View Full Version : What Is Harley Culture About?
I have my perceptions, that I could post right now. But, they are fairly negative, which is not a good way to start a thread.
What an odd way to introduce a topic. But, I'll bite none-the-less.
In my mind, the Harley culture is a sub-set of the motorcycle culture, which in most cases is a fun escape from the rigors of every day life. There's a sense of freedom from worry and freedom from care when you set aside time to straddle the beast and enjoy the wind in your face as you traverse the twisties and rolling hills of your favorite routes.
To many people, the culture evokes images of chains, beer guts, tattoo's and "old lady's" on the bitch seat. But that's a stereotype most of us know to be false.
1388
What's your idea of the culture?
Well, I am very busy working on a response that expresses my view in a tactful way by not using the words (or phrase): "Death Trap" "Pretentious", "Geezer", "Excessive" "Overrated", "Obese", and without even mentioning the so-called Tea Party Movement. Until then, I'll let some others give their opinion.
for those with money to buy a bike....
mid life crisis
50,000 dollar bikes
unworn looking motorcycle outfits
harley emblazoned trailer to take your bike to bike meets instead of riding it there
*************
for the poor.
harley merchandise for the people to buy to advertise for them.
Well, I am very busy working on a response that expresses my view in a tactful way by not using the words (or phrase): "Death Trap" "Pretentious", "Geezer", "Excessive" "Overrated", "Obese", and without even mentioning the so-called Tea Party Movement. Until then, I'll let some others give their opinion.
Anxiously awaiting the tactful response, although it looks like the overall sentiment has already been expressed. Just out of curiosity, what does the Tea Party Movement have to do with the subject? I'm curious as a person sympathetic to Tea Party ideals as well as being an avid motorcyclist.
I always wanted a motor cycle. First a Vespa, which probably does not count, and later a Harley. I waited too long and am now too old and brittle to even consider being a passenger.
My daughter lives where the Harley events happen in Wisconsin. She dislikes the traffic problems, noise and some more things, stuff I cannot remember right now. I have been visiting her a few times whilst that was happening. It did not bother me, and I wonder why what someone else likes should be a problem for others. The OP descriptors seems as though they could apply to anything or any group that one did not like/enjoy for some reason.
Are perceptions the same thing or as valid as actual knowledge or experiences? I think not, even for, and maybe especially for, things or activities or lifestyles that are ones that I might not choose for myself.
I do not remember the boyfriend who owned that big chopper, but I can almost remember every moment riding on the back of that glorious machine.
for those with money to buy a bike....
mid life crisis
I've been riding off and on since the late 60's, although I didn't get my first touring cruiser until my 40's. There may have been elements of mid life crisis involved, but mostly it was finally reaching the time in life where other responsibilities had already been met. I think that's true for most other riders I know, they finally got to the point where they could afford to splurge a bit.
50,000 dollar bikes Wow! That's a lot of money! Everything I see in the showrooms are about half that, although custom made bikes can easily cost that much, I've never known anyone who owned one.
unworn looking motorcycle outfits You can see a good representation of my motorcycle outfit in my picture above.
harley emblazoned trailer to take your bike to bike meets instead of riding it there I'd like to have an enclosed trailer, but I'm not big on branding so I'd never have one with someone's logo on it. Traditionally, when we travel with the motorcycle we drive our motorhome and place the bike on a flatbed trailer. This has worked well for us on various trips to South Dakota, Wyoming, Utah, Arizona, the Gulf Coast, etc. This year we're feeling a little more adventurous and planning more motorcycle only trips. We'll start over the Memorial Day weekend by riding the bike to West Virginia for a two day whitewater rafting trip on the New and Gauley rivers. We'll follow that up over the summer with an extended trip to Montana. That's about a 5 day trip (one way) on the bike so my wife has suggested we drive the motorhome for part of the trip then leaving it at a campground, continuing on with the bike. The thing about doing long distances on the motorcycle is, well, it's tiring. People who travel to bike meets know that.
I didn't have any opinion about Harleys or any other bikes except that I wanted to have one ride on one sometime. It has not worked out to date but there is still time;)
Having said that, this gathering of bikes, including a lot of Harleys, has been an education for me into the wide interest in biking. It includes all ages, genders, incomes, backgrounds, etc. They are peaceful, fun, social and no trouble to the community over the long history of the gathering.
I believe that the Harley culture is similar to Winnebago RV'ing or Chevvy owner groups, golfing and so on. Stereotypes, especially the negative, don't work in this neck of the woods anyway. There are bad apples in each group but most of the members are ordinary Joes and Jos.
Check it out at http://www.cruisethecoast.ca/events/friday-the-13th/
I didn't have any opinion about Harleys or any other bikes except that I wanted to have one ride on one sometime. It has not worked out to date but there is still time;)
If you're ever in Ohio, give me a shout. I'll take you on a scenic tour.
I love that this topic has come up, as I can finally ask (I guess to Alan)..... "Why do some people have to make their bikes so loud?"
I think it's rude.
I have lived several resort places that are biker destinations and the noise of some bikes was like nails on a chalkboard to me.
Live & Let Live is the way I see it... however, I view the noise (of some) as infringing on my good time.
Now once they got to the Meet or wherever, if everyone wanted to rip off their mufflers and was away from other non-meet goers that's fine with me.
--- COEXIST ---
I love that this topic has come up, as I can finally ask (I guess to Alan)..... "Why do some people have to make their bikes so loud?"
I'm not a fan of loud bikes, although I understand why some people make their's so. It has to do with safety, believe it or not. Riding a motorcycle is a very defensive activity. Automobile drivers, for various reasons, often fail to notice bikes in their proximity so the louder the bike, the less likely to have a car move into you after failing to notice your presence.
mtnlaurel
4-24-14, 10:20am
I'm not a fan of loud bikes, although I understand why some people make their's so. It has to do with safety, believe it or not. Riding a motorcycle is a very defensive activity. Automobile drivers, for various reasons, often fail to notice bikes in their proximity so the louder the bike, the less likely to have a car move into you after failing to notice your presence.
Uh, who knew?
I always thought is was a 'mine is bigger than yours' type thing.
I do wish there were a way it could be calibrated for different situations... like you could turn it down slightly while idling in front of an outdoor cafe.
I always thought is was a 'mine is bigger than yours' type thing.
LOL, well I'm not gonna say that doesn't come into play sometimes. 1389
I haven't read all the responses yet so will just post my untainted opinion. I am, and have been since I was 11, a very avid motorcyclist. Starting with dirt bikes and eventually moving up the food chain to street (road) bikes. However I am not a "Harley Person" (whatever that means - I hate stereotyping people on just one activity they do) in that I like to ride fast not push my bike :-)! Last 4 street bikes were - 3 Japanese rice burning sports bikes (Yamaha, Honda, Suzuki) and one fine piece of Italian speedy fluff (Ducati).
So given that, my view of Harley riders varies widely. Yes there is a sub-set of what I jokingly call "middle-aged, middle-manager Harley clones" - people who have never ridden and get on the Harley bandwagon later in life when the income is enough so they can afford the bike and the kids are grown so they can take the risks of riding. They do seem to dress the same and go to the same biker venues and ride together. But personally I think that's great! Not my thing but it certainly seems like a fun way to be part of a group of fun people who enjoy both the thrill of riding and the camaraderie of a shared experience. And hey, if they can afford it fine.
Then there are what I consider serious Harley enthusiasts. Those who generally have been riding and owning (often collecting) Harleys for decades. Or appreciate a well made American bike and the beauty of the thing in and of itself rather than just a certain "image". My step-Mom and her adult kids where all in this group and had been riding for years. They didn't do the matching clone-clothes thing and didn't often ride in big group rides, but were still "Harley People" all the way (step-Mom even rode her big Harley into her 80's). They also had bikes (road and dirt) all their lives so were not just Harley People.
Then there are the more outlaw biker types - the Sons of Anarchy, etc... types. More hard-core and not likely to show up at the tony "biker bar" for cocktails after a group ride.
OK I just read all the posts and, thanks to Alan who answered most questions, I don't really have anything to add. Other than there is a reason people wear leather when riding (so says the woman who use to do long cross country rides in shorts, tank top and tennis shoe :-)!). But I am also curious as to Packy's thoughts since he/she started the thread. And no need to be too tactful about your opinion, we are all adults here and enjoy a spirited debate on many topics.
PS Alan - love the little sports bike emoticon. If it were a girl that'd be me - but in pink of course :-)!
I always thought Harleys were mostly for people not clever enough to select BMWs or masochistic enough to go for the Ural :-)
PS Alan - love the little sports bike emoticon. If it were a girl that'd be me - but in pink of course :-)!
Well, to be perfectly honest, I went out and found that graphic specifically for that one response. I thought that any true answer to the premise "mine is bigger than yours" required something standing at attention.
I don't know about the Harley crowd, but Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance is one of my favorite books, and it, in part, speaks of the joy and freedom of riding. I would never do it (I'm too skeered), but my DS has a bike (not a Harley--a Triumph) and loves riding it around VT.
Harley has definitely managed to build a very strong brand, with a very loyal following.
I always thought Harleys were mostly for people not clever enough to select BMWs or masochistic enough to go for the Ural :-)
I'm not a sidecar kinda guy, although I am considering having my Yamaha converted to a trike. Most BMW models, while fine bikes, don't work for me as they don't quite fit the cruiser style. They generally require too much leaning forward with your feet behind your center of gravity. I'm all into comfort.
I'm also not likely to ever own a Harley, mainly because my wife has put her foot down. On her one and only test ride on a Ultra Glide Classic, the built in vibration left her all tingly, most of it not in a good way.
Well, to be perfectly honest, I went out and found that graphic specifically for that one response. I thought that any true answer to the premise "mine is bigger than yours" required something standing at attention.HA HA HA!!
I always thought Harleys were mostly for people not clever enough to select BMWs or masochistic enough to go for the Ural :-)
Once upon a time I had both a BMW 500 dirt bike and even a Harley dirt bike (little 125 I think - geared backwards what a pain). Posted a pic of the BMW once here with young me riding. Was really a converted bike though, meant for hill climbing - seriously old school bike. Not a BMW (or Harley or Triumph) fan myself to ride but think they are lovely to look at.
I wish I was young enough to ride. When I was young, I liked the boys who were into motor cycles because I loved riding with them (no helmets back then either). My son rides a Harley; last summer he took me for a ride, but I couldn't get off until he rode up next to our picnic table so I could use the bench as a stool Too embarrassing!
It is a freedom my disabled husband enjoys.
ToomuchStuff
4-25-14, 1:23am
For me, the stereotype entails, not liking other non US bikes, or making fun of other brands. It's the "foreign brands are fun for off road stuff/dirtbiking, but I want a Harley for the road" stuff. But I do know bikers with other tastes and to each their own. (not sure what Victory is, US or foreign, or is Indian back again, or gone?)
I once had a chance to buy a (spelling?) Buell, which was/is a subset of Harley that is more of a dirt style bike (what I was told) then a street style. I didn't have the money (knowing what the Harley people I know, typically spend (don't know what is needed, verses bling factor), and I am leery of somebody else's bike, due to a bad experience as a kid.
If anyone here, remembers the movie My Bodyguard, where a bike was rebuilt from junkyard parts (something I wanted to do), I knew someone that basically did that. I was offered the chance to drive it, but the guy forgot to tell me it was just running, no brakes yet.
If bikes were larger, then you could have a couple sets of pipes (one loud and one quiet), like race cars do (theirs unbolt though). (reason they only have the loud pipes save lives thing) Cars are pretty well sound proofed now, not to mention stereo's, cell phones, and other distractions (ever have problems hearing a siren?).
That said, my bike tastes have always been WAY too expensive for my budget. T-Rex (around $58k), Carver (never even made it to the states (30K euro)), were the two that I wanted. Now, one I am SERIOUSLY starting to consider is the new upcoming, Elio (around $7k).
But it doesn't stop stupid drivers (seen the wheelie gif in person, a couple times on a highway (STOOOOOOPID). Saw a kid race around traffic, in a no passing, UPHILL and in the distance I saw his body around 75' feet in the air.
Worst one, saw a guy, stopped at a light, on a bike, talking on his cell phone. When the light changed, he tried to go with no hands on the bars, while shoving his cell phone under his helmet (in a turn lane).
A lot of my negative thoughts about the Harley culture come from the days when biker gangs all dressed alike, were unkempt and tended to abuse drugs and alcohol, and had a gang mentality that intimidated ordinary citizens. This stereo type is tamed down now, but I still see some things in the dress and actions of some Harley bikers that aspire to this standard. I have acquaintances who trailer their finely polished Harleys up to Sturgis for the annual biker rally where they will unload the bikes and dress up alike and in the same style as the biker gangs of yore and act irresponsibly. It seems like a poor standard to imitate, especially when you look around and see the old biker gang guys that are still alive and look like they were rode hard and put up wet.
I can also see the romantic side of the Easy Rider type bikers who are not necessarily Harley fans, but just like the freedom of the wind in their hair and the lure of the open road. Unfortunately a couple of close friends bit the big one in motorcycle accidents when I was younger and it sort of put the kibosh on any of my biker aspirations. I do like to bicycle, and believe it is sort of the same feeling without the noise.
My first intro to Harley riders was early 70's and the gang types. The foreman for the ranch to the north of our farm was from a bike gang. As he put it once a member the only way out was death. He was in hiding but liked my dad and would come over and tell stories.
My second intro was in the mid 80's and biker days in the Ozarks. I was a new cave guide and my first solo tour was me and 60 bikers. It was a fun hour underground, super sweet guys with a lot of rough around the edges.
Now almost everyone that I know that ride Harleys are in "Clubs" not "Gangs" and the most important part of their rides are trying different restaurants. I follow several of these groups on facebook, so I can keep up with what my dentist, lawyer, accountant, and doctor are doing.
Well, the majority of Harley people I've encountered were usually in certain well-paying blue-collar jobs, such as factory supervisor, truck driver, railroad laborer, usually with around 20+ years on the job. Nose to the grindstone, but none too bright. Except for the veterinarian and the chiropractor I used when I first came to town--but they both got killed on their Harleys. A former co-worker(production machine operator, and then 26 years at the USPS) who survived Viet Nam & several bad car wrecks, pushed his luck too,too far and bought a big, loud, expensive, flashy Harley to show them how cool he was, riding around Kansas City, where Traffic Is Murder. Guess what? He's dead. It's a Biker' obituary cliché: '"he died doing what he loved best". To be fair(even though life is notoriously unfair), I'll grant you this: Harley's Don't Usually Kill People---People in cars that aren't keenly & diligently at all times anticipating a speeding motorcycle to come out of nowhere at any moment---- Kill People. Like the gal here in her minivan who changed lanes in a 45 mph zone, bumped a Suburban, that went ove the median, and crashed head-on into a couple on their Harley who were on their way to a Biker Rally. The people in the cars survived, with minor injuries. Oh, there was the guy who, before he died, owned the glass shop I used to go-to, who was on a curving freeway on-ramp, but lost control, hit a concrete curb and flipped. These are all very recent instances & most are people I know, however slightly...My list goes on.....That addresses the Death Trap Issue. Next: why they are so slow and loud & vibrate like crazy.
ApatheticNoMore
4-25-14, 5:14pm
If you think Harley's are a Death Trap try bicycles (yes I know people *seriously* injured on bicycles - afterall what do you think a car does when in slams into a bicycle. Yea the physics of that one is the unfairness of the universe encapsulated :~) ).
So we've established: bicycles bad, cars good. Now that we've established that ... (btw I do realize cities *could* and IMO *should* be made truly safe for bicyclists via dedicated bike lanes - but almost nowhere is this actually the case currently). If you hate Harleys because they are death traps, I think it kind of logically implies hating peddle powered bikes for that reason even more.
cindycindy
4-25-14, 7:00pm
My 58 year old fit husband just recently got his motorcycle license. We have a huge Harley dealership near us and focused more on the Harleys. After test driving a few bikes there and at other dealerships, my DH decided on a used Honda Shadow. Both of our cars on Honda's and the Honda seemed like a good beginner bike. I will not be a passenger until he gets a few miles under his belt. As Alan said, we decided to try a motorcycle since our other responsibilities were met (grown kids). I realize the sport is inherently risky because you have no protection, but my DH is approaching this as soberly and responsibly as possible and I'm looking forward to it.
....After test driving a few bikes there and at other dealerships, my DH decided on a used Honda Shadow. Both of our cars on Honda's and the Honda seemed like a good beginner bike. I will not be a passenger until he gets a few miles under his belt....
The two more popular Shadow models are the 750cc and 1100cc versions. Either one will be a great beginner bike although if you graduate to long trips, the 1100cc gives you more options on the highway (two passengers on a smaller engine sometimes makes it hard to keep up with traffic). Once you start riding with him, consider some sort of seat pad. Seriously, those rear pillions are not terribly comfortable. When my wife started riding with me on a 650cc Yamaha, she made me upgrade the passenger foot pegs to floor boards, which increased her comfort level remarkably. Once we were both comfortable riding double, we upgraded to a 1300cc model with a 'pillow top' rear seat which has further increased her comfort.
I was just up on the main drag driving along, at about 5:30 PM, today and I heard a commotion behind me. I looked around, and saw smoke coming from the tires of one of two Harleys in the other lane, behind a truck,then he zigged and amost lost control & ate the pavement. He had those real long monkey bars,ape hangers, whatever. Anyway, he just about went to see jesus, it looked to me. All those guys--they'll insist oh, yeah bicycles--THEY'RE the REAL danger, blah,blah,blah. But--like I said--its been my observation that Harley People aren't engineers or rocket scientists. If they were smart, they wouldn't be a biker. You're more likely to find them driving a 'Dozer at the landfill, to make their motorcycle payments. You all should know that Warren Buffet loaned H-D $300 million a few years ago @ 15% interest! The loan was to make it so H-D could self- finance the purchase of new Harleys, until the Banking Crisis was over. Wow--how bout a bike club called "The Highway Robbers"?
Most of the people I know who ride Harleys are engineers and scientists with IQs well over 160, net worths in the 7-9 figure range, and paid cash for their rides.
To be fair, most of the people I know who ride BMW motorcycles have IQs over 180, but that's to be expected.
That's very interesting and informative, Mr Bae. But, it makes me curious---what is the IQ and income range of the typical Moto Guzzi owner? The really great thing about 'Guzzis is that there just aren't many around.
If you think Harley's are a Death Trap try bicycles (yes I know people *seriously* injured on bicycles - afterall what do you think a car does when in slams into a bicycle. Yea the physics of that one is the unfairness of the universe encapsulated :~) ).
So we've established: bicycles bad, cars good. Now that we've established that ... (btw I do realize cities *could* and IMO *should* be made truly safe for bicyclists via dedicated bike lanes - but almost nowhere is this actually the case currently). If you hate Harleys because they are death traps, I think it kind of logically implies hating peddle powered bikes for that reason even more.
I might refer to the MMM article, "Bicycles: the SAFEST form of transportation" http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/06/13/bicycling-the-safest-form-of-transportation/
iris lilies
4-25-14, 10:03pm
http://s3.amazonaws.com/img.goldderby.com/ck/images/Sons%20of%20Anarchy%20Season%204%20Banner.jpg
Harley culture exists so that old ladies like me can fantasize about bikers dudes like these on Sons of Anarchy. Honestly, I had to stop watching that tv show for a while, I was overly involved in it.
There was a discussion on one of the IMDB boards about these greasy biker dudes vs the greasy Italian dudes on Sopranso and I said: I'll take any one of the Sons over any one of the Sopranos dudes with the exception of Tony Soprano, he's tops. But Chibs and Opie (SOA) make my heart go pitter pat.
iris lily
4-25-14, 11:38pm
I was just up on the main drag driving along, at about 5:30 PM, today and I heard a commotion behind me. I looked around, and saw smoke coming from the tires of one of two Harleys in the other lane, behind a truck,then he zigged and amost lost control & ate the pavement. He had those real long monkey bars,ape hangers, whatever. Anyway, he just about went to see jesus, it looked to me. All those guys--they'll insist oh, yeah bicycles--THEY'RE the REAL danger, blah,blah,blah. But--like I said--its been my observation that Harley People aren't engineers or rocket scientists....
Our tiny female Scottish cousin rides Harleys and she's got a graduate degree in chemistry. She's about 5' tall, don't know how she wrestles that thing.
Iris Lily, there are anomalies, or whatever. Atypical circumstances may apply. I took in an older cat last fall, cause she was in dire need of a home. And she likes Doggs way better than Catts! But, anyway most of those guys are forklift drivers for a big company or Liquor store managers or Carpet Layers and stuff like that.
I don't really have any concept of Harley culture other than a certain Status Quo, pride, identity and LOUD. That's a big part of it, and I understand that the Harley sound goes with the culture, but I really hate the sound of them. They hurt my ears.
I was just up on the main drag driving along, at about 5:30 PM, today and I heard a commotion behind me. I looked around, and saw smoke coming from the tires of one of two Harleys in the other lane, behind a truck,then he zigged and amost lost control & ate the pavement. He had those real long monkey bars,ape hangers, whatever. Anyway, he just about went to see jesus, it looked to me. All those guys--they'll insist oh, yeah bicycles--THEY'RE the REAL danger, blah,blah,blah. But--like I said--its been my observation that Harley People aren't engineers or rocket scientists. If they were smart, they wouldn't be a biker. You're more likely to find them driving a 'Dozer at the landfill, to make their motorcycle payments. You all should know that Warren Buffet loaned H-D $300 million a few years ago @ 15% interest! The loan was to make it so H-D could self- finance the purchase of new Harleys, until the Banking Crisis was over. Wow--how bout a bike club called "The Highway Robbers"?
Well, the one thing I do see, is that Packy, you are NOT impressed with Harley Culture.;)
Iris Lily, there are anomalies, or whatever. Atypical circumstances may apply. I took in an older cat last fall, cause she was in dire need of a home. And she likes Doggs way better than Catts! But, anyway most of those guys are forklift drivers for a big company or Liquor store managers or Carpet Layers and stuff like that.
Last time I looked, the median age of a HD owner was 45 to 47 years old with an average total income range of $78,000 to $81,000 per year. A Harley is a luxury good.
ApatheticNoMore
4-26-14, 2:23am
I don't think I know much about Harley culture, but don't mind motorcyclist (sure a lot of people say the Asian motorcycles are actually much better). For one thing you see a lot of (motor)cyclists at national parks and forests and so on, I imagine the roads are fun to drive, but anyone who appreciates such natural wonders can't be entirely bad. Really they hang out at all the best places, the restaurants and hotels in all the great natural areas. They hang out where I love to be.
And if I want to get annoyed with them for making too much noise and hogging (haha) the road at such places, yea well look who driving a car which is probably burning far more gasoline (and if it's the car I own it's a small car, just it's a a car you know).
And I've known white collar cubical professional cyclists who drove long commutes to work on the (motor)bike on the freeways (whereas of course most people would drive - but they had more fun, spent A LOT less on gas, and probably got stuck in traffic less - but it is more risky so personally I'd just drive). I've known people with engineering degrees who motorcycled. I've known people working low level service jobs (although with non technical degrees - that happens these days) that have far more intelligence that their station in life will ever make any use of, that motorcycled. I've ridden on the back of a motorcycle once :) It was a thrill.
But, anyway most of those guys are forklift drivers for a big company or Liquor store managers or Carpet Layers and stuff like that.
not sure what's wrong with doing those jobs (I don't think they are even always that low paying)
Last time I looked, the median age of a HD owner was 45 to 47 years old with an average total income range of $78,000 to $81,000 per year. A Harley is a luxury good.
Thanks, but--that is a raw statistic. Does this refer to buyers of new Harleys? I would wager it does, and that those stats are gleaned from H-D's in-house credit aps. But, Any fool can look around, and buy a older one In the $4000-$10000 range; maybe less, and maybe even get it lot financed. But it cant be TOO junky & funky; the chrome has to shine or the other riders will treat them funny. Those Biker Groups value conformity very highly; it's almost like a Homeowners' Association.
And....settings adjusted.
rosarugosa
4-26-14, 5:51am
Interesting, because most of the Harley owners I've known have been Hell's Angels or friends of Hell's Angels or HA wanna-bes, so when I think of HD culture, I do think of biker gangs rather than affluent hobbyists, because that is mostly what I've seen. That said, I don't have a particularly negative response to the brand.
I know four people who have Harleys. One is a retired city police officer who was always a motorcycle lover and got to like the brand when he rode one at work in the motorcycle corps. One is a professor of education; when I knew him best he was a phd student. The other two are a computer technical support specialist and his husband, who is somewhat disabled from a back injury.
I think what they all have in common is that they like Harleys. There no doubt are sub-cultures where Harleys are particularly valued, but I think it's hard to make the case that the Harleys themselves create a sub-culture.
And....settings adjusted.
How the heck do you set "ignore" on here?
How the heck do you set "ignore" on here?
It's actually pretty easy. Click on 'Settings' on the upper right side of any page. That will take you here: http://www.simplelivingforum.net/usercp.php
In the left hand column, under 'My Settings' > 'My Account', click on 'Edit Ignore List'. Add a user name in the resultant box and "poof" no more annoying poster. Well, unless the annoying poster is a Moderator or Administrator, you can't get rid of them.
Good-They adjusted their settings. Like the old saying goes: Ignorance Is Bliss. They should be very happy, now, having discussions only with people who agree with them. That said, I know many, many, many, many, MANY highly -educated and successful people who don't ride H-D's and haven't the slightest intention of ever owning one.
.....I know many, many, many, many, MANY highly -educated and successful people who don't ride H-D's and haven't the slightest intention of ever owning one.
And that somehow says something about those who do?
I'm still kind of confused about the purpose of this thread. Are you specifically talking about people who own Harley Davidson motorcycles or is the brand name being used to reference all motorcycles? Either way, what is it about whichever demographic you take issue with? Your posts haven't given me a clue.
chanterelle
4-26-14, 7:22pm
In the late ninties the Guggenheim Museum had an exhibit called The Art of the Motorcycle....many, many splendid bikes from the very earliest to the then present day, film, memorabilia and writings. It holds the attendance record for a Gugg exhibit to this day. It also had the absolute most diversified crowd in attendance as well. Every group of people imaginable were there...all of them interested to enthralled by the bikes....a good many of which were Harleys.
Many attendees had bikes of every description and age parked up and down along 5th avenue in front of the museum and crowds along the street were so enthusiastic and talking to each other.
In the exhibit the mixed crowd were interacting and sharing histories and experiences and knowledge of bikes and their engineering with each other.
Elegantly dressed octogenarians and nonagenarians from Fifth Ave, both men and women, were telling tattooed and bearded younger bikers about riding the earliest bikes on mail routes and in the wars. Interestingly, some of the women riders were also pioneering pilots. It was fascinating and exciting to see people from so many different parts of society and history interacting and enjoying the bikes.
I know bikers of every age and social status but mention Harley Culture and this event stands out in my memory.
I'm still kind of confused about the purpose of this thread.
I bet you figured it out :-)
I bet you figured it out :-)
"If I Have To Explain..........You Wouldn't Understand--its a Harley Thing". That pretty much sums it up. The centerpiece of the mentality is the obsolete engine design that has an imbalance(in degrees of crank rotation)between power strokes of the 2 cylinders. This is what causes them to run rough, have excess vibration and the poop-poop put-put racket they make. But those people take pride in the dysfunction.
When I visited Anamosa, Iowa on a week-long bike ride in 2012, I spent about 3 hours at the "National Motorcycle Museum", looking at the exhibits.
It's a "those people" thing.:devil:
The centerpiece of the mentality is the obsolete engine design that has an imbalance(in degrees of crank rotation)between power strokes of the 2 cylinders. This is what causes them to run rough, have excess vibration and the poop-poop put-put racket they make.
That's not an obsolete design, the vibration is simply a by-product of a 45 degree v-twin engine with a single crank pin for both pistons. It can be dampened somewhat by rubberized motor mounts (and is on newer models), or through the use of counter balancers, both of which effect the overall feel of the bike.
H-D probably pays more attention to the "feel" of their bikes than any other manufacturer. Harley buyers are very tuned-in to the more "tactile" elements of M/C design: The look, the image and the feel of the bike. Engine vibration is a large part of that, and H-D engineers are very careful NOT to "engineer out" that aspect of the bike.
H-D is capable of building as modern a bike as anyone, but they are all too aware of what their customers want. Double crank-pins, offset crank-pin design? Any engineer can design it, but it's not what many riders prefer. H-D spends considerable effort HIDING the modernity of their designs: It's not easy to build an-air-cooled push-rod motor that passes emissions laws.
Look at the V-Rod power plant. The motorcycle press widely considers it to be one of the best motors in the entire motorcycling world, regardless of origin. But how often do you see a V-Rod on the road? It's not what the typical H-D rider is looking for.
You may counter that H-D riders are fools for what they want. At the other end of the spectrum, however, we see riders cruising Main Street on super-sports who will never see a race-track. Ditto for the showroom-shiny BMW GS models ridden by people who would shy away from riding on a rainy day.
That said, at the end of the day I prefer my Yamaha V-4 over a V-Twin. It's quieter and has no vibration at idle or at speed. Some prefer otherwise and there's a large market for a manufacturer willing to give it to them.
I bet you figured it out :-)Yeah, but I'd still like to see that response which "expresses my view in a tactful way" which was promised way back at the beginning of the thread.
So, Alan what you're saying is that: 1) Those Harley People not only place form before function---to them, Form IS Function. 2) And that, just like Those Harley People, you believe I'd better start agreeing with you---or else. Okay, Case Closed. Game Over. We're not going any further with this.
iris lilies
4-26-14, 9:09pm
So, what your saying is that: 1) Those Harley People not only place form before function---to them, Form IS Function. 2) And that, just like Those Harley People, you believe I'd better start agreeing with you---or else. Okay, Case Closed. Game Over. We're not going any further with this.
Why can't we talk about Packard People?! I am so disappointed if this thread is indeed over.
My intrepid grandfather once passed a log truck on a hill while driving a Packard. Other than some missing chrome and a crease in the sheet metal, no one was hurt. Grandfather was a soap opera aficionado, a pool shark, an avid reader and lover of the English language. a gold prospector, and an attorney who--at the time of his death--had tried more cases before the state supreme court than anyone else. Or so he said.
So, Alan what you're saying is that: 1) Those Harley People not only place form before function---to them, Form IS Function.
No, I thought I implied that some people really prefer specific form and function. Sort of like a Prius owner. ;)
2) And that, just like Those Harley People, you believe I'd better start agreeing with you---or else.
No again. It really doesn't mean anything to me whether or not you agree with me. You've simply given me an opportunity to express an opinion on a subject of interest and I've done so. You should feel free to disagree with me if you'd like, otherwise it would be a pretty boring thread if we all just said "Yep, I agree".
Okay, Case Closed. Game Over. We're not going any further with this.
Well, it is your thread. If you don't want to make your case, feel free to abandon it.
Ditto for the showroom-shiny BMW GS models ridden by people who would shy away from riding on a rainy day.
I rode my K1100LT off road *a lot*. The dealer looked at me funny once when I came back with the engine guards cracked, and grass caught in all sorts of places :-)
My current motorcycle lust is directed at the Rokon, I will confess. I'm going to mount it on the bumper of my truck to use for S&R work.
My current motorcycle lust is directed at the Rokon, I will confess. I'm going to mount it on the bumper of my truck to use for S&R work.
I'm pretty sure that's what Batman would use for off-road.
I'm pretty sure that's what Batman would use for off-road.
They never proved I was Batman!
They never proved I was Batman!And you never proved you weren't! 1395
And you never proved you weren't! 1395
Well, my new utility belt arrived last week, already used it to trim two trees and rescue one person down a ravine. And tomorrow I'll put up a couple of new antennas with it for the not-the-Batcave:
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-nYBQs_-LVl4/U1xK3Qw7efI/AAAAAAAAKRg/gQRX7_4_Dko/s720/Awesomized.jpg
Riiiggghhhht, for the not-the-Batcave. Got it!
Simplemind
4-27-14, 12:24am
Hmmmm interesting topic. What makes a "biker"? My husband has been riding since he was 15 and had a Kawasaki trail 90. Through the years he has owned many many bikes but never a cruiser of any type. If he did, Harley would be at the bottom of that list. He doesn't like legs out in front, he likes them underneath him for emergency evasive action. He has ridden both dirt and street. Our first date was up the Columbia Gorge on a Suzuki Bandit 1200. At that time he also owned a Honda CB 400F, Suzuki DR650 and three small dirt bikes (90,100,125) for the back 20. We had always planned to take road trips on the bike so for his 55th birthday he bought himself a BMW K1300GT. OMG..... heated seats! I was in heaven. Sadly, a year and a half ago he had a stroke and has not been able to ride since. He sold the Bandit but "the beast" is still in the garage and serves as the carrot of his recovery.
Serious riders are a funny breed and there are subsets. I have found sport bikers to be a friendly bunch but Harley riders don't usually acknowledge anybody but their own kind. I do know many middle age crisis HD riders. They also love all accessories that are Harley related and that usually shows them (to me) to be sunny Saturday riders. We wear nothing that says BMW on it and we don't wear anything bike related unless we are on it. We also store all gear on the bike when going into a store or restaurant. According to DH only rookies wear their gear off bike. My sister and her DH ride a Harley. We have done a few rides with them but find the shake rattle and roll to be tiring. I find most Harley riders to be extroverts that want attention and to be part of a genre. Not many I have met are good riders with lots time and miles put in. I find sport bikers to be all about the ride and they ride..... a lot. My husband rode his bike on any day it was dry, many that were wet and has been caught in hail and sleet. We are not part of any club but have done many group rides and by far, Harley riders (bike acquired in later years) to be the weakest riders. This is only our experience - individual results may vary. This post has actually made me a little tearful. I didn't realize how much I have missed it.
I get the feel this post is an attempt at baiting, and not for honest fact-finding and information sharing. It is for that reason I have not contributed, although I was very much wanting to....
I do not want to be called names, or have to be put on the defensive - so I am going to continue my sideline observation.
Well, the majority of Harley people I've encountered were usually in certain well-paying blue-collar jobs, such as factory supervisor, truck driver, railroad laborer, usually with around 20+ years on the job. Nose to the grindstone, but none too bright. Except for the veterinarian and the chiropractor I used when I first came to town--but they both got killed on their Harleys. A former co-worker(production machine operator, and then 26 years at the USPS) who survived Viet Nam & several bad car wrecks, pushed his luck too,too far and bought a big, loud, expensive, flashy Harley to show them how cool he was, riding around Kansas City, where Traffic Is Murder. Guess what? He's dead. It's a Biker' obituary cliché: '"he died doing what he loved best". To be fair(even though life is notoriously unfair), I'll grant you this: Harley's Don't Usually Kill People---People in cars that aren't keenly & diligently at all times anticipating a speeding motorcycle to come out of nowhere at any moment---- Kill People. Like the gal here in her minivan who changed lanes in a 45 mph zone, bumped a Suburban, that went ove the median, and crashed head-on into a couple on their Harley who were on their way to a Biker Rally. The people in the cars survived, with minor injuries. Oh, there was the guy who, before he died, owned the glass shop I used to go-to, who was on a curving freeway on-ramp, but lost control, hit a concrete curb and flipped. These are all very recent instances & most are people I know, however slightly...My list goes on.....That addresses the Death Trap Issue. Next: why they are so slow and loud & vibrate like crazy.
But what does that have to do with Harley's specificly? People die on all kinds of motorcycles (and my brother was killed on one - a Honda Nighthawk - while on a quiet trafficless road. He was hit by a bird and knocked over a cliff). They die in all kinds of cars too. I guess I don't understand your logic as to what makes a person who rides a Harley more at risk then anyone else who rides. It can be a dangerous sport or hobby, and yes, there are probably people who ride to be part of a group or to project a certain image rather than just to enjoy riding who might not be experienced enough to ride a big bike. But that is true with just about anything. And in my experience Harley riders - especially the older rider who has an expensive bike - are EXTREMELY careful and sane riders. Very moderate in their riding ways compared to other types of riders I know (including myself :-)!).
As to the education and intelligence levels thing...well I just don't know where to start on that. My personal experience with people who ride Harleys, as well as all kinds of other bikes, is that they all vary in their types of jobs and education levels. Some Harley owners (many/most in my personal experience) seem to be from white collar backgrounds and generally work in white collar professions and have higher levels of education. And that's not true of just Harley riders. I know just as many sports bike riders (super bikes) that come from all walks of life and ride all sorts of different bikes. They aren't all just a bunch of 20 year old 9th grade drop out speed freaks popping wheelies at 150 mph. Some are college educated professional old ladies who like to pop wheelies at 150 mph :-)!
http://www.simplelivingforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1397&d=1398713800
I get the feel this post is an attempt at baiting, and not for honest fact-finding and information sharing. It is for that reason I have not contributed, although I was very much wanting to....
I do not want to be called names, or have to be put on the defensive - so I am going to continue my sideline observation.
I also thought it was baiting but after reading Packy's reasons I came to believe it was because he/she lost some people he/she knows when they were riding Harleys. So I can understand feeling they are death traps - well, any bike can be a death trap of course and it's not just Harley specific. I can also understand not liking Harleys (or any particular bike in general) or some of the sub-sets of different kinds of Harley riders. I can even understand hating all motorcycles in general for lots various reasons. Everyone's experiences are different so maybe Packy's dislike of Harleys and some Harley riders stems from his/her personal experience and this thread wasn't an attempt at baiting. So on that note I'd love to hear your thoughts and experiences Imerullo (and any one else's too) as it's always enjoyable to see things from other people's perspective.
I'm also curious as to what type of riding other's prefer to do if they had a choice: Long distance big-bike cruising/touring like Alan and other's here do (I've done this on a smaller cruiser - a 550 Yamaha Maxim which I took on long camping trips), dirt bike riding, long distance touring on a street legal type dirt bike (called Enduro's back in the day), this is my personal favorite but I don't do it myself, Harley-style group rides and events, sports bike crouch rocket speedsters (my second favorite), puttering around town on a small bike to save gas, etc... Would love to hear other's experiences or wanna-be experiences. My wanna-be experience is to ride an enduro-type street/dirt bike from the tip of Alaska to the tip of South America. probably never happen but I can dream :-)!
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.