View Full Version : Teens and Websites they should not be on.
We filter our home network through OpenDNS, and it blocks access for any internet connected device in the house to various websites. Occasionally, I take a look at the log of blocked sites. There's always a long list of porn sites that are blocked.
Now, as a teenager, I snuck porn magazines into the house. I was not obsessive or avid about doing so, but if one made it into my hands, I would keep it tucked under the mattress like almost any other teenage boy.
Internet porn would seem to be another thing entirely, and I do not think it is healthy for either my son or my daughter to see.
(We originally started using various parental controls and web filters because I discovered by accident that my daughter, who was then twelve, was accessing hard core porn on her iPod "out of curiousity." That is not how I wanted my daughter to discover sex. Of course, as a father, I would prefer she not discover it at all).
Given that the sites are blocked, I'm pondering whether I should talk to me children about *trying* to access online porn, and assume that some of it is getting through. (Though I do snoop their browser histories, and it does not look like anything is getting through.) I do not know whether it is my son or my daughter, and I've been thinking about upgrading to a Skydog router, which would give me more fine-grained control and oversight on their computer access. Then I would know exactly who is trying to access what, and I could have a more informed, direct conversation. At this point, both of them are probably going to try to deny that they are trying to access online porn.
There's a wide range of action I could take - from completely locking down their computers - which they do need for schoolwork, and sine they are both Chromebooks, they have to have internet access to work on their homework - to letting it slip by as typical teen behavior. While I think of myself as a liberal person, I probably fall into a conservative, prudish range when it comes to the internet and pornography. I don't want to shame them, but I don't want them drawn into craving the hit of endorphins, or whatever it is, that comes from viewing sexual images, and I don't want them forming their own sexual identities around such images. If they want lascivious material, they can read Charles Bukowski' and Henry Miller's novels.
I do snoop and read emails and confront them on things, but as they get older, I'm sure they'll learn to conceal their histories better.
What have other families done.
Gardenarian
4-30-14, 7:31pm
My husband put some kind of filter on the computer I and my dd(14) use. I'm not sure how effective it is. I occasionally check dd's history and it looks okay.
My daughter and I have talked about internet porn, and I have explained to her that it's not a matter of just naked people having sex - there are images out there that I don't think anyone should have in their head (I'm assuming from articles I've read.) She dislikes the whole idea of porn as it objectifies women.
She has a Tumblr blog and she says she occasionally comes across something rude on Tumblr. She has started posting a lot of anti-pornography stuff on her blog.
My daughter has a smartphone and we have had a lot of talks about how to use it.
I told her she could only have a Facebook account if she 'friended' me, and over the week-end she posted some profanity. We had a long talk about Facebook - how it feels like a private conversation with your friends, but it is actually public, global, and eternal - that whatever she posts there, she should be comfortable with everyone seeing. She edited her post, and will keep it clean in the future. (I was pretty shocked - she never swears in front of me or other adults. I guess she's learning that the same rules of civility apply online as in person.)
It is difficult. I want to respect her privacy but I also want to protect her from all the nastiness out there.
I don't have kids and the internet didn't exist when I was a kid. However, I would make the assumption that if your kids are human they will find a way to look at porn online. Kids are naturally curious in general and about sex in particular. Rather than taking a 'war on sex' attitude it would probably be more productive when having the sex ed conversation with them to include a discussion of porn and the fact that a lot of porn floating around online does not accurately reflect what sex actually is like.
I don't have kids and the internet didn't exist when I was a kid. However, I would make the assumption that if your kids are human they will find a way to look at porn online. Kids are naturally curious in general and about sex in particular. Rather than taking a 'war on sex' attitude it would probably be more productive when having the sex ed conversation with them to include a discussion of porn and the fact that a lot of porn floating around online does not accurately reflect what sex actually is like.
This! Much more useful activity, education. Do this with your kids.
Well done jp1.
Miss Cellane
5-1-14, 6:53am
To clarify, the history shows websites that someone in your house attempted to access, but the software blocked?
Not to start marital discord, but check with your wife before talking to the kids. And check to see which of your kids' friends bring internet capable devices over when they come to visit. And that no neighbors can use your wi-fi connection.
Also, some of the blocked sites might be from ads for porn sites. I've had some strange pop-ups when searching for pretty benign subjects.
I don't have kids and the internet didn't exist when I was a kid. However, I would make the assumption that if your kids are human they will find a way to look at porn online. Kids are naturally curious in general and about sex in particular. Rather than taking a 'war on sex' attitude it would probably be more productive when having the sex ed conversation with them to include a discussion of porn and the fact that a lot of porn floating around online does not accurately reflect what sex actually is like.I agree with this. I don't have kids either but I assume that no matter what you do to shield them, they will find a way to view porn. Be that at a friends who's parents aren't that vigilant or just some kind of round about way they discover while surfing the web. And some of the stuff that is out there goes far beyond what teens of another generation saw in Playboy, Penthouse and Hustler. Much of it is very vile and degrading (think hardcore bondage and fetish sites) and not something you want your kids to view. But since there probably isn't a way to stop them any more than you could stop a teenage boy from getting hold of a Playboy magazine a couple of decades ago, it's best to discuss it with them before hand and let them know that not all things they see online are things that happen in real relationships.
I am SO glad my kids were raised before this whole new dimension in parenting.
I was just listening to my NJ radio station and they were talking about anonymous apps (one is called Secret), which are absolutely horrifying because they allow people to say things without the protection of any transparency at all. Kids in schools are using them to talk about other kids, and there is a "like" button, where someone can say, for instance, that "so and so is a creep and the only reason anyone likes her is because she has a swimming pool," and the poor victim can see how many "likes" there are, and the whole idea of it is truly scary. One parent on the station said that they had to take her daughter out of school because of all the hateful things people from her school said about her (supposedly she started dating a "cool boy" who was an ex of a "cool girl.")
One mother said that she investigates all her DDs smart phone activity on a daily basis and it's exhausting. Another mother said that she decided to snoop and found her 8th grader sexting really, really explicit stuff with an 8th grade girl.
Yes, we've all done the exploration and the curiosity and the mean kid stuff and all that kind of thing before the internet, but makes it so much more out there and uncontrollable and difficult for parents. Unlimited viewing possibilities and unlimited checks on what is said to and about other people.. I don't know. I'm glad my kids aren't young anymore.
I sent both of them an email (together), copying my wife, expressing that curiousity about porn is normal, and I keep a watch on the blocked web page list, and that I did not like how long the list was growing, or the offbeat direction it was taking (the blocked Equine pornography was what I found disturbing. (Though I assume that it is a state of amazement sweeping through the school system, and not an indication that one of my children has a bent for bestiality. Even Dan Savage in his "Savage Love" column draws a line there). I expressed that it was easy to become addicted to pornography, and that it could end up ruining their relationships. I told them that unless I saw the list growing dramatically shorter and less "experimental" I was going to turn the wireless function of the modem off for the summer. I concluded by expressing that there are vast corners of the internet that are damaging to the spirit, and I did not want my children to have damaged spirits.
Neither of them protested that they weren't trying to access pornography, so I think they both may have been at fault for a portion of the blocked sites.
I thought that would be less embarrassing for them than to have me sit them down for a discussion, particularly when I did not know exactly who was up to what.
The blocked website list has been remarkably short since then.
Granted, they can find other ways to access objectionable images, but they know I'm watching them, and they know I care.
awakenedsoul
5-1-14, 8:32pm
Good for you. Maybe you could leave a couple of Playboys lying around for them to read. ha ha... (I hope I'm not offending anyone.) My brothers used to sneak them from his friend's father. They had a stash of them in their treehouse. My friend and I used to sneak into her mom's room and read The Sensuous Woman. Seriously, it might work.
Awakenedsoul's idea is pretty good. Direct them (and all that teenage curiousity) towards healthy loving forms of sexual exploration rather then just let them find out things on their own. As a non-parent I have no idea on HOW to do that (and it would scare me to pieces to have to deal with it) but I think a parent taking the lead and guiding them may give them a more healthy non-pornographic view of sex and romantic love.
I agree. It sounds like a very good way to handle it. Since you referenced dan Savage i assume you also heard the stat he said in his podcast a few weeks ago from a CDC study. 83% of sexually active teens started having sex before getting any sex ed. I know you, and most parents, would like theor kids to remain virgins for way longer than they likely will, but perhaps if you haven't already, now might be the time to start having conversations on this topic. Everyone will hate it but it will be a good thing for them.
I did order the skydog (http://skydog.com) router so that I can keep a better eye on which child is browsing where. We also have a problem with my daughter needing to do homework far into the night because of the amount of work she takes on -- she placed third statewide in the National History Day contest -- so we would need to leave the wireless on after we went to sleep, and our son would watch YouTube until the wee hours of the morning. And when my daughter can't sleep, she stays up and binge watches Netflix. (I have a record of her getting on Netflix at one in the morning on a school night).
It looks like Skydog would allow us to set it so that our son is completely logged out by 10:00 pm, and it would restrict what sites my daughter could access. We could say, "OK, you can have access to Google Docs to work on your homework, but we're blocking Facebook and Netflix after 10 pm." At least that's how it loks. I hope it works. It's a fair amount out of our budget to set it up. ($149)
I equivocated over the big-brother like shadow that is involved in such active management of the WiFi network, but I know myself how easy it is to stay up longer than you should watching movies. I see it more as an aid to self-discipline rather than a punitive shutting down of the network. I hope it is helpful.
(It also looks like we can prioritize our computer, so, if we are watching a movie at the end of the day, ours will not be the one that keeps on buffering.)
I hate this whole digital age by and large. It's nice for communities like this, but I have a feeling it has created more problems than it has solved.
awakenedsoul
5-2-14, 6:15pm
Yeah...and expenses. It seems like so many kids are developing addictions.
ToomuchStuff
5-3-14, 1:17am
I for one, would only allow the computer use in the family room, in plain view. (ads self awareness)
Some of the reasons for this:
Any computer with wireless, could access OTHER wireless networks (neighbors, kids ask kids for passwords etc)
Less likely to use a self contained OS (Linux on a disc or USB key), that would bypass the hosts file, etc. (a bootable system on something else, will not leave a browser history you can access) This will also help with things like going through an anonymizing service, TOR etc.
Have individual log in and passwords (and make sure you have changed the firewalls, default log in, etc).
Especially with modern computers, it is fairly easy to setup a multihead system.
Provides a central point for backup and maintence.
I remember an article years ago, where someone had an issue and put up a webserver which showed all the websites that someone tried to go to. This was available for anyone in the company to look at (and it put a stop to things).
For a firewall, I am currently using DD-WRT. My next one, will probably be some other system, like PF, or Smoothwall, etc. You might already have something that would allow timed useage online.
rodeosweetheart
5-3-14, 2:09pm
"I am SO glad my kids were raised before this whole new dimension in parenting."
Me, too, Catherine. Funny story, I finally got an iphone and I went to a wedding of family friends, have known the bride since she was 2 years old. One of the kids took a photo with my iphone, and somehow, someone else;s iphone's photos obliterated all my photos on my phone. (I have heard thing happening with music, but not pics). Anyway, I go to look at my pictures and there are only 5 of them on there--four blurry of wedding guests, and someone's ass.
I said to my son, I realized that I had diapered the ass of every one in the photo at one point, so I should be able to identify whose phone it was. . It made me feel old, but glad my kids were pre cell phone.
Because your showing interest of deciding what is the best plan to follow with you kids, you are ahead of the game. You care and your kids know that. That means a lot and earns respect. Thank you for being the best parent you can be.
It's easy to say that you would only allow computer use in a public room. That's what I always said - before I had older children. There are so many ways to access the internet now that it would seem unreasonable to limit it in that way. Do I confiscate their iPod Touches or cell phones (in the case of my oldest daughter) before they enter their rooms? (I did actually delete the browsers from their iPods when they were younger).
They're at an age now where they know what's out there. They know I love them and care about the things they consume - from too much refined sugar to visual naughtiness. At a certain point, I have to trust them (more or less) while still keeping as much of an eye out as possible.
ToomuchStuff
6-21-14, 12:24am
It's easy to say that you would only allow computer use in a public room. That's what I always said - before I had older children. There are so many ways to access the internet now that it would seem unreasonable to limit it in that way. Do I confiscate their iPod Touches or cell phones (in the case of my oldest daughter) before they enter their rooms? (I did actually delete the browsers from their iPods when they were younger).
They're at an age now where they know what's out there. They know I love them and care about the things they consume - from too much refined sugar to visual naughtiness. At a certain point, I have to trust them (more or less) while still keeping as much of an eye out as possible.
Filtering software is an option on some routers (mine has some capabilities). Then don't forget the hosts file, etc. etc. etc. Personally I don't see the need for the expense of Ipad's or Smart phones (and didn't know Ipod had internet browsing capabilites), without them buying them for themselves (if they can do that, they are responsible enough for what they watch, IMHO). I don't see "my house my rules" being unreasonable.
But I am probably a little more old fashioned, as I came from more of a "want it, then you go get the money to buy it" family, to the point that I never figured out how to do some things. (for instance, get a mowing job, but have to have my own mower to do that, can't use dad's to get started. Wanted our own phone line, had to pay for it)
A few thoughts to add to the others:
One of the things I'm learning about parenting (I have a three-year-old who doesn't watch TV at home and who rarely has sugar at home) is that doing whatever you can to limit exposure to negative influences is necessary and also, eventually, a losing battle, but one worth fighting. My daughter will see all kinds of crappy TV and eat all kinds of crappy food eventually at other kids' houses, but for now, she's relatively oblivious to that because we shield her from it. Before I was a parent, I would have thought the idea of "controlling" my child's environment was terrible. Now I see it as one of the best gifts I can give her. She will be exposed to the world in all its insanity eventually, but I'm happy to try to slow and delay the process of her exposure as long as possible.
I agree with what you and others have said about internet pornography being far, far, worse than the stuff we all saw in Playboy and even Penthouse growing up. I once thought it would be fun to look at internet porn with a gay friend who looked at it regularly, and I lasted about fifteen seconds. What I saw was sick and unhealthy and demeaning. SO many people - and parents, in particular - don't understand what is out there and how bad it is.
Paul, I think everything you are doing is great. I also think because, as you said, your kids will eventually get to see what they're trying to see, that continuing to discuss with them what the difference is between healthy and unhealthy porn is important, and yes, talking about porn addicition is super-important because it is an epidemic. I also would buy some good sex ed books and pass them on to your kids. There are a lot of good ones out there. Just leave them around the house. They will get read.
My mom was a public librarian who brought home a stack of sex ed books from work one day and told me the library needed a teenager to read and review them. I was thirty before I figured out that the reviews I wrote probably didn't get read by anyone but my mother. But I never in my life had sex without birth control until I was ready to have a kid, and I think I've always had a pretty healthy attitude about sex and my body - probably because of those books and the sex ed classes at the Unitarian church which she sent me to (twice!).
I know a lot of adults who are now very grateful to their parents for being "controlling" about things like this and some adults who wish their parents hadn't been so naive and had instead kept a closer watch. In fact, I know more adults who are grateful to their parents for being strict than I do adults who resent their parents for being overly so.
P.S. I remember my two favorite sex ed books were these:
http://www.amazon.com/Where-Did-I-Come-From/dp/0818402539/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1403368533&sr=8-1&keywords=where+did+I+come+from%3F
http://www.amazon.com/Whats-Happening-Me-Guide-Puberty/dp/0818403128/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1403368618&sr=8-1&keywords=what%27s+happening+to+me
It's possible they'd be dated now, but they took a really practical, open-minded approach to sex and puberty and the tone was friendly and often very funny. The authors were quite honest about the fact that sexual feelings can happen at awkward moments and often surprise us.
My mom was a public librarian who brought home a stack of sex ed books from work one day and told me the library needed a teenager to read and review them. I was thirty before I figured out that the reviews I wrote probably didn't get read by anyone but my mother.
That was a brilliant idea! And I'm laughing at the thought of you not figuring out that you'd been scammed until you were well into adulthood.
iris lilies
6-21-14, 2:42pm
That was a brilliant idea! And I'm laughing at the thought of you not figuring out that you'd been scammed until you were well into adulthood.
I've always found librarians to be sly and sneaky in their stealth campaign to educate. They can't be trusted. ;)
I also applaud e-chase for understanding the importance of "shielding" her small child from the inevitable. Age appropriate exposure to the ugly stuff is key, and that is so damned hard in today's society.
That was a brilliant idea! And I'm laughing at the thought of you not figuring out that you'd been scammed until you were well into adulthood.
Yeah, I was, and am, pretty gullible. Another example: when my mom found out I was smoking when I was eighteen, she bet me I couldn't stop. I won the bet and, for years, thought I'd really shown her.
I don't know if the rest of you can count on your kids being as clueless as I was.
I love that library story!
I think you have to do your best and do what feels right for you and your family. I worry about making things "'taboo'' in case that would drive them to find things out in more sneaky ways, but I guess if you talk to them openly about stuff they might find online, and they know that anything they find is to be taken in context, then you then have to trust them, the same with any parenting issue.
I think control is quite a strong word but it's good to have some kind of idea of what your kids are looking at, in case something comes up that you need to talk to them about and again, trust comes in here too. For example, a friend of mine found this https://essayshark.com/blog/how-to-write-a-good-essay-1000-word-essay/ in their history and deliberated for days whether or not to talk to their son about it, although it all turned out ok.
I remeber that when I was a teenager I'd have hated the idea that my mom or dad were snooping on me so it has to be handled very sensitively.
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