My friend's dog - euthanasia

[Gardenarian]

I have a bit of a quandary. My friend is going on a trip overseas. Her dog has been recovering from a stroke, and she decided to have the dog euthanized before she goes, and she asked me to go with her.
I feel like I can not really support this, as I think her dog is making progress and her quality of life is quite good (still enjoys her food and short walks.) I feel my friend is doing it so she can feel more comfortable on her trip - understandable, but...
On the other hand, I feel like that this is a deeply personal decision, and that I should be a supportive friend. Should I go with her and say nothing? Not go?
I don't feel good about it either way.
:confused:

[iris lilies]

I have a bit of a quandary. My friend is going on a trip overseas. Her dog has been recovering from a stroke, and she decided to have the dog euthanized before she goes, and she asked me to go with her.
I feel like I can not really support this, as I think her dog is making progress and her quality of life is quite good (still enjoys her food and short walks.) I feel my friend is doing it so she can feel more comfortable on her trip - understandable, but...
On the other hand, I feel like that this is a deeply personal decision, and that I should be a supportive friend. Should I go with her and say nothing? Not go?
I don't feel good about it either way.
:confused:

If conflicted as you are I would volunteer to take complete care of the dog during your friend's vacation, making sure she (dog) is entirely comfortable in all areas--feeding, rest, exercise as appropriate. And, I would promise to work with my friend's vet if the dog suddenly goes down, to euthanize her. But even that may not be good enough for your friend. If in your friend's position I would want to be with my dog if she is euthanized.

In my limited experience, stroke dogs don't last long before another stroke. Do you know what veterinary advice your friend has received about more strokes?

I've been near this situation before and there are some friends I wouldn't leave the dog with because I don't think they would do what is best for the dog, euthanize her.

[CathyA]

That is a dilemma Gardenarian. I know lots of people on this forum are very pro-euthanasia, but I believe in most cases, we should stay with our pets until they naturally pass, and make them as comfortable as possible.
But it's a very personal decision.
I agree with you.....that your friend is doing what's most "convenient" for her. I had a friend do the very same thing..........What I mean is, it was just inconvenient for her to deal with the dog, so she put it down.
I feel like you should have a very honest talk with your friend. Tell her that you feel the dog is making some progress and you just don't feel right being part of the euthanasia.
Does she not have anyone to care for the dog while she is gone? Could you convince her to wait until she is back to make that decision?

[CathyA]

Would you be able to care for the dog while she is gone?

[razz]

That is a really tough one to work through. I googled ethical decision making and came up with this that sort of helped me think about it some more. I realize that it is talking about humans not dogs but pets are treasured parts of a family.
I have added some of my thoughts that may impact my decision if I walked in your shoes. It may help a little or not at all but I simply had nothing else to offer you as I honestly don't know what I would do.

"1 Think about how your decision could affect other people. The philosopher Jeremy Bentham coined Utilitarianism, which generally focuses on creating the greatest good for the greatest number of people. Not sure that this is a major factor except if you decline to go with your friend, you both may regret it and if you do, you may regret it or wish you had spoken further.

2 Contemplate whether society will function humanely if what you do becomes a universal law. Immanuel Kant coined the term "universality" to describe universal law.Is your friend usually acting humanely to the dog and has she done the best for the dog to date? Has the vet suggested euthanasia at an earlier time? Is there more about the dog's illness and care that you are not aware of?


3 Be rational. Emotions cloud the judgment. John Locke and Thomas Hobbes agreed that morality is based on rationality. For example, it is not rational for each person to think only of herself because consideration of the well-being of the human race is paramount for the happy survival of the species. Promoting sadness, however, is irrational.What is the expected lifespan for this dog at present? What are the degree of risk that another stroke is highly possible? Do you know all the factors of the care to date? Is she hoping to complete the dog's life which is already compromised and then have some time to recover from the pain or loss of a beloved pet? Is she so involved or emotionally stressed that she can't see any alternatives?

4 Consider a compromise if any party would be hurt by a decision. Try to gauge how each person will be affected and find a solution that does the least harm, or the most good. Do you feel that you may regret going to be part of this and also regret doing nothing or saying nothing? Will whatever decision you make impact your friendship and your view of your own actions? Compromise:is it possible that a kennel may offer suitable care during the friend's holiday?

5 Consider the duration of the effects of your decision. Long-term positive results can outweigh short-term negative results, but long-term negative results can outweigh short-term positive results. This is ultimately the difficult question.



Read more : http://www.ehow.com/how_8345065_make-ethical-decision.html

[thinkgreen]

My kitty had a stroke when she was 17 years old. She survived 14 months afterwards. She was put on medication for high blood pressure so she had to have medication given to her daily. Her recovery took awhile and her hind end was always a bit wobbly but I feel she had good quality of life up until the last day.

How long is the friend going for? How does the dog get along when she is away? Will it eat and continue to recover? I know my kitty would have pined for me and not eaten if I went away during the recovery period.

If the dog would eat and not pine for its owner I would probably offer to look after it while she was away as Iris suggests.

[Jilly]

The only person who knows the appropriate time to help end a pet's life is the pet's owner. Even veterinarians who have cared for a pet for its entire life can only offer support.

[iris lilies]

The only person who knows the appropriate time to help end a pet's life is the pet's owner. Even veterinarians who have cared for a pet for its entire life can only offer support.

Agreed.

I look to veterinarians to define the timeline when it's appropriate to end a pet's life. If it is time to consider the pet's end of life at the beginning of a serious health issue, they should speak up. At the other end of the spectrum if the animal is in agony and the owner is in denial, they need to speak up.

But within that continuum, it's the pet owner's call.

I have heard of and observed a few horrors of pet owners who prolong it all because they themselves are too emo, the owner can't face it, and the pet suffers for far too long. What is the bloody point of that? But I can also see that the OP here suspects it is too soon and the pet is being euthanized for convenience.

[Teacher Terry]

I agree with both of Iris Lilies posts. Personally I would offer to care for the dog in her absence. Of course it depends if the dog will eat, etc for you as some animals will not.

[Simplemind]

This is a hard one. My dear heart was doing poorly, took her to the vet who said the time was near. Things got bad, then so bad I couldn't watch anymore. I took her to the vet with the intention of putting her down and walked across the room to get a Kleenex and the dog jumped up and followed me. She hadn't been able to walk for days. She knew I was distraught and followed me. I couldn't do it and took her home. I ended up going back five days later and having it done. I was beyond heartbroken.
My sister had a dog who was getting old and having accidents and other issues. She felt it was time to go because the dogs health was not good and the accidents were getting costly to clean up. She went to three different vets and not a one would euthanize because there was no medical reason to do so. I would imagine with your friend that she has received advice on her pet. I don't think any ethical vet would euthanize for the sake of convenience. It is never a decision that a pet owner comes to easily and I think sometimes we tend to err on the side of waiting too long. Lots of good advice here. I think I would have to have the conversation about the vets recommendations and be supportive with all information in hand.

[awakenedsoul]

I think if I was in your situation I would say, "I'm sorry, but I just can't do it." That way you are being honest, but not going against your feelings. She also can do what she feels is best for her and her dog.
When I put down my lab/golden retriever, the vet was angry with me because I came in to his office when he was in the middle of a surgery. My dog had a cyst that had exploded, and maggots were eating the flesh. He was whimpering in pain. He couldn't control his bowels anymore, and it was too cold to have him sleep outside. I think he was 17. The vet yelled at me, "Well if you took care of the dog, and if you had kept the cyst clean..." It was so hurtful. I had been cleaning it for years with aloe vera. I had walked that dog every day, and given him a really good home. He was so sweet and appreciative. The vet tried to convince me to have him clean up the maggots, do blood work, and to keep him alive. I told the vet, "I think he's dying. You told me yourself that he was too old to perform surgery on that cyst." The vet denied it. Death brings out weird parts of people. I had already said good-by to the dog at home. He was relieved and understood. My dog was in pain and it was time. The vet was very gentle with him, and the dog laid down and went to sleep before he even finished the first injection. The vet later said something about me taking such good care of him. I guess he felt bad for losing his cool. I understood, because I came at an inconvenient time. He's been a very good vet for the last 15 years.
My grandmother and brother both had strokes. My grandmother was in a home for years afterward. It was very sad. My brother had a second stroke a few days after the first, and passed away. If I ever have a stroke, I have asked for no life support. It's such a personal decision.

[Jilly]

Agreed.

I look to veterinarians to define the timeline when it's appropriate to end a pet's life. If it is time to consider the pet's end of life at the beginning of a serious health issue, they should speak up. At the other end of the spectrum if the animal is in agony and the owner is in denial, they need to speak up.

But within that continuum, it's the pet owner's call.

I have heard of and observed a few horrors of pet owners who prolong it all because they themselves are too emo, the owner can't face it, and the pet suffers for far too long. What is the bloody point of that? But I can also see that the OP here suspects it is too soon and the pet is being euthanized for convenience.

I worked in shelters, both private and municipal, and clinics and in 28 years, the only pet brought in for euthanasia prematurely was an iguana, who was in the early stage of metabolic bone disease. We asked the owner to allow us to treat her pet and return it to her. She allowed us to treat it, but did not want it back. I think that she had already resigned herself to let her pet go and had broken her attachment to it. We saw that often, when pets were ill and the owners knew, from their daily experience with them and with support from their vets, that the quality of life was no longer there or would lessen soon.

You know, I was abrupt earlier, and I apologize for that. Sometimes, hopefully not too often, I can be a real jerk. My guess is that your friend understands that her dog is near the end of a good life and I think that I would euthanize earlier than later, just as she seems to be doing from your viewpoint.

One of my cats developed mast cell cancer, the granular type, and completely inoperable. I fed her well, kept her comfortable and when she had swellings, used Therapeutic Touch (Linda Tellington Jones' method, which I learned from a group of RNs). She, my cat, let me know when it was time, but I could not let her go. Even though she still ate well, played some and seemed to be happy and comfortable to just hang out with me, it was well past time when I finally made that final vet visit.

It was horrible. I waited much too long and it was so horrible. I will never do that again, and I believe that I let my last cat, Charley, go a bit too soon. I think he could have been around for another couple of weeks, but when he woke me in the middle of the night and cried and then climbed to rest on my chest, I knew that he was ready to go and that I was in serious risk of waiting too long, once again.

We spent the rest of the night watching television, with him on my lap. When the clinic opened I called and made an appointment for later in the afternoon. I miss him like crazy and I occasionally wish that I had waited that couple of weeks, but not often, and I do not regret the timing or decision to euthanizing him. That was Labor Day last year and I still am waiting for the right time to adopt again. I have completed all of the paperwork at the municipal shelter where I used to work, and visit once in a while.

No matter what the reason, I believe that it better for everyone, family and pet, to euthanize on the side of doing it too soon. You know, anyone who has a pet for a long time really does not euthanize for personal convenience; it is more complicated and personal than that, I feel sure.

Awakenedsoul, that was a pretty terrible experience. A little late, trauma-wise, but it is nice that your vet pulled up his big boy panties and made things right with you.

[iris lilies]

...One of my cats developed mast cell cancer, the granular type, and completely inoperable...

I didn't know that cats got mast cell cancers. It is common in my dog breed, bulldogs. My first beloved bulldog, the one that cemented my forever relationship with this breed, had mast cell tumors at the not-old age of 5 (or was it 6?) I did multiple surgeries, then finally it hit me--doh. How many time does she need to go through this.

Long story short, we then treated her with chemo and when that stopped working she was on prednisone for short term solution to reduce swelling of the tumors.

I have a friend who always says "you will know when it is time, they will tell you" but guess what, you DON'T always know. My bulldog was bright eyed, eating like a pig, and her open cancerous wounds were oozing and getting bigger daily. WTF, that could not go on, so we euthanized her when she was very alert (due to the drugs, of course.)

There are many different scenarios and seldom is there "one" answer. I feel guilty about each and every one of my pet deaths. It's just really hard to get it right. And the more involved I am with the pet, the worse I feel. But I do like to, any more, err on the side of "too soon" rather than too late.

[sweetana3]

Iris, I agree with you on difficulty. We also had a cat with mast cell tumors. One on his lip and one on his paw. Our last euthanasia was a wonderful old cat with bone cancer. We were giving him strong painkillers and he had a great final 6 months but we knew when the painkillers were no longer working and he was not comfortable. An observant pet owner can tell something is going on from activity, coat, eating habits, et.

[mschrisgo2]

From what I understand, a dog surviving a stroke is not all that common, and if they do survive, they are very dependent on their people's presence to continue any amount of "improvement" i.e. they live for their people. Personally, I would have a hard time with that, as I'd feel the dog was suffering for me.

In the case of the OP's friend, when she leaves, the dog will probably give up. And THAT would make me feel incredibly guilty, if it were my dog. IMHO, far better to say a respectful final goodbye, than to be far away with the dog suffering at the end of it's life.

[awakenedsoul]

I was thinking the same thing. At least this way she can say good bye to the dog and sit with it at the end. My dogs always seem relieved when I put them down. One had a mass at her rectum and it was very hard on her. The vet I mentioned above told me it was kinder to put her to sleep. She was a 13 yr. old shepherd/husky. I hate to see people or animals suffer.

When my brother had a stroke at 49, his friends were upset that my parents didn't opt to have a surgery that would remove part of his skull. They let nature take its course, and he passed away in a couple of days. He was brain dead, and would have been a vegetable.

Jilly, It was weird. I think the economy was affecting his business, and he was stressed about being interrupted. I have owned a business, so I could see past it. He had been so gentle and kind with the dogs all these years, I decided that's what was important. I have noticed that death sometimes brings out the worst in people. (Repressed emotion.)

[Gardenarian]

Thank you all for your helpful words and advice.

Clearly my friend sensed my hesitation, because she called me last night and told me she was going with her sister and "letting me off the hook."

I know that I can be a very judgmental at times, this is something I'm working on - so I wasn't at all sure whether it was my own prejudices ("she's being selfish") or actual ethics at work.

Thank you Razz for the analysis, I will read it in more detail. Death seems to be more present in my life lately than ever before.

I would have gladly watched her dog for her, but I am going to be away at the same time. We are getting a house sitter for our two dogs (it's very affordable - sometimes people will do it for free.) I encouraged my friend to do the same, but she didn't feel comfortable with it.
Oh, well.

[Teacher Terry]

Awakened Soul: your parents did the right thing with your brother. The same so called friends who wanted the surgery would have forgotten, never came to visit, etc. Who would want to live that way? Also we never really know if the person in the vegetative state is still suffering pain, etc.

[awakenedsoul]

Thanks Teacher Terry. We all felt he wouldn't have wanted to live that way. (He was an athlete and musician.)
I'm glad your friend is going with her sister, Gardenarian. Pet ownership is a lot like parenting. People have very different views on what is best. I think our pets align with us, though. They trust us.