View Full Version : California bans plastic shopping bags.
YAY!!! I hope other states follow suit. I've been using cloth bags for about 27 years now. There's no reason why others can't do the same.
awakenedsoul
10-1-14, 3:09pm
I use cloth bags, too. I also have a large backpack that's designed for grocery shopping. It has all of these plastic lined zippered pockets for your fruits and vegetables. It fits perfectly on my bike trailer.
When I lived in Europe, all of the women went to the market each morning with a basket. They would buy their fruits and vegetables for the day. If you wanted a bag, you had to buy one. It seemed so sensible.
Our organic co op uses recycled brown paper to wrap the produce. They also rent us these plastic reusable crates. You bring it with you every week, and exchange the empty one for a full one. I'm glad CA has done this. It'll make a huge difference.
gimmethesimplelife
10-1-14, 3:12pm
I applaud this. I use plastic bags to this day but turn right around and recycle them but you know, it wouldn't hurt me to invest the small amount of money to buy a cloth bag and not use the plastic bags to begin with. I'd like to see them banned in Arizona, too, but we'll see if that happens down the road.....Rob
That's great! I've heard a saying on trends...as goes California, so goes the nation. I've used cloth bags for years, but am guilty of using plastic bags sometimes for produce, which seems to be common here. I rarely seen people using reusable bags for produce. I'll have to look into some options. My go to place for most of my grocery shopping doesn't supply bags, although they use plastic for produce. If you don't bring your own bag they put everything into a cardboard box that they received bulk shipments in. I live in a neighborhood with a lot of senior citizens and hardly ever see reusable bags at the local supermarket.
My city in Calif (and several other's here too) banned plastic bags over a year ago. I had always used cloth bags for food shopping but when places like Lowes, Walmart, etc.. banned them also it took me awhile to remember to bring cloth bags for ANYPLACE I shopped. They do allow you the option to buy a paper bag for 10 cents in case you forget to bring bags, but I've seen people who have fully loaded shopping carts just leave them and walk out of the store rather then buy the paper bags. I imagine in time most people here will remember to bring them but I have noticed a fairly large reduction in shopping - or at least buying - in the stores here that have banned bags last year. Most people just went elsewhere to a neighboring town that still had bags - although that will also change now that all stores ban plastic
When I first started using them (I bought them from Kroger, but they quit selling them shortly after that.......I think I was only one in the county who bought them!), anyhow......the bagger people were soooo confused by them. I got to talking to the cashier once and didn't realize it, but the bagger had lined all my cloth bags with plastic!
Sometimes even recently, I don't catch them in time, and they start to put things in plastic. I tell them no. And they wad the plastic bag up and throw it away!
It's frightening (at least in this area of the country) how many people don't have a clue about things like this.
I even found some small mesh bags with drawstrings. Again, I bought several from Kroger about 2 years ago, but they quit selling them (probably for the same reason they quit selling the cloth bags long ago). Anyhow......they are great for produce! I found more on eBay.
The key is to keep all your various bags in your car all the time, so you don't forget them.
rodeosweetheart
10-1-14, 6:17pm
That IS good news, Cathy!
Hairshirt, feel-good environmentalism.
Want to make a real change? Ban antibiotics.
rosarugosa
10-1-14, 7:35pm
The plastic bag bans annoy me.
mschrisgo2
10-1-14, 9:51pm
Well, I stopped buying any groceries at all at Safeway because every single one of their plastic bags had holes in the bottom- some design flaw, apparently- so they would use FIVE bags instead of ONE!! I re-use my plastic bags, mostly to clean up after the dogs, and it was really annoying to get so many bags that I couldn't use for that purpose.
YAY!!! I hope other states follow suit. I've been using cloth bags for about 27 years now. There's no reason why others can't do the same.
I have also been doing reusable bags for 25 years+, I have one bag that is that old and all I have done is replace the handles. I will admit I forget sometimes but hopefully I have made a dent.
It is great to have the tide turn on the plastic bag issue.
I applaud this. I use plastic bags to this day but turn right around and recycle them but you know, it wouldn't hurt me to invest the small amount of money to buy a cloth bag and not use the plastic bags to begin with. I'd like to see them banned in Arizona, too, but we'll see if that happens down the road.....Rob
You can make SUPER SIMPLE reusable bags out of old t-shirts. And many are inexpensive or very lightweight so you can keep them in your purse
The plastic bag bans annoy me.
How so rosarugosa?
There are still TONS of foodstuffs wrapped in plastic...........cheese, pizza, crackers, bread, cereal, ........almost everything.
I just heard this morning that Seattle recycles 55% of it's trash, but the city is trying to bring it up to 60%. People are to put their recyclables in one container, their food refuse in another, etc. I think this is great........although I don't understand why they are allowing meat and dairy to be included.
I think everyone living in a home (as opposed to an apartment), should have a compost bin. I think "how to compost" should be a course in school.
We are drowning in our trash. I can't believe it's taking so long to create alternatives.
Our city banned plastic bags over a year ago. At first, there was a big stink from some, but it quickly becomes second nature to carry cloth bags with you. It feels wasteful now when I go to other Texas cities who have not followed suit.
Ban antibiotics.
Noticed this message on the sides of buses while in Seattle and Vancouver this week. I suppose it will trickle down here in about a year.
ToomuchStuff
10-2-14, 11:10am
In my parents city, they have mandatory recycling (paid for by 1% earnings tax, along with trash service). Food CONTACT stuff isn't allowed to be recycled, due to insects. You can recycle the box a frozen dinner comes in, but not the plastic that held it.
There is also some plastic that isn't recyclable (don't remember the number on it).
Went and found the list my parents sent, for when I am asked to dogsit. Not recyclable in the blue bin's provided: Glass, plastic bags, styrofoam, Motor oil bottles or other automotive product bottles, egg cartons, paper towels, tissues, napkins, plates or cups, waxed containers like milk cartons or juice boxes, gift wrap, shredded paper, plastic tubs.
I use nylon bags, if compressed hard enough they're about the size of golfballs and I'm still using the original half dozen I bought in 1998. I can fit all of them in the zipper compartment of my medium sized purse, which is usually enough for all my groceries. I look like a magician with silk scarves when these "bloom" out of my bag, and they have the disadvantage of not standing upright, but they're a great compromise because they are always with me.
Bae ... we're doing about a million things wrong. Some days I find it difficult to find one single thing we as a society are doing right, our whole mindset seems insanely off course. While reusable shopping bags aren't The Answer, using them is hopefully one more gram toward the tipping point of awareness and change; call it a gateway habit. I go to other sites and I'm continually amazed by comments that show an absolutely rabid rejection of anything that smacks of critical thought, it's really shocking how many people are apparently not even willing to consider the idea of responsible action. I think the reusable shopping bag is a flag, a way of saying, "I'm aware there's a problem out there, I do care, I want to do something", and that's an essential beginning.
Hi Kib. Nice to see you! :)
Hi Kib. Nice to see you! :)
Nice to be seen. :~)
ApatheticNoMore
10-19-14, 5:57pm
While reusable shopping bags aren't The Answer, using them is hopefully one more gram toward the tipping point of awareness and change; call it a gateway habit.
yea that's how everyone I know who fights for such things actually thinks about it. At worst I suppose they are the detective looking under street lamps for clues, because that's where the light is! At best, well plastic bags aren't going to solve all environmental problems, I don't think anyone thinks that, but at best it's less liter on the side of the highway, blowing around, that gets washed out to sea (and those plastic bags supposedly do get washed out to sea), etc.. There's usually an option to pay for a paper bag for a few cents, so it's not a catastrophe if you forgot your bags.
This is one of those half-measures that may have SOME short-term effect, in some way. But, they are fighting a losing battle. What will the total pop of California be in another 25 years? Prolly 40-50 million? 50 years--100 million? If trends continue, laws like that won't matter. The citizens will all be shopping at grocery stores that resemble the present-day hippy "whole foods" market, getting their rice out of a barrel and scooping it into a tin can they've been using for years. Think: India. Micromanaging the situation is useless; it's the population boom, stupid! Paul Ehrlichs' prophesy has not come true, not quite yet; neither has Orwells' political scenario ; but they are shaping up pretty fast.
I will be moving to Bellingham, WA, shortly, where they have also banned plastic bags. One question: in the past, I've reused plastic shopping bags for scooping up cat and dog poop for my own cats and my clients' dogs, respectively. I can't flush the cat poop down the toilet because of the clinging litter. Any suggestions for eco-friendly solutions to the inevitable poop-scoop problem?
catherine
10-20-14, 8:09am
One question: in the past, I've reused plastic shopping bags for scooping up cat and dog poop for my own cats and my clients' dogs, respectively. I can't flush the cat poop down the toilet because of the clinging litter. Any suggestions for eco-friendly solutions to the inevitable poop-scoop problem?
I have to admit that I use plastic bags in the supermarket so that I can reuse them as poop bags, and I also don't see solutions to that. I'm sure there's somebody who's thought up a green pooper-scooper, but when I'm walking around the neighborhood I'm not going to carry around a contraption on a stick.
I was wondering that too Selah. Even when people say "Oh, I use those for collecting pet's poop"........the plastic bag still ends up in the trash. I'm not sure what to do. Maybe find out if there's a decent way of "composting" animal poop? How did people used to do it in the "old days"? I suppose you could just use a page of newspaper or a paper bag. It's not as convenient, but it won't wreck the environment.
Maybe you could get a small steel garbage can with a lid and line it with something like an empty pet's food bag and then put it in the trash when it's full?
It's a modern-day eco dilemma, for sure!
catherine........there are lots of food plastic bags that, unfortunately, don't have a recycling number on them. Maybe you could save those and collect the poop in those? Although more and more of them are showing up with numbers on them. (carrot bags, etc.). I know they aren't as flexible but it's a possibility.
I guess this is one of those "First-world" problems!
Fortunately, our hands are washable. I'm not suggesting picking up poop bare-handed........just that maybe using something else won't be as "clean" as a big plastic shopping bag.
I try to use my own bags as much as possible and still end up with lots of plastic bags - enough to line all our trash cans every week. We've always just tossed them in a closet in the kitchen and the other day I was cleaning it out and ended up with two paper grocery bags stuffed full of plastic bags (oh the shame). I'll drop those off at the thrift shop, they are always asking for bags.
In the old days on the farm, our pets (who lived outdoors) pooped wherever they wanted to and it stayed there. If it was in the yard, we used a shovel to toss it into the fields.
My thought for the eventual day when no plastic bags are used anywhere ... I will then have to purchase garbage bags. I use cloth bags sometimes, but I also use every plastic bag I get for trash. I don't buy trash bags, and we recycle a lot so only have a small grocery bag of trash every few days. For my household, banning plastic shopping bags will change nothing as far as the amount of plastic in the landfills.
I'm like Tammy, my pets have always had plenty of room to roam. I don't even know where the cat goes to do her business. In the 10 years she has been here I've never seen her poo. I know the trail up through the woods where the dog goes but he goes off trail somewhere because I've never seen poo when walking that trail. (appreciating the country life right now)
ToomuchStuff
10-20-14, 9:47am
In the old days on the farm, our pets (who lived outdoors) pooped wherever they wanted to and it stayed there. If it was in the yard, we used a shovel to toss it into the fields.
My thought for the eventual day when no plastic bags are used anywhere ... I will then have to purchase garbage bags. I use cloth bags sometimes, but I also use every plastic bag I get for trash. I don't buy trash bags, and we recycle a lot so only have a small grocery bag of trash every few days. For my household, banning plastic shopping bags will change nothing as far as the amount of plastic in the landfills.
Will plastic be banned all together, or just in bag form? (I can't see that)
Here, plastic bags are reused for small trash cans (smaller then kitchen trash bags), transfering stuff between family and friends, walking the dog bags, thrift store drop off bags, etc. So many trash can's are plastic now days, if they ban plastic, then the old galvanized trash can's will be coming back. (and remembering replacing the bottoms of those?)
What about burn piles (have one of them on the farm)?
I will be moving to Bellingham, WA, shortly, where they have also banned plastic bags. One question: in the past, I've reused plastic shopping bags for scooping up cat and dog poop for my own cats and my clients' dogs, respectively. I can't flush the cat poop down the toilet because of the clinging litter. Any suggestions for eco-friendly solutions to the inevitable poop-scoop problem?
Selah, meant in jest..................................
You could always use a flamable paper bag and drop it off on a porch.:laff:
Not a bad idea, really--you can use paper lunch bags to contain cat and dog waste.
awakenedsoul
10-20-14, 10:43am
They make biodegradable poop bags. You'd have to buy them, but they break down...I use them on my dog walks.
I do buy plastic storage containers.....but they are all pretty much recyclable now.......which is what I do with mine when they are kaput.
But like I said before...........think of everything in the grocery store.....it's pretty much all in plastic.......cheese, chips, meat, crackers.....Some things used to be in waxed paper (like crackers, inside the cardboard box).....but now they are plastic. And packaging of pillows, comforters, sheets, etc., etc. Plastic is absolutely everywhere. I lose sleep over what's going to become of our earth.......
And, imho, it does no good to say "oh......but I use them for dog poop, or taking stuff to goodwill, etc." because they will still most likely end up in the earth. And recycling takes alot of resources and energy too.
Poop bags. No, kids--I place pet poop in my special pet poop 'post heap, along with yard waste, not in bags. No, I'm not gonna use the 'post to make soil for my pea patch. As for those bags, if you've got a wood stove, they do burn quite well. That is what I do to dispose of them in the winter. Californians will prolly want to secede when there are 100,000,000,000 of them.
catherine
10-20-14, 2:30pm
Poop bags. No, kids--I place pet poop in my special pet poop 'post heap, along with yard waste, not in bags. No, I'm not gonna use the 'post to make soil for my pea patch. As for those bags, if you've got a wood stove, they do burn quite well. That is what I do to dispose of them in the winter. Californians will prolly want to secede when there are 100,000,000,000 of them.
Hey, Packy, totally OT (with my apologies to the OP), but if I were to guess your age based on your posts vs. based on your use of the so-called word "prolly" there would be a serious disconnect. So, I'm not asking your age, but I am asking why you and my daughter can't spell "probably" right? Seems like this is an outgrowth of the Text Generation, but geez...
Hey, Packy, totally OT (with my apologies to the OP), but if I were to guess your age based on your posts vs. based on your use of the so-called word "prolly" there would be a serious disconnect. So, I'm not asking your age, but I am asking why you and my daughter can't spell "probably" right? Seems like this is an outgrowth of the Text Generation, but geez...Yah, U R Prolly right!
They make biodegradable poop bags. You'd have to buy them, but they break down...I use them on my dog walks.This is what I use also. I also believe that more plastic articles (including bags) will eventually be made of biodegradable material. I have a friend who owns a company that makes biodegradable and compostable paper and plastic and "Styrofoam-type" products like plates, cups, utensils, containers for food, etc... stuff that many people use for picnics and parties and then throw in the trash. I believe they are corn-based and not oil based like plastic. Right now they cost a lot more but as people start using them more often I imagine the price will decrease. My city has also banned Styrofoam product a few years ago and now you can't buy them anywhere and aren't suppose to use them whenyou have picnics at the beach or park.
I think styrofoam should be banned. Nobody wants to recycle it. I guess it doesn't make them enough money.
Nobody (recycling companies) recycle plastic utensils either. I had 3 gallon ziploc bags full of ones I collected over the past 20 years. No organization takes "used" plastic utensils and they aren't recyclable. I called the local Boys and Girls Club, and they were very excited to have them! I know they will still probably end up in the earth.......but at least they'll be used for awhile first. I just couldn't bear to throw them in the trash. I was relieved that someone wanted them.
I get so discouraged that there are so many consumers that don't even think about anything other than getting what they want, and then later putting it in the trash.
ApatheticNoMore
10-20-14, 6:04pm
This is what I use also. I also believe that more plastic articles (including bags) will eventually be made of biodegradable material. I have a friend who owns a company that makes biodegradable and compostable paper and plastic and "Styrofoam-type" products like plates, cups, utensils, containers for food, etc... stuff that many people use for picnics and parties and then throw in the trash. I believe they are corn-based and not oil based like plastic. Right now they cost a lot more but as people start using them more often I imagine the price will decrease.
How is this supposed to biodegrade? In a compost pile? Maybe. Does it? If anyone has run that experiment maybe they know. But biodegradable plastics don't degrade buried in a landfill, they don't have enough exposure to the elements to degrade in that situation. So ... it's a marketing gimmick mostly.
Styrofoam in small chunks burns just fine in a wood stove, but emits a dense black smoke. So, you'd want to use it very late at night, and use small pieces of it, because it burns very fast and hot. I use it to start bigger pieces of wood that may be a bit wet or green.
flowerseverywhere
10-20-14, 6:50pm
All I can think of when I see someone walking a dog swinging a bag of dog poop is a picture in my head of a bunch of scientists standing around an archeological dig scratching their heads wondering why people thought their dog poop was so important they had to tie it up in a non degrade able plastic bags to preserve for posterity.
How is this supposed to biodegrade? In a compost pile? Maybe. Does it? If anyone has run that experiment maybe they know. But biodegradable plastics don't degrade buried in a landfill, they don't have enough exposure to the elements to degrade in that situation. So ... it's a marketing gimmick mostly.Well technically almost nothing biodegrades in a landfill - even easily biodegradable stuff - so that is just as true for biodegradable plastic. However, in a an air filled/moisture filled environment they DO biodegrade easily since they are corn-based rather than petroleum based. Maybe we need to change how landfills are designed as well as how plastic products are. http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2009/05/do-biodegradable-plastics-really-work
an bit from the link above:
What about biodegradable plastics? They're pretty neat: Microorganisms can convert biodegradable plastics into water, carbon dioxide, and biomass—with no nasty chemical leftovers. However, there is a lot of confusion surrounding these ecofriendlier plastics—some of it intentional. "This word 'biodegradable' has become very attractive to people trying to make quick bucks on it," explains Narayan, who helped develop biodegradable corn-based plastic. Some companies, he says, are making conventional plastic that degrades quickly and then throwing around claims about biodegradability that are unproven or just too good to be true.
Can biodegradable plastics break down in landfills? This claim, which now shows up on everything from water bottles to trash bags to Discover's "biodegradable PVC" credit cards, is "disingenuous at best," says Narayan. Usually, nothing biodegrades in a landfill. But if biodegradable plastics do break down in this oxygen-free environment, they'll emit methane, a greenhouse gas 23 times more potent than CO2.
And some more info from this web site:
http://science.howstuffworks.com/science-vs-myth/everyday-myths/how-long-does-it-take-for-plastics-to-biodegrade.htm
Of course, plastic buried in a landfill rarely sees the light of day. But in the ocean, which is where a lot of discarded grocery bags, soft drink bottles and six-pack rings end up, plastic is bathed in as much light as water. In 2009, researchers from Nihon University in Chiba, Japan, found that plastic in warm ocean water can degrade in as little as a year. This doesn't sound so bad until you realize those small bits of plastic are toxic chemicals such as bisphenol A (BPA) and PS oligomer. These end up in the guts of animals or wash up on shorelines, where humans are most likely to come into direct contact with the toxins.
One solution to this environmental disaster is biodegradable plastic. There are two types currently on the market -- plant-based hydro-biodegradable plastic and petroleum-based oxo-biodegradable plastic. In the former category, polylactic acid (PLA), a plastic made from corn, tops the list as the most talked-about alternative. PLA decomposes into water and carbon dioxide in 47 to 90 days -- four times faster than a PET-based bag floating in the ocean. But conditions have to be just right to achieve these kinds of results. PLA breaks down most efficiently in commercial composting facilities at high temperatures. When buried in a landfill, a plastic bag made from corn may remain intact just as long as a plastic bag made from oil or natural gas.
Biodegradable compost bags have a half-life of about two days, by my reckoning. I usually just throw my compostables into a newspaper-lined paper shopping bag.
Well technically almost nothing biodegrades in a landfill - even easily biodegradable stuff - so that is just as true for biodegradable plastic. However, in a an air filled/moisture filled environment they DO biodegrade easily since they are corn-based rather than petroleum based. Maybe we need to change how landfills are designed as well as how plastic products are. http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2009/05/do-biodegradable-plastics-really-work
an bit from the link above:
What about biodegradable plastics? They're pretty neat: Microorganisms can convert biodegradable plastics into water, carbon dioxide, and biomass—with no nasty chemical leftovers. However, there is a lot of confusion surrounding these ecofriendlier plastics—some of it intentional. "This word 'biodegradable' has become very attractive to people trying to make quick bucks on it," explains Narayan, who helped develop biodegradable corn-based plastic. Some companies, he says, are making conventional plastic that degrades quickly and then throwing around claims about biodegradability that are unproven or just too good to be true.
Can biodegradable plastics break down in landfills? This claim, which now shows up on everything from water bottles to trash bags to Discover's "biodegradable PVC" credit cards, is "disingenuous at best," says Narayan. Usually, nothing biodegrades in a landfill. But if biodegradable plastics do break down in this oxygen-free environment, they'll emit methane, a greenhouse gas 23 times more potent than CO2.
And some more info from this web site:
http://science.howstuffworks.com/science-vs-myth/everyday-myths/how-long-does-it-take-for-plastics-to-biodegrade.htm
Of course, plastic buried in a landfill rarely sees the light of day. But in the ocean, which is where a lot of discarded grocery bags, soft drink bottles and six-pack rings end up, plastic is bathed in as much light as water. In 2009, researchers from Nihon University in Chiba, Japan, found that plastic in warm ocean water can degrade in as little as a year. This doesn't sound so bad until you realize those small bits of plastic are toxic chemicals such as bisphenol A (BPA) and PS oligomer. These end up in the guts of animals or wash up on shorelines, where humans are most likely to come into direct contact with the toxins.
One solution to this environmental disaster is biodegradable plastic. There are two types currently on the market -- plant-based hydro-biodegradable plastic and petroleum-based oxo-biodegradable plastic. In the former category, polylactic acid (PLA), a plastic made from corn, tops the list as the most talked-about alternative. PLA decomposes into water and carbon dioxide in 47 to 90 days -- four times faster than a PET-based bag floating in the ocean. But conditions have to be just right to achieve these kinds of results. PLA breaks down most efficiently in commercial composting facilities at high temperatures. When buried in a landfill, a plastic bag made from corn may remain intact just as long as a plastic bag made from oil or natural gas. I completely agee with this, Sparty, Ol' Buddy. S'why I burn as much stuff to provide heat, or send anything re-cycleable along. Landfills, these days, are sealed pits in which natural decomposition of biodegradeables is very difficult, and other disposed-of items will remain there for centuries.. They are like The Pyramids, of Egypt. They, are NOT a solution, at all. I picked up a perfectly useable "Total Gym", at the dump, last time I went--3 years ago. So, Spartana-- do you have some workout photos of yourself that you could post here, to set an example for the other pizza-eaters on this board? Just Curious.
Biodegradable compost bags have a half-life of about two days, by my reckoning. I usually just throw my compostables into a newspaper-lined paper shopping bag.Guess I wouldn't want them if they break down that fast if I'm walking my dog at the park - yuck! But I do wonder how user-friendly they are even if takes several months to biodegrade. How would you store them? Maybe packaged in air and water tight containers. And as ANM pointed out, how good are they if they can't really be composted at a landfill? Although I guess they are much less harmful to the environment if they somehow end up in the water or out in the open land or people home-compost since they do break down fairly fast. I know in Calif there are 16 facilities that do compost biodegradable corn-based plastics but you probably have to get them there your self. Too much work and hassle for most people probably.
All I can think of when I see someone walking a dog swinging a bag of dog poop is a picture in my head of a bunch of scientists standing around an archeological dig scratching their heads wondering why people thought their dog poop was so important they had to tie it up in a non degrade able plastic bags to preserve for posterity.
You don't think they'll still be picking up their own dog's poop by then? ;) I think dogs and dog owners will still probably be around, and dog poop will still have to be picked up...but possibly maybe a better way to do it by then. :)
SteveinMN
10-21-14, 10:03am
No organization takes "used" plastic utensils and they aren't recyclable. I called the local Boys and Girls Club, and they were very excited to have them! I know they will still probably end up in the earth.......but at least they'll be used for awhile first.
On the rare occasions we get take-out, we usually refuse the packet of plastic utensils that seems to teleport itself into the bag. We'll even fish them out before we leave and hand them back to the clerk. Cut it off at the source! But both I (when I worked) and DW bring home plastic utensils. We toss them in the dishwasher and they go back to work, either for our own use or the monthly birthday cake or what have you. There does not seem to be serious resistance to reusing the utensils as long as they're clean.
I get so discouraged that there are so many consumers that don't even think about anything other than getting what they want, and then later putting it in the trash.
Those consumers exist because the cost of disposal is not made known to them and, even if it were, they're not paying for it directly. It's treated like so many other things which are "free". If it were made clear to consumers that they would have to pay the cost of disposal of whatever -- plastic utensils, plastic packaging, dead electronics and cars -- you'd likely see behavior change pretty quickly.
I agree Steve. I always thought it would be a good learning experience for people to not get trash pick-up for a few months.....or a year. But we would probably end up with lots of trash in our woods out here.
People who eat fast food a lot should carry their own utensils in the car. (Actually, they should be carrying their lunches). But to many, this is an outrageous concept. They're Americans dammit, and they shouldn't have to put up with this injustice.
SteveinMN
10-21-14, 10:22am
People who eat fast food a lot should carry their own utensils in the car. (Actually, they should be carrying their lunches). But to many, this is an outrageous concept. They're Americans dammit, and they shouldn't have to put up with this injustice.
The notion of "the common good" is pretty much dead in 'Murica, I think. :( Gotta hit people in the wallet. If they still believe strongly enough in what they're doing, they'll pay for the privilege. I'm fine with that. But I believe most people won't.
ApatheticNoMore
10-21-14, 10:52am
I know in Calif there are 16 facilities that do compost biodegradable corn-based plastics but you probably have to get them there your self. Too much work and hassle for most people probably.
I didn't know that. I'll look into it but at this point it would be in addition to taking recylables to the recycling place, electronics to electronic waste, and trying to recycle CRV recyclables at a separate place for money. So it would bring it up to 4 places I'm taking stuff to, so I get the work and hassle.
I carry a set of these in my purse for work cafeteria lunches:
http://www.worldmarket.com/category/kitchen-entertaining/flatware.do?c=6.100163&material=Plastic&pp=47&sortby=ourPicksAscend&cx=0
I applaud this. I use plastic bags to this day but turn right around and recycle them but you know, it wouldn't hurt me to invest the small amount of money to buy a cloth bag and not use the plastic bags to begin with. I'd like to see them banned in Arizona, too, but we'll see if that happens down the road.....Rob
For me it's not about investing. I can get bags. I just forget them. The only time I don't is when I shop at the one store that doesn't supply them. A ban is the only way I'll ever get in the habit! I've tried!
ToomuchStuff
10-23-14, 3:34pm
For me it's not about investing. I can get bags. I just forget them. The only time I don't is when I shop at the one store that doesn't supply them. A ban is the only way I'll ever get in the habit! I've tried!
My father does the habit of emptying them and after all the groceries are away, putting them back in the trunk. Changing habits never seems easy.
I didn't know that. I'll look into it but at this point it would be in addition to taking recylables to the recycling place, electronics to electronic waste, and trying to recycle CRV recyclables at a separate place for money. So it would bring it up to 4 places I'm taking stuff to, so I get the work and hassle.
In San Francisco I believe that you can put corn based plastics in your curbside compost pickup. All the street fairs use the corn plastic cups for beer and soda and then encourage you to,out the used cup in the compost bin.
Miss Cellane
10-25-14, 6:56am
And, imho, it does no good to say "oh......but I use them for dog poop, or taking stuff to goodwill, etc." because they will still most likely end up in the earth. And recycling takes alot of resources and energy too.
I'll admit I think of reusing a plastic bag for dog poop, or even a trash can liner, or a litter bag in a car as better than just throwing the bag away.
It's not perfect, I'll grant you. But it is reusing the bag. And that makes so that one plastic bag eventually hits the landfill, instead of two. People are reusing what they already have, instead of buying new bags just to throw them out.
So your net benefits are that there are fewer bags in the landfill, plus fewer bags are sold, which means fewer bags are manufactured, which means less oil is used to produce the bags and less pollution is caused in making the bags. Overall, I do think that reusing plastic bags makes a difference.
And maybe that difference is not enough. And maybe everyone with a dog who needs to scoop the poop should be using a more eco-friendly solution. But baby steps.
In order for me to throw *anything* away, I need to use a plastic bag. That's the system my town has come up with--trash is put out in special trash bags sold by the city. It's $1.50 for a 15 gallon bag, $2.75 for a 30 gallon bag. Recycling, and my town recycles just about everything you can recycle with curbside pick-up, is free.
It's amazing how many people started recycling once the town went to this program, instead of free pick-up for both trash and recycling. Once they started to see how much not recycling was costing them, every week, nearly everyone in town has started to recycle. You can tell by the number of bins out by the road on trash day.
So, everyone uses at least one plastic bag for trash each week, or every other week (that's me). And even without the trash bag system, they would still probably use a regular old plastic bag for their trash. But a lot more gets recycled. It's not perfect, but it's better than it was before.
That's what I think we should strive for. Not perfect, but better than it was before.
My father does the habit of emptying them and after all the groceries are away, putting them back in the trunk. Changing habits never seems easy.
I do the same thing. I've also made more mad dashes from the back of the check-out line to the car than I can count because I forgot to take them in to the store with me. I keep hoping the blueberries in my smoothies will start to counteract that effect, but I can't remember what its like to have a good memory.
I keep my cloth bags in the passenger seat. They aren't as easy to forget when they're right beside you.
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