needs to be done to the best of my ability. Same for him. No drama. No fuss.
That's only traditional for the last few decades in certain cultures. It's not some sort of historic tradition of all times, in all places. Yet, children have grown up throughout history safely, and for the most part, reasonably well adjusted...
So long as a child has people who give love and nurturing, is not subjected to abuse, etc. then that is what is important, not what person within the household changes diapers or makes SNACKS (good golly -- snakes was a strange typo there). Predictability seems important to me, too. I don't mean that the child will know everything that is going on, but that the child can plan for patterns in life.
I think that it very much depends on individual family circumstances, personalities, financial considerations.
Exactly. And in our household, we don't think it depends on gender. We also split up household activities by interest, skill, available time, and so on.
One of the main reasons both my wife and I embraced the downsizing/YMOYL approach was so that we could each spend more time with our child. Previous to that, we were each working 60+ hour/week professional jobs. Upon the birth of our daughter, we quickly found that *neither one of us* wanted to continue doing that.
"Are you from a time/era when child-rearing was women's work and bringing home the bacon was for the men?"
Yes, and I'm endlessly grateful to have grown up at a time when women's choices were expanded to include opting out of that arrangement. I don't know what I'd have done in the nineteenth century--passing myself off as a man would never have worked, so I couldn't have been a mercenary. Maybe a madam? As I say, I'm happy to be here now.
treehugger
3-15-11, 2:34pm
Yes, and I'm endlessly grateful to have grown up at a time when women's choices were expanded to include opting out of that arrangement.
Ditto to that. Choices for women (men have always had more choices, by default) are a beautiful thing. By the way, I was raised by a very traditionally-minded mother, and I am sure she still can't figure out what she did wrong to turn out someone as independent and go-against-the-norm as I. :)
Kara
No one is "better" at being a stay at home parent or a breadwinner. There are social conventions that can give one an edge. Prejudices and sterotypes that can interfere with the whole situation. After several years as a stay at home dad/bread winning mom family it was great when my wife stumbled across this book. http://www.amazon.com/Daddy-Shift-Stay-at-Home-Breadwinning-ParentingAreTransforming/dp/0807021202/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1300225976&sr=8-2
When my career ramped up in my mid-40s, my kids were adolescent/teen-age. My DH had an editing suite in his office (he's a video producer). I traveled all over for weeks at a time--he stayed at home. It was great. It was an organic decision--not based on "what's the best way" but "what's the best way for us right now?"
I agree wholeheartedly with Jane--both my mother and MIL had limited options when they each lost their husbands prematurely with young children to raise. I'm so glad I and my daughter have had the opportunities and the choice to do well for ourselves and not have to depend on a male breadwinner.
I really think it depends on the people involved. Temperaments and desires, as well as each person's skills, can mean a lot when making these decisions.
What has worked for us has been this: We initially planned to have me stay home for a bit in the beginning, then go back to work when the kids were school-aged. But, our first child was a preemie, and required a LOT of care by someone who was going to be home full-time. So, because my husband was in a position to make more money, and because I really wanted to be at home more than at work (and handled the medical end of things better), we sent him back to school at night to make enough for me to stay home for the duration. He got a masters in Computers and Information Sciences, and I've been homeschooling our 4 kids and planning to go back to college at some point, probably when the last kid goes...
We also have hefty life insurance policies, just in case.
I have to stress that I don't believe that would work for everyone, and that while it's ideal for us it is not something I consider perfect for all families.
Bastelmutti
3-15-11, 7:57pm
I think this is the first discussion I have ever participated in with a majority SAHD families!!! So unusual. But then, members here usually do march to their own drummer.
Wow! Thanks for all the replies you guys! :) It's great reading everyone's insight into this. Never am I ever disappointed when I think of thread topics like this and present them here. Always lots of great experience being shared.
P.S. Zzz. I caught your "snakes" entry earlier in the day and thought to myself, "hmmm, another saying I've never heard of before". :laff:
P.S. Mattj. Thanks for the book link.
Just wanted to clarify a little something now that it's on my mind. Even though I'm old-fashioned and traditional in the sense of many past and outdated ways, never does the thought cross my mind in relation to one parent being better than another when it comes to either staying home with the children or working to hold the fort down. As a few of you touched on, it all depends on each family unit.
Bastel. You are right, so many participating dads here! So nice to see. :)
goldensmom
3-16-11, 6:39am
I have deeply held convictions for the traditional, centuries old ideal of dad at work, mom at home but circumstances often dictate otherwise. My circumstances dictated otherwise so I was not a stay at home mom. Adding to what another poster noted, children have grown up throughout history being just fine and becoming good, productive and responsible adults in a multitude of family situations. I have a friend who was raised by a single dad. Their family of 9 children celebrated Mother’s Day with a big celebration for dad. Their circumstances dictated that dad wore many hats and he did a great job being everything he could be to his children. Given the choice, I still vote traditional for my own situation.
Note - I think that women can be traditional stay at home moms and still vote and wear pants, that is, have choices.
Bastelmutti
3-16-11, 9:43am
Nothing wrong with being traditional and wanting and realizing that lifestyle for your family. It's when public figures seem to want to dictate it for everyone that's the problem! ;-)
Good morning Goldensmom and Bastel! I vote for traditional too and am so grateful I've been able to choose that path. Good point on the choice issue GM and Bastel! P.S. I am sooo grateful I get to wear/have pants!!! When I think of this from an old-fashioned and traditional standpoint, it's really one of the few areas where I'm modern. :)
Like most other's here, I think it's up to the individual, the couple and the family to decide what works best for them rather then adhere to traditional gender roles. Tradition doesn't always equate "good". Owning slaves use to be a tradition along with alot of other horrendous behaviors that society upheld because that was the way it had always been done. As long as each person has the freedom and opportunity to choose for themselves what role they want in life (or combination of roles) then I think it's all great. I love that men are not only more willing to be involved with child rearing and family issues, but want to fully take part in them. And I know alot of men that are very happy to have spouses that want to help in providing for the family and with other chores they usually do. Sharing the duties, how ever they are divided up, is part of sharing a life together IMHO.
I'm not yet a parent, but I would ideally like to be able to split childcare between my partner and myself and not rely on a daycare service. The practicalities of this have yet to be determined, but I would like my children to be able to spend good amounts of time with both of us.
I grew up in a very 'traditional' family as far as childcare and employment are concerned. My mum has been a full-time stay-at-home mother since I was born (+ 2 younger siblings) and my dad has always worked full-time. I think my brothers and I were very lucky to have our mother look after us, rather than being carted off to a babysitter or whatever. We used to go on family trips at the weekend, so we got to spend time with our dad. It would have been nice to see him more often though. The only downside has been that my mother did not/does not maintain an active social life (even after all three of us were in school full-time) and has lost a lot of confidence as a result. Now that two out of three of her children have left home, she spends 6 hours a day at home alone, rarely venturing out. She has to be with my dad if she wants to go anywhere further afield than the corner shop. This saddens me immensely, but she seems happy enough, so it's not really my place to say anything.
goldensmom
3-19-11, 8:21am
Tradition doesn't always equate "good".
That reminds me of conversations I used to have with a particular friend. When we had differing opinions she would assign a good/bad, right/wrong label to each opinion. My response often was ‘sometimes different is just that, different‘.
Hi Spartana. You sum it up very nicely.
Mira. I think exactly like you, so appreciative of being raised by my mom who was always at home. Regarding your mom and her time, my guess would be she is most content and happy. My parents tell me all the time that the older you get, the more content you are doing your own thing and being by yourself.
Goldensmom. Great point on the "different" issue. So true.
I'll jump on the bandwagon of "it depends". I have a lot of SAHM friends. And right after I had my son, when I was in my new-mom group (that had as many as 50 people in it), it seemed as if 80% were staying home. I got a LOT of looks for going back to work full time at 3 months. I'd say that only about 3-4 of us did that, with more going back part time.
But by age two, 80% were working again. So, does anyone remember/care that I went back right away? Will it always be a black mark? Eh.
I've got friends who love being SAHMs. Some who were serious career women and then quit. Those conversations are fun (NOT!) They want to explain why they quit because they don't want to miss anything and the baby is so little and...they are trying not to offend you while explaining it. I like working, I love my job, I am torn between wanting to work the 50+ hrs it would take to really get everything done or to take that promotion. But I can't. Because I love my kid, and right now, 40-42 hrs/week is just going to have to do.
My mother always prided herself on "being there when you got home from school," but I think she would have been happier if she had cultivated a life apart from home and hearth as well. She had formidable interior design skills and a fascination with politics she could have pursued. I've noticed that whichever choice a woman makes--to work or not outside the home--she's bound to get criticized for it.
^ That's a good point, Jane. There's a stigma either way, isn't there?
Just noticed I made a boo-boo in the title. (I typed "child-reading" instead of "child-rearing"). I'm getting so sloppy lately and making so many mistakes. Nice hearing for everybody.
Harmony. Good point on not giving up income power. Twenty or more years ago a family could with little effects, today, not so.
Mm1970. I'm one who believes in- "to each their own". Whatever works for each family. My preference has always been to stay at home and raise my kids, even if I had a job I would have quit it in order to do that, DH would not have seen to anything else other than me staying at home. (He's very old-fashioned and traditional that way). It's worked well for us and it strikes a happy balance Re: him and I as a couple/home-life.
JaneV2.0. So true on being criticized. (Damned if you do, damned if you don't). In this case my advice to anyone deciding on such a thing would be to look straight ahead, don't worry about what everybody else thinks, and do what's best for you.
Mira. Ditto!
That reminds me of conversations I used to have with a particular friend. When we had differing opinions she would assign a good/bad, right/wrong label to each opinion. My response often was ‘sometimes different is just that, different‘.
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that I thought all traditions are bad. Certainly not a traditional SAHM and home maker. I think that is one of the greatest things someone can do with their lives - it's certainly one of the most selfless and self sacrificing things. I have the highest regard for any SAHP (mom or dad). I only meant that thru out history there have been many people (and groups of people) who have been oppressed, denied equal rights and even physically harmed in the name of tradition.
Spartana. It's sad isn't it how tradition can fluctuate so acutely from one extreme to another, and for some there is no in-between or happy-medium. I'm sort of that way, over the top old-fashioned and traditional, except I impose it and bring it all on myself, through my own desire and want. :) In my case it's a good thing.
Gardenarian
3-23-11, 4:41pm
I think what is most important is that kids don't get lost in the shuffle. Well, I guess that is what simple living is about; taking care of the important stuff first.
I'd go nuts if I didn't work; I'm lucky that dh has a flexible schedule and we are both able to work part-time while homeschooling. I get to work while still being able to spend way more time with dd than if she were in public school.
And, yes, being financially independent is very important to me.
Someone mentioned that having both parents working part-time would be ideal - and I think it can be, for the child(ren) - but both dh and I frequently feel the need for more alone time. {I imagine this is common in homeschooling parents.} I often think "if she could just go to school for a week or two" I could clean up, get caught up on this or that, do some writing, take a nap (ooh la la!)
Originally posted by Gardenarian.
I think what is most important is that kids don't get lost in the shuffle.Bingo.
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