View Full Version : Frustrated with a friend
Earlier today, I posted in Health and Health Care for suggestions re: a gift for a friend.
I'm really feeling troubled about this same friend.
A year or so ago, she lost her elderly father. Like many people, he had an accident at home that led to his being in a coma and he never regained consciousness. She took it really hard, and so did the rest of the family. It's hard for me to relate to her on this issue, b/c my dad was abusive and we were not close. But she really seems torn up about it, and she has some other problems in her life that are really tough.
We've been friends all our lives. That said, I'm starting to feel like she's clinging to her misery and grief, and I'm starting to feel just a wee bit frustrated. She emails me at least once a week with a miserable story about how her family and she are fighting, she and her husband are fighting, her mother is flipping out over this that or the other. She rarely asks me how I am doing. I have my own problems right now (nothing huge, thankfully).
Last week, she emailed me and told me she went to a medium and her father "spoke" to her. Now, I don't want to diss anyone's beliefs, etc., but I think this is nonsense and not real. Of course the medium had very nice things to say, like her dad was at peace, etc. I was pretty noncommittal about the whole thing. I think I just said I thought it sounded scary. Which it does.
Then her mother got mad at her for the things her father "said." Now this week it's something about her siblings not helping her when her mom needs someone around all the time (not sure if it's loneliness or what).
She is supposedly seeing a counselor. I have made suggestions. I sent her links to bereavement support groups.
I don't know what else I can do. I feel like I'm not being a good enough friend. At the same time, I want to back away.
What do you think?
Teacher Terry
9-30-14, 7:02pm
It is good that she is seeing a professional. I would only interact with her as much as you can without being resentful. Sometimes people get so self absorbed that they are not being a good friend but if this is not the usual pattern of this friendship then I would just ride it out. Of course if it has always been this way then maybe the friendship is no longer valuable for you.
ApatheticNoMore
9-30-14, 7:19pm
Taking more than a year to get over the death of a parent can be pretty normal I think. I don't think it's typical to feel the exact same way a year later as one does a month later, but one may still be processing it on many levels a year latter. Grief is a natural process with a natural timetable, but it's not necessarily whatever time table a rushed society thinks it should be. Now whether it's your problem is another matter. I don't think it is really. Of course grief support groups are for this, and they may or may not be of help to any given person depending.
I'm a firm believer in grief support groups. My mom was widowed at a young age, and she was able to rebuild her life with the help of a retreat for widows/widowers and a support group.
I understand that grief is different for everyone. I'm just finding myself wondering: Doesn't she have anything good to say about anything anymore? I also know how easy it is to fall into complaining all the time.
I'm just finding myself wondering: Doesn't she have anything good to say about anything anymore? I also know how easy it is to fall into complaining all the time.
I suspect there's more to your friend's grief than "just" her father passing away. That event may have sponsored some other feelings or issues which are demanding her attention now or which she is now engaging actively. Or perhaps this event has plunged her into depression, at least for now.
Disclaimer for the following: I'm a guy and most men handle things differently than most women do.
Even the best of friends are allowed to set boundaries with each other. It is perfectly OK ito tell your friend that you support her but that there is only so much support you can give -- some of the help she needs (i. e., bereavement group, counselor) is above your pay scale and, besides, you've got your own stuff in life to deal with.
The weekly email? Does it require a response on your part? If not, let her air it out. Read it or not.
Phone calls, get togethers? Tell your friend you want to support her, but you know you cannot meet all of her needs (i. e., bereavement group, counselor) and that you miss continuing aspects of the friendship you two used to enjoy. Maybe get together to do something specific (eat out, picnic, movie, Target run, whatever) and agree that a set amount of time (10 minutes, 20 minutes, whatever) is hers to discuss whatever she wants about her father's death, but that after that time, you two are going to do what you both agreed to do and that topic is off-limits. If Dad comes up again or if you start hearing the same discussion again and again, politely change the subject. As often as needed. Talk about you. The weather. What you made for dinner last night. Whatever.
It's one thing to be a shoulder to cry on when a friend needs it and to be the "iron that sharpens iron" as she progresses with an issue. It's another to clench your teeth through the umpteenth discussion of whatever recent battle she has had with her mom or feel inadequate that your friend needs more help than you can give her. That only breeds resentment and that's not good for either one of you -- or for your long friendship.
Sometimes one needs to set boundaries on what support can be given.
It's also possible that she feels guilt over her father's death. Perhaps she had originally planned to help him with whatever caused the accident? You just never know but again, if it's something like that it is definitely above your pay grade to solve. It's good that she's getting professional help. Hopefully they can help her work through this.
frugalone
10-1-14, 12:39pm
It's also possible that she feels guilt over her father's death. Perhaps she had originally planned to help him with whatever caused the accident? You just never know but again, if it's something like that it is definitely above your pay grade to solve. It's good that she's getting professional help. Hopefully they can help her work through this.
It is interesting that you said this, jp1. Because one time she told me she blamed herself for her father's death. I told her there was no way it was her fault (under the circumstances) and she never brought it up again.
I haven't asked if she is still seeing her counselor. I surely hope so.
We are also overdue for a dinner date/coffee date. Maybe that will help her loosen up a bit.
messengerhot
10-2-14, 9:10pm
Earlier today, I posted in Health and Health Care for suggestions re: a gift for a friend.
I'm really feeling troubled about this same friend.
A year or so ago, she lost her elderly father. Like many people, he had an accident at home that led to his being in a coma and he never regained consciousness. She took it really hard, and so did the rest of the family. It's hard for me to relate to her on this issue, b/c my dad was abusive and we were not close. But she really seems torn up about it, and she has some other problems in her life that are really tough.
We've been friends all our lives. That said, I'm starting to feel like she's clinging to her misery and grief, and I'm starting to feel just a wee bit frustrated. She emails me at least once a week with a miserable story about how her family and she are fighting, she and her husband are fighting, her mother is flipping out over this that or the other. She rarely asks me how I am doing. I have my own problems right now (nothing huge, thankfully).
Last week, she emailed me and told me she went to a medium and her father "spoke" to her. Now, I don't want to diss anyone's beliefs, etc., but I think this is nonsense and not real. Of course the medium had very nice things to say, like her dad was at peace, etc. I was pretty noncommittal about the whole thing. I think I just said I thought it sounded scary. Which it does.
Then her mother got mad at her for the things her father "said." Now this week it's something about her siblings not helping her when her mom needs someone around all the time (not sure if it's loneliness or what).
She is supposedly seeing a counselor. I have made suggestions. I sent her links to bereavement support groups.
I don't know what else I can do. I feel like I'm not being a good enough friend. At the same time, I want to back away.
What do you think?
You've been a big help to your friend. The problem's not with you but with her. She doesn't know how to deal with what happened. She's the only one who can help herself.
I'm a firm believer in grief support groups. My mom was widowed at a young age, and she was able to rebuild her life with the help of a retreat for widows/widowers and a support group.
I understand that grief is different for everyone. I'm just finding myself wondering: Doesn't she have anything good to say about anything anymore? I also know how easy it is to fall into complaining all the time.
She may need you to prompt her about noticing the positive. It's easy to get stuck on the negative and a friend asking what happened this week that was positive may be just what she needs.
She's dealing with a whole lot more than just her father's death. Sounds like her entire family is hard to be around. I would definitely encourage her to work on things with a counselor. And sometimes, people just suck all the oxygen out of the air, and we can't breathe. Do what you can, but try not to feel responsible for her happiness.
Maybe it's a good idea to do those things with her that distract her from her problems. Don't respond as much to the depressing things she might say.
I know it seems weird, but sometimes people actually think they need to feel bad. Maybe if she experiences more joy and "fun", she can see that there's benefit in changing how she feels. She may honestly think she's getting comfort when she complains. Hopefully she can realize that not complaining has its benefits too.
Good luck with this Frugalone....it's not an easy position to be in.
I know it seems weird, but sometimes people actually think they need to feel bad.
Though I don't think it's the case with Frugalones' friend, some people similarly seem to like being triumphantly unhappy, b!tching and moaning about pretty much everything. Ick.
Reviving this thread.
Things haven't gotten better--they've gotten worse. She lost a cousin rather suddenly to cancer (it was undiagnosed until it was too late) and now her sister is in the hospital with suspected cancer.
I'm having such a hard time. Every day there is some sort of dramatic email from her. Like she was flipping out about her sister last night. I told her to wait till the biopsy results are in, and I asked her today how she was doing in a PM on Facebook. She has not even answered me, but then she posts a picture of herself with her daughter and grandchildren at the farmer's market. Wait--how upset can she possibly be?! And her roller coaster marriage is really driving me nuts.
Thing is, she does have a counselor. And she's always telling me how much she appreciates me as a friend. We've been friends since we were in grammar school. We've tried the "tell me something good that happened to you today" thing and I don't know if it helps.
Honestly? I don't know how to be nice and set boundaries at the same time. It's frustrating. Especially the thing with the marriage. One day she is leaving him; the next day they're talking about building a house. Sigh.
iris lilies
8-31-15, 6:58pm
Reviving this thread.
Things haven't gotten better--they've gotten worse. She lost a cousin rather suddenly to cancer (it was undiagnosed until it was too late) and now her sister is in the hospital with suspected cancer.
I'm having such a hard time. Every day there is some sort of dramatic email from her. Like she was flipping out about her sister last night. I told her to wait till the biopsy results are in, and I asked her today how she was doing in a PM on Facebook. She has not even answered me, but then she posts a picture of herself with her daughter and grandchildren at the farmer's market. Wait--how upset can she possibly be?! And her roller coaster marriage is really driving me nuts.
Thing is, she does have a counselor. And she's always telling me how much she appreciates me as a friend. We've been friends since we were in grammar school. We've tried the "tell me something good that happened to you today" thing and I don't know if it helps.
Honestly? I don't know how to be nice and set boundaries at the same time. It's frustrating. Especially the thing with the marriage. One day she is leaving him; the next day they're talking about building a house. Sigh.
Having had a crazy friend or two who love the drama, in the end, it's not worth continuing. Practically, there is so little you can talk about with the crazy one that the interactions become seldom and short.
But with one of my crazy ex-friends we share intense interest in iris, so that's what we talk about when we run into each other. It's a safe topic, it's also something that interest us. That's only what we talk about. As you can imagine, that makes for a very limited relationship. OTOH I have a regular relationship with other people about just iris and nothing but iris. So it can be done.
iris lilies, yeah, I hate to say this but it's starting to feel toxic and annoying.
Teacher Terry
8-31-15, 7:59pm
I have had long time friendships that I have had to let die a slow death when they no longer bring any pleasure at all. Since I hate confrontation I just become too busy to answer calls, go places, emails, etc until the person gets the hint. If someone asks me directly I will be honest.
I really am going to try and hang in there. One decision I've made is that I am not answering Facebook messages after 9 p.m. It just gets me riled up if there's some kind of drama.
Williamsmith
9-1-15, 3:21pm
I have some life experience with grief. Both through my profession and in my personal life. I visited grieving people not as a counselor but as a support person. I think it is important to realize you can not act as a professional counselor. You can however, help people through their grief by just being present to them and allowing them to see that someone cares enough to sit and listen.
Listening is perhaps the best and hardest thing to do. It is not easy to be always actively listening. In fact, it is quite difficult not to either be too absorbed in another's grief or just plain overwhelmed by their complications. It is not only okay to realize your limitations, I think it is imperative that you acknowledge when someone's problems are too difficult for you to continue actively listening.
There came a time when I had to withdraw from visitation because I could no longer absorb the grief of other people and continue my own healthy development. It sounds selfish but truly you are like a sponge that is saturated. You have to take some time off to wring yourself out before you get back into it. There should be someone to take over while you are absent.
If this does not make sense to you then I apologize. This has simply been my experience and I wanted to share it.
That has got to be frustrating. I admire you for "hanging in there". It's hard to do. Some people just love wallowing. Good idea to drop facebook after 9 p.m. I have one friend who is always very negative. I've started telling her "tell me three good things that have happened lately" when we get together and somehow that has managed to take up the whole visit time instead of starting on a negative note.
There came a time when I had to withdraw from visitation because I could no longer absorb the grief of other people and continue my own healthy development. It sounds selfish but truly you are like a sponge that is saturated. You have to take some time off to wring yourself out before you get back into it. There should be someone to take over while you are absent.
excellent.
There came a time when I had to withdraw from visitation because I could no longer absorb the grief of other people and continue my own healthy development. It sounds selfish but truly you are like a sponge that is saturated. You have to take some time off to wring yourself out before you get back into it. There should be someone to take over while you are absent.
I also agree with this. A friend of mine spent his whole life looking at the negative side of everything. A little over a year ago he was diagnosed with cancer and then had to stop working while going through several surgeries, radiation treatment and several months in a nursing home recovering from the fairly invasive surgeries. He finally was declared,cancer-free, quickly found a new job, and then, just when things were looking good for his future, promptly dropped dead from a heart attack. The whole time he was dealing with the cancer I was also dealing with my father's final 6 months, painfully dying from COPD. A mutual friend of my cancer friend and I tag teamed dealing with friend so that I could focus on my father and not be completely overwhelmed. Her help made it possible for me to continue to be a good friend without falling off the deep end myself.
Listening is perhaps the best and hardest thing to do. It is not easy to be always actively listening. In fact, it is quite difficult not to either be too absorbed in another's grief or just plain overwhelmed by their complications. It is not only okay to realize your limitations, I think it is imperative that you acknowledge when someone's problems are too difficult for you to continue actively listening.
There came a time when I had to withdraw from visitation because I could no longer absorb the grief of other people and continue my own healthy development. It sounds selfish but truly you are like a sponge that is saturated. You have to take some time off to wring yourself out before you get back into it. There should be someone to take over while you are absent.
active listening is hard, it's our instinct to be thinking of a response or trying to figure out how to "fix" things. Letting her speak and you truly being present to hear her is a big job. Especially because she has so many issues. Maybe it's time to back away a bit for your own sanity. Do you know anyone in her circle that can kind of "take over" for you for a while?
maybe she is suffering from complicated grief:
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/complicated-grief/basics/definition/con-20032765
You could tell her that any hospice offers free bereavement one on one counseling or in a group, it's open to anyone, her dad did not have to be a patient. They usually have a Daughter's Group and ours was very well run. The groups of women kept in touch for years, some groups traveled together. Maybe she needs to bring her grief to a counselor who only deals with bereavement. It doesn't sound like her current therapist is helping much. Maybe she has depression and something needs to be done about that. Whatever it is, you have to take care of yourself first and this sounds so draining, so big that it has to be hard to put yourself first. You are her friend, you cannot be her therapist.
He finally was declared,cancer-free, quickly found a new job, and then, just when things were looking good for his future, promptly dropped dead from a heart attack. The whole time he was dealing with the cancer I was also dealing with my father's final 6 months, painfully dying from COPD. A mutual friend of my cancer friend and I tag teamed dealing with friend so that I could focus on my father and not be completely overwhelmed. Her help made it possible for me to continue to be a good friend without falling off the deep end myself.
I'm sorry to hear that about your dad, I'm glad there was a friend who could tag in. And that poor guy!
You may be right. I'm sorry to report her sister's testing came back with results that are not good. She has renal cancer and must have a kidney removed, then start chemo. My friend also went back to the fortune teller to "talk" to her recently deceased cousin. As I stated in my original post, I don't believe in that sort of thing.
Yes, maybe it is time for bereavement counseling. I steered her toward it for her mom. Maybe I need to remind her. I know some of our local hospitals have support groups. It didn't occur to me that hospice offers counseling too. Thank you.
active listening is hard, it's our instinct to be thinking of a response or trying to figure out how to "fix" things. Letting her speak and you truly being present to hear her is a big job. Especially because she has so many issues. Maybe it's time to back away a bit for your own sanity. Do you know anyone in her circle that can kind of "take over" for you for a while?
maybe she is suffering from complicated grief:
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/complicated-grief/basics/definition/con-20032765
You could tell her that any hospice offers free bereavement one on one counseling or in a group, it's open to anyone, her dad did not have to be a patient. They usually have a Daughter's Group and ours was very well run. The groups of women kept in touch for years, some groups traveled together. Maybe she needs to bring her grief to a counselor who only deals with bereavement. It doesn't sound like her current therapist is helping much. Maybe she has depression and something needs to be done about that. Whatever it is, you have to take care of yourself first and this sounds so draining, so big that it has to be hard to put yourself first. You are her friend, you cannot be her therapist.
ApatheticNoMore
9-2-15, 7:23pm
Yes many hospitals have bereavement groups, for free or a small donation. I resist the notion that everyone experiencing grief needs therapy (but the marriage issues otoh ...), but it doesn't mean you need to take it all on, and a bereavement support group at least might be more helpful.
Technology gives us too much connectivity at times. Stop replying to all the emails and def. back off from FB! It's hard when a longtime friend becomes too much of a drain.
You're right about too much connectivity. Years ago, if you called someone and they didn't answer the phone, well, too bad. You got them or you didn't get them later. I didn't have an answering machine until the late 1980s (and that was a luxury). None of this "I PMd you so I expect a quick reply."
I know I spend too much time on Facebook. I have so much downtime at work that I sometimes don't know what to do with myself. I need to find s/thing else to do.
Technology gives us too much connectivity at times. Stop replying to all the emails and def. back off from FB! It's hard when a longtime friend becomes too much of a drain.
Be careful you are not inadvertently encouraging how she is with you about her father. Enthusiastic replies, such as reassuring her she couldn't have caused her father's death, is trying to "fix it" for her.
frugalone
9-13-15, 12:55pm
Good point. I'm afraid I'm making myself far too available. Now she is having serious problems with her spouse, and telling me she has nobody else to talk to about it (though she is in therapy). I really can't act as a marriage counselor. Frankly, if he were my husband, I'd be out of there faster than you can say "divorce." This has been going on for years, though, and I don't expect it to change.
Be careful you are not inadvertently encouraging how she is with you about her father. Enthusiastic replies, such as reassuring her she couldn't have caused her father's death, is trying to "fix it" for her.
OP again.
I really think I've got to get serious about distancing myself from her. After a late-night text message stating that her husband was screaming at her, she was scared, he tried to break down the bathroom door, etc., she started moving her stuff out little by little to her mother's house.
I suggested she go to Al-Anon, which she has not done. Yet, last week, when the fortune teller told her she should see a counselor who specializes in families of alcoholics, she was all for it.
(What am I, chopped liver?)
So I see on social media yesterday she spent the day with Mr. Wonderful, going out to dinner and for a look at the fall foliage. I am starting to feel like a fool for listening to her. On the one hand, I'm worried about her. On the other hand, this is sorta like "the boy who cried wolf."
freshstart
10-5-15, 10:23pm
if she is in any bit of risk with this guy and her solution is to see the fortune teller, I would have lost patience by now. Can you hang in just long enough to make sure she goes to the counselor and then back way off?
I probably should not call her a fortune teller. She is a "medium". My friend already has a regular therapist/counselor, and if that's not helping enough, I suggested she go to Al-Anon. Sorry, this is all a bit mixed up.
frugalone
10-22-15, 7:30pm
Wow...just, wow.
She sent me a message today saying that her father is talking to her mom through the medium and revealing all sorts of sordid family secrets. She really believes this and it is spooking me out. I didn't do what I said I would do (distance myself). It's hard to do that with someone you've been friends with since kindergarten. She was my maid of honor at my wedding. But...wow.
It's been a bad week for me, work-wise. I just have to back away from this situation. I wonder if she is telling her therapist this stuff? It can only be described as "magical thinking." Which no good therapist would endorse, IMHO.
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