View Full Version : the Ebola situation
So, I am having a "discussion" with two people on FB about the current case of Ebola in TX. Here's the gist: Friend posts a thing about how Liberia is going to prosecute the man who has Ebola in Dallas, because he filled out his exit customs form to say that he hadn't been in contact with anyone infected, when in fact he had. I respond that it's possible the man was confused by customs forms (I sure was when we went to Honduras), or encouraged by someone else to say "no" on the "have you been exposed" question, or in a little bit of denial about his possible exposure, or plain scared s***less by the possibility that he would be facing a terrible illness in a country that's unable to do anywhere close to a decent job of treating or quarantining people, and would die there without ever seeing his family again. DSIS responded to this, as well as DFriend that the guy should be arrested, screw him, he started an outbreak here, etc.
Here's how I see it: a guy saw someone who needed his help. A pregnant woman who wasn't doing well. Maybe she was just having pregnancy trouble, maybe she had other issues, maybe she had Ebola. Guy doesn't think "leave her to die", instead he helps. Well, crap, she *does* have Ebola. His flight back to the US comes up and he feels fine. He fills out the form and says he wasn't exposed, for any of the reasons listed. He gets home, sees his family, thinks everything will be fine and then...gets a fever. Now he's no doubt in a world of hurt that may still kill him and that at best you would wish on no one but your worst enemy. His family, at best, is quarantined for weeks and at worst comes down with the virus themselves. This for a guy who, in any other circumstance, might be featured on Upworthy. Instead, he's being judged by everyone. May he have a strong spirit.
I just don't understand the judgy-ness. WTF good will it do to prosecute this man? To hate him? In all likelihood, he only wanted to get home and see his family, something every human being can understand. I know people who are highly intelligent, but who lost all sense when something 1/10 this threatening happened to prevent them from temporarily seeing their child or partner. Or made small obfuscations of the truth when push came to shove and it meant the difference between helping their family or seeing their family and not. I would wager that 90% of people would do something like this if in a similar situation.
Anyway, I just thought I'd share/vent.
ApatheticNoMore
10-2-14, 11:46pm
And if he ends up infecting others and they die from it? Now I'm not saying that will happen. I'm just saying why serious precautions get taken to contain infectious disease. Is ebola going to become an epidemic or is it just a one off thing? I'm not sure anyone knows at this point (I think like many disease it has some small potential to become so). We might lie to get into the country, but it's all perfectly understandable why it's not considered acceptable for disease control to do so.
It's a collective versus individual good thing, and a hard one (they are taking the collective good side even if they would be hypocrites in the same situation), not some kind of win-win situation. Yes as an individual these behaviors make sense, but for protecting the health of many more people it doesn't.
I can see nearly everyones' point of view, on this--I will qualify this by saying: everyones' POV that is within reason. The dilemma we face in this situation and so many other serious issues is--how do we take effective action without hurting someones feelings, limiting their freedom, suppressing their human rights, achieving full cooperation, and so on. See? All these considerations potentially impede stopping this epidemic, when time is of the essence. I fear it could get out of hand and kill millions, worldwide. The politics of it is probably more difficult than the technical challenges to medical science. Hope that helps you some.
Political theater.
The guy has Ebola. The survival rate for the strain he has is, what, 30-40%? Posturing about charging him with anything before he's managed to live through the next week or so seems a bit silly.
flowerseverywhere
10-3-14, 6:50am
It is the Liberian authorities who have mentioned looking into charges. The airport authorities for lying on his form. The Liberian president made a statement about how thankful they were for US help and how unforgivable it would be if it turned out he lied. They are a long way from making charges. I believe his brother said he had never been to the US and it was a girlfriend he was visiting. I found no mention if they were his kids.
He he also has put many of his fellow citizens at risk for discrimination. When these things happen, people panic and jump to conclusions. I would not be surprised to see airlines cancel flights or countries refuse to accept people who originated in the Ebola countries due to popular opinion. After all the people that make the laws want to be re- elected as well as keep their constituents safe.
Personally, we are extra careful with hand washing, rarely eat in restaurants where a sneeze could spread even a simple cold and try to be in the best health possible. Panicking is not helpful, but we would be prepared to stay home for several weeks at least if someone in our area was diagnosed. Our preps are the same as if we were to have a hurricane or other natural disaster. The fewer people the authorities have to deal with the better.
What ever happens in Texas might be looked at as setting precedence, but it's unfortunate that the Liberian man will be used as an example. The arrival of an Ebola positive case in the U.S. was somewhat inevitable and I imagine it will not be the last. No doubt the same thing will happen in other countries that are less prepared to isolate and treat. I wonder what will happen when flu season gets going full blast since some of the symptoms are similar.
Thankfully, Ebola is not especially communicable. This chart on how communicable Ebola is eased my concerns. Of course, being a virus, it can mutate as it passes through it's victims a become a bigger threat. I don't think the official reaction is overblown, but the public panic probably is. http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2014/10/02/352983774/no-seriously-how-contagious-is-ebola
Teacher Terry
10-3-14, 4:49pm
While it is true many people would do the same thing it does not make it right. Sometimes you have to think of your fellow man & not yourself. Soldiers do it all the time & sacrifice their lives for others. Yes he did a good thing-sometimes no good deed goes unpunished. But that does not let him off the hook if he even lives.
gimmethesimplelife
10-3-14, 10:00pm
I wonder what the realistic potential is for a out of control outbreak in North America? I didn't want to exclude our Canadian posters here and Mexico means so much to me so I used "North America" here. I don't have the background and the knowledge to offer an opinion but some of us here do work in health care, so I am hoping to hear from someone in health care on this. Rob
I don't know what the patient thought or didn't know at first. But by the time he was showing worsening symptoms, his own relative called the CDC to complain that Ebola was a possibility and the patient wasn't getting proper treatment. And then the patient's household members refused to stay indoors under quarantine (and have now been moved to a home in a gated community under guard, at government expense). These actions piss me off - the family knew something was seriously wrong, and declined to adhere to standard public health protocols.
One thing I find interesting is how Ebola has pushed coverage of enterovirus D68 pretty much right out the window - even though it's basically everywhere at this point (42 states at least), has sent many children to the hospital, has likely killed several children, and has some unproven connection with weak limbs and paralysis in a number of cases (polio is also an enterovirus). Much bigger risk here (at least for children), but doesn't seem to have the same "terror" factor. Which is bad, there are steps they can take to reduce possible exposure, but I expect people are much more focused on people returning from Africa than on sick local kids in daycares and classrooms.
One thing I find interesting is how Ebola has pushed coverage of enterovirus D68 pretty much right out the window - even though it's basically everywhere at this point (42 states at least), has sent many children to the hospital, has likely killed several children, and has some unproven connection with weak limbs and paralysis in a number of cases (polio is also an enterovirus). Much bigger risk here (at least for children), but doesn't seem to have the same "terror" factor. Which is bad, there are steps they can take to reduce possible exposure, but I expect people are much more focused on people returning from Africa than on sick local kids in daycares and classrooms.
I tried to bring it up, but you're right--it doesn't seem as scary, coming as it does from right here in the old US of A. As I also pointed out--like most of the terrorists and assassins we've dealt with over time.
well, looking for the silver lining, maybe the frenzy of fear about Ebola will result in more people using universal precaustions and hand-washing, which would reduce transmissions of all infections, including all types of viruses.
I wonder what the realistic potential is for a out of control outbreak in North America?
Never say never, but the chances of that kind of outbreak in the US or Canada is almost non-existent and appears only slightly more possible in Mexico. Possible in the sense that it is also possible you can be hit by lightning on a clear day. We're far better off to keep paying attention to the enterovirus creaker mentioned or, for that matter, to start paying attention to type II diabetes.
We're far better off to keep paying attention to the enterovirus creaker mentioned or, for that matter, to start paying attention to type II diabetes.
Sadly, here in Central Jersey, we've had the first enterovirus death: a 4-year old boy.
Sadly, here in Central Jersey, we've had the first enterovirus death: a 4-year old boy.
That is so very sad. Is that the little boy who had pinkeye, and went to bed and died? Those poor parents!!
IshbelRobertson
10-7-14, 1:26pm
A nurse in Spain has been diagnosed with Ebola.
flowerseverywhere
10-7-14, 4:57pm
A nurse in Spain has been diagnosed with Ebola.
Yes, she worked in some rooms where the patients, two missionaries were in isolation from what I have read. There is quite a of discrepancy between the different online versions of the story. And she and her husband are in isolation from what I can see many others are being monitored like in the US.
the number of cases worldwide is at least 7500.
Yossarian
10-10-14, 6:35am
Never say never, but the chances of that kind of outbreak in the US or Canada is almost non-existent and appears only slightly more possible in Mexico. Possible in the sense that it is also possible you can be hit by lightning on a clear day. We're far better off to keep paying attention to the enterovirus creaker mentioned or, for that matter, to start paying attention to type II diabetes.
Interesting take on the south of the border scenario
http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2014/10/08/top-us-general-says-ebola-outbreak-coming-through-central-america-is-real/?cmpid=GoogleNewsEditorsPicks&google_editors_picks=true (http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2014/10/08/top-us-general-says-ebola-outbreak-coming-through-central-america-is-real/?cmpid=GoogleNewsEditorsPicks&google_editors_picks=true)
The key phrase in that article is "if an outbreak there were to occur". Certainly that's possible, and I'm not an expert on international travel patterns, but I suspect that the number of people traveling from west Africa to central America is fairly low. Multiply that by the low number of people actually traveling with Ebola and the likelihood of this scenario occuring is small. I can see why this keeps the general awake. It's his job to worry about these types of things, even if the possibility is really really small.
Personally I'm still much more concerned about getting flattened by a bus on my way to work this morning. The likelihood of that happening is an order of magnitude more likely than my ever coming in contact with Ebola.
I am starting to feel that the government is lying about the severity of which it could be, Ebola in the USA. I am concerned about international travel, which my husband does. The lack or misinformed education that the Airlines seem to have. I have never felt this way before about the item of the moment.
Wonderful news...
http://dailyprincetonian.com/news/2014/10/health-officer-grosser-addresses-ebola-in-princeton/
How things have been handled is absolutely ridiculous. I have totally lost faith in the CDC and some of the healthcare workers. Supposedly a nurse who had taken care of the guy from Liberia who died, wanted to fly to Ohio. She was developing a fever and supposedly called the CDC and they told her not to worry, that it was okay to go. Can this possibly be true? DH brought up the possibility that maybe she didn't really call the CDC. Then I heard that they couldn't identify who had told her that. Regardless, as a thinking "medical professional" she should have known to put herself into quarantine. Incompetence all over the place. :(
Though a different type of disease, this all reminds me of how AIDS got started. There is a great article about it in the current issue of Vanity Fair if one wants to know the historic origins of this strain. One fruit bat, one child, one village.It mentions that the Chinese and others clear cut the forests that the bats lived in which might have caused them to go into villages for fruit since their normal habitat was destroyed.
Considering the errors in judgement the CDC and Texas hospital have made, it's slightly difficult to buy into the reassuring hand holding the authorities are doing to avoid some sort of panic. I could get a little worried, especially if it shows up in more of the third world areas like Mexico, Central America, or Asia.
iris lilies
10-16-14, 10:55pm
Considering the errors in judgement the CDC and Texas hospital have made, it is slightly difficult to buy into the reassuring hand holding the authorities are doing to avoid some sort of panic. I could get a little worried, especially if it shows up in more of the third world countries like Mexico, Central America, or Asia.
But it will show up there, why wouldn't it?
But it will show up there, why wouldn't it?
I'm surprised it hasn't happened already, especially Asia.
At this point it's still too early to know what the real deal is. Yes it's scary. But then, so was AIDS back when it was still called GRID (gay related immune disease). Maybe i'll be wrong, but I'll be surprised if anyone ends up getting this disease because the nurse was on a plane. Unless she was oozing puss or whatever, or unless we totally don't have an accurate understanding of how this disease is transmitted, she probably didn't cause any risk to others as a result of her flying. After all, no one that was on the plane with the guy she was caring for seems to have come down with the disease, yet he had been infected weeks earlier.
Personally I fly often, both for work and for pleasure (if by pleasure one means going to check on one's dying father...) and will continue to do so. I will also continue to make an effort not to touch my face while on a plane and to run to the first restroom I see in the airport after deplaning so that I can wash my hands. (I've long assumed that every surface on a plane is covered in germs. THere's gotta be a reason the cleaning crew always wear latex gloves...) If I disappear from this forum because I've died from ebola I would imagine you'll be hearing about me on the news. But frankly I'm still more worried about getting run over by a bus. Unless circumstances change pretty radically that's still the much more likely cause of my death if I'm to die in the near future. And if I disappear from this forum and you don't hear about me on the news you'll probably have to google San Francisco bus accident to find out what happened because it certainly won't make the national news.
And for anyone truly freaked out by this it would seem pretty easy to limit your likelihood of exposure. Don't fly. Don't go to an ER. Wash your hands often.
But it will show up there, why wouldn't it?
It depends on how quickly the disease expands. One of the pluses that we have compared to HIV is that this disease presents much sooner. And that it's not infectious until it does present. Unless ebola either mutates in some way to make it either 1) more easily transmitted, or 2) latent for a longer period of time, it will likely be a much easier disease to stop than HIV.
And for anyone truly freaked out by this it would seem pretty easy to limit your likelihood of exposure. Don't fly. Don't go to an ER. Wash your hands often.
I think the real personal risk isn't so much getting the disease as the aftermath of public reactions. Already they are talking about restricting or banning travel from W. Africa. So what if we have travel restrictions from places that supply our t-shirts and tennis shoes (or more). I can see the effects trickling into the global economy and affecting stock markets, health care costs, the pricing and availability of consumer goods, and GDPs of various countries. They are saying some of the recent stock market declines might be due in part to Ebola fear. Not to discount the loss of life, but public fears and maybe over-reactions are probably the real risk at the personal level for most of us here in America.
Not to worry. The President has appointed an Ebola Czar. I hear the guy did some crackerjack work with Solyndra.
Not to worry. The President has appointed an Ebola Czar. I hear the guy did some crackerjack work with Solyndra.That guy is a political appointment. We already have an acting Surgeon General and an HHS Secretary for Preparedness and Response, although they don't seem to be involved in this issue. I suspect our new Czar's primary responsibility is to re-direct, reflect & blame.
ApatheticNoMore
10-17-14, 12:30pm
They are saying some of the recent stock market declines might be due in part to Ebola fear.
If one is going to attribute stock market behavior to anything, which may be the ultimate fools errand (on the level of: "why has my luck been so bad? oh right a broken mirror!"), then if one is reaching for things like Ebola to correlate with it, one is really reaching. It seems like the most likely cause of the stock market declines is the threatened removal of QE3. So supposedly the Fed has made some noises about ending QE3 in late October:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/10957878/US-Federal-Reserve-on-course-to-end-QE3-in-October.html
And this is the mostly likely cause because stocks have tanked whenever the end of a QE neared. This actually seems to have some pattern, Ebola not so much so. But of course the Fed has not outright said they WILL end QE3, they have just said things like "if recovery remains on track then we will wind it down" etc.. One might even say the stock market does this in order so it's dealer (the Fed) with it's injections of sweet sweet QE, doesn't abandon it, but that might be a bridge too far for some. It's a ridiculous system, needing billions in injections every month. To the financial world I'd figure Ebola is just another uncertainty in a world that has always been uncertain, unless it actually reached massive pandemic purportions of course.
As for the CDC, government spokespeople lie, and of course of a government as corrupt as the U.S.. But really probably everywhere, look at the Japanese government and fukushima. But unless the agency systematically weeds out good people (a bad corporate culture will do this) I imagine some people in the CDC are in it for the right reasons (because they care about public health).
jp1..........and when you do run to that bathroom, be sure to not use your hand to flush the toilet, and after you wash your hands well, don't turn off the faucet........get a towel, dry your hands, and then turn off the faucet. And use a paper towel to open up the door when you leave. (Oh........and what about your butt if you sat on the toilet??) So much to consider!
And now the lab person who "may" have come in contact with Duncan's vials of blood went on a cruise and now he's in isolation on the cruise ship, until they can get him off. The Cruiseline is trying to figure out what the heck to do. This is such a joke. We're falling apart at the seams...........
That guy is a political appointment. We already have an acting Surgeon General and an HHS Secretary for Preparedness and Response, although they don't seem to be involved in this issue. I suspect our new Czar's primary responsibility is to re-direct, reflect & blame.
Well, I'm certainly surprised it took 3 whole pages of this thread to get around to blaming the President. What took y'all so long? You're really falling down on the republican job here.
No, we don't have a Surgeon General. And why is that? Why, it's the NRA owned Republicans who blocked this very competent man.
The CDC has also had it's budget slashed, again, thanks to republicans. Remember, no regulations means no regulations...even those restricting flights. Now isn't that imposing on the FREEDOMS of many Americans? Good republicans wouldn't want to do THAT now would they?
Hey, I've got an idea. Why don't we close the border. I mean the border between Texas and the rest of the country. That way we can keep those free loading disease carrying folks out of the rest of the clean, honest, ebola fearing US.
Wouldn't NOW be a good time to let them secede?
My university had a student on the flight the second nurse was on; he/she has been quarantined though the media says he/she was not in "the possible zone" of contamination. Additionally, several schools have closed in nearby towns for the same reason. I wonder if all this after the fact caution is for show or really means something.
If one is going to attribute stock market behavior to anything, which may be the ultimate fools errand (on the level of: "why has my luck been so bad? oh right a broken mirror!")...
That's an opinion, ANM, but the prevailing thought is the recent stock market drop is a function of many things that include the end of Q3, Ebola, ISIS and a slowing economy overseas. You can type into Google, Ebola and stock market, and sort through the multiple pages of returns.
Well, I'm certainly surprised it took 3 whole pages of this thread to get around to blaming the President. What took y'all so long? You're really falling down on the republican job here.
No, we don't have a Surgeon General. And why is that? Why, it's the NRA owned Republicans who blocked this very competent man.
The CDC has also had it's budget slashed, again, thanks to republicans. Remember, no regulations means no regulations...even those restricting flights. Now isn't that imposing on the FREEDOMS of many Americans? Good republicans wouldn't want to do THAT now would they?
Hey, I've got an idea. Why don't we close the border. I mean the border between Texas and the rest of the country. That way we can keep those free loading disease carrying folks out of the rest of the clean, honest, ebola fearing US.
Wouldn't NOW be a good time to let them secede?
Hey Peg, it's good to see you again.
Now, of course you know that we do have a very competent acting Surgeon General, Rear Admiral Boris D. Lushniak, M.D., M.P.H., and you also probably know that the House approved a higher budget for the CDC than the President requested for FY '14, which was put to good use conducting studies to determine why lesbians are fat, studying the behavior of drunken monkeys, and the effects of cocaine on Japanese quail's sex drive, among other things (you'd think they'd do a better job of prioritizing). At any rate, knowing that they got more than the President asked for, you should really thank those House Republicans, shouldn't you?
Not only is it a political appointment, but the "czar" is Ron Klain, whose background is a political adviser and lawyer. I would feel much more comfortable with some sort of medical expert or at least someone with a technical background. I have the feeling that the direction and activity of the CDC goes back through multiple regimes and partisans and any blame is more encompassing than the current.
I was surprised at the person they appointed as the Ebola Czar too. He isn't a medical doctor and, from what I can see, hasn't really had any experience in that area. Seems to me the head of the CDC or someone with a similar medical background should be in charge, not a political appointee who was Biden's something or other before.
My personal concern with an Ebola outbreak - or even just the belief that one is possible - is that medical workers and first responders will not be as responsive to a sick person out of fear. Hard to tell if it's the flu or Ebola. Same with other workers like airline personnel, cleaners (airline cleaners have already striked and refused to clean international flights), etc... We've already seen how easily it can potentially spread to many people from just one infected person.
Too Bad I'm not the Czar of Ebola. Since decisive action is required, I'd immediately close the Football stadiums & Pizza Places, to stop the spread of this deadly plague.
The CDC has also had it's budget slashed, again, thanks to republicans.
The Washington Post awarded this claim four pinnochios.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/wp/2014/10/15/the-absurd-claim-that-only-republicans-are-to-blame-for-cuts-to-ebola-research/
Hey Peg, it's good to see you again.
Now, of course you know that we do have a very competent acting Surgeon General, Rear Admiral Boris D. Lushniak, M.D., M.P.H., and you also probably know that the House approved a higher budget for the CDC than the President requested for FY '14, which was put to good use conducting studies to determine why lesbians are fat, studying the behavior of drunken monkeys, and the effects of cocaine on Japanese quail's sex drive, among other things (you'd think they'd do a better job of prioritizing). At any rate, knowing that they got more than the President asked for, you should really thank those House Republicans, shouldn't you?
I keep hearing about this "Ebola Panic", but the only place I'm seeing it is among our political and media chattering classes. The Democrats in particular seem terrified of being blamed for this virus, and have launched a sort of 'fear itself" campaign, with an added "its the GOP's fault" meme just in case. It's only natural they bring in a political fixer to coordinate a political effort.
I'm not seeing any kind of mass terror in the general population. Just a collection of hacks stampeding to spin things in their favor,
Hey Peg, it's good to see you again.
Now, of course you know that we do have a very competent acting Surgeon General, Rear Admiral Boris D. Lushniak, M.D., M.P.H., and you also probably know that the House approved a higher budget for the CDC than the President requested for FY '14, which was put to good use conducting studies to determine why lesbians are fat, studying the behavior of drunken monkeys, and the effects of cocaine on Japanese quail's sex drive, among other things (you'd think they'd do a better job of prioritizing). At any rate, knowing that they got more than the President asked for, you should really thank those House Republicans, shouldn't you?
And you know, Alan, that isn't who the President of the United States picked to be Surgeon General. His pick has been blocked by the NRA (apparently our 'elected' representatives) for having the audacity to state the painfully obvious fact that gun deaths/violence is an American problem.
I just love how the cut cut cut cut republicans suddenly want to get credit for spending. Up is down and in is out. Seriously, The Washington Post isn't exactly a credible rag to get info from. I'm just saying...
You, who are criticizing Obama for his 'slow' response to 3 whole cases of ebola must really think St Ronnie of the Reagan was the absolute worst president in history for allowing over 20,000 Americans to die of HIV before even acknowledging it.
And no, the CZAR isn't 'in charge' of the medical process in this. He is simply a coordinator between the gov and the 'boots' on the ground so to speak. What is needed is a manager/coordinator. Not a medical doctor. Or, best case, someone who is both...kind of like a Surgeon General...
The CDC has also had it's budget slashed, again, thanks to republicans. ...
"Agency Leading Ebola Response Has Had Budget Cut Nearly $600 Million since 2010" -
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/01/ebola-cdc-budget_n_5913844.html
Remember the pure libertarians don't believe there's a need for federal agencies like CDC or NIH, but when a health crisis appears it's the federal government that must handle it.
Ft Campbell 101st Airborne has gone to "help" out the Ebola Crisis. I feel for the service people, the loved ones, but I hope I am out of the area before they all start returning. I can already see the news of the area quarantines, scare and worry.
jp1..........and when you do run to that bathroom, be sure to not use your hand to flush the toilet, and after you wash your hands well, don't turn off the faucet........get a towel, dry your hands, and then turn off the faucet. And use a paper towel to open up the door when you leave. (Oh........and what about your butt if you sat on the toilet??) So much to consider!
Have you been in a public restroom lately? Specifically an airport restroom? No doors, no faucet handles, no toilet flush handles in any of them... Even the paper towell dispensers in most of them are touchless. You've got a point about the sitting on the toilet thing. As a guy I generally avoid doing that in a public restroom. I realize that half the population doesn't have that luxury.
The ick factor, of public bathrooms. I can say maybe once a year I had to use one in the past. Then with all the road commuting in the last year, sadly it is many on the 8-10 hour drive each way and back a few times a month. Yes I actually counted one time when I was being discussed about stopping. I stop at what seem to be clean places and I have still seen it all, good heavens bathing in the sink!
Can somebody open up a thread on the "Preparedness" forum on this subject? I would, but I am too busy getting prepared right now.
Also, I think we should open up a thread here under public policy, so we can have a discussion of what to do about the insidious Pizza Pandemic.
Ft Campbell 101st Airborne has gone to "help" out the Ebola Crisis. I feel for the service people, the loved ones, but I hope I am out of the area before they all start returning. I can already see the news of the area quarantines, scare and worry.
From what I've read the support the army is providing will be in building hospitals and such. Not in dealing with people that are sick. The likelihood that any of them will come home with ebola, if what I've read is accurate, is incredibly small. And if they do in fact have any interaction with ebola patients I would imagine that the army will quarantine the soldiers until they are sure that none have the disease.
The media has done a great job of whipping up fear about this but really, as I've said before, every one of us is much more likely to get run over by a bus. Or die from the flu this winter. Or die in a non-bus car crash. I think Rogar has it right. The real thing to fear from ebola isn't dying from it but overreaction to the fear of it causing all sorts of other problems, economic and otherwise. If you look at prior outbreaks the number of people affected is relatively small compared to the populations of the affected countries. Other countries with much less sophisticated healthcare and sanitation practices have managed to stop outbreaks of it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebola_virus_disease There's a reason for that. It's just not a particularly successful virus. It doesn't spread via the air, people aren't infectious until they get sick, it doesn't live long outside the body, especially in non-tropical climates where things dry quickly.
flowerseverywhere
10-19-14, 9:12am
What is not helping is the widespread unfounded panic.
You our know what will help stop it? Sending body bags, hazmat suits, soap, chlorine, food support and supportive medical supplies to the affected areas. Assisting those countries with their health campaigns to prevent the further spread. Here in the US ramping up our medical and first responder training and supplies. For everyone to do more hand washing the world over. Not touching your food with your hands unless you just washed them , and keeping your hands away from your face and out of your eyes, nose and mouth. Being crazy is not helpful. Being sensible and prepared and ramping up our own personal hygiene the world over is.
sweetana3
10-19-14, 9:28am
Flowerseverywhere: the voice of reason. There is almost as much danger in Mult Drug or Extremely Drug Resistant TB but we hear little about it.
If only everyone could be as rational as flowerseverywhere. I just read that a school in Maine forced a teacher to go on leave for 21 days because she had gone to Dallas. Not to the hospital where they've been dealing with Ebola. Just to Dallas. Ridiculous.
The closing of schools in Ohio and sending cruise ships away from ports is absurd. Everyone is jumping on the fear mongering bandwagon. Glenn Beck is one of those who makes a living by those means and so I've never actually watched his show. That said, someone told me about a demo he did on TV that used food to simulate the conditions encountered when treating an ebola patient. He also supposedly followed the same protection protocols that were followed in Dallas. I watched it through the link below. Is it sensational and overacted and meant to push a purely political point? Of course it is. BUT it did make me think a little more about how the mechanics of stopping the spread of the disease would work. The interesting part, to me, is about 9:00 into the clip when he starts to remove the protective clothing. I didn't think he overtly tried to sabotage the the experiment just to prove his point. Regardless, I thought the demonstration was thought provoking.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/10/15/hilarious-and-horrifying-beck-uses-spaghetti-to-demonstrate-just-how-quickly-ebola-can-spread/
http://www.sacbee.com/opinion/editorial-cartoons/p4jajm/picture2664081/alternates/FREE_960/Hq3mO.So.4.jpeg
flowerseverywhere
10-19-14, 10:52pm
Read this article. Fascinating about how some countries beat the outbreak.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/ebola-how-to-stop-the-disease-dead-in-its-tracks/article21159394/
http://www.sacbee.com/opinion/editorial-cartoons/p4jajm/picture2664081/alternates/FREE_960/Hq3mO.So.4.jpegHa Ha - Of course withg all those things you get to enjoy the ride to early death by your own hands. Not so much with Ebola.
That 400,000 figure of deaths caused by obesity was debunked long ago, http://junkfoodscience.blogspot.com/2007/11/fat-and-long-life-obesity-crisis-is.html
and the others illustrated are probably just as suspect. No need to refute the hysteria around Ebola with the hysteria around the human condition. Let me know when we find a cure for death.
Let me know when we find a cure for death.
My doctor is a realist. He once told me our goal was to control my diabetes long enough for something else to kill me.
I find this to be a comforting thought concerning Ebola:
http://www.utexas.edu/news/2014/10/14/ebola-immunization/
....so happy to hear that the 2 Dallas nurses are doing well!
JaneV2.0
10-24-14, 10:03pm
And Bentley, the dog!
I agree with Rogar and others that the main concern is the fear of Ebola, not Ebola itself. It is a fact that the Surgeon General has not been confirmed, and an opinion that this is likely due to politics. It is a fact that funding for biomedical research has dropped especially when calculated against inflation.
It is likely that these things could contribute, possibly heavily, to a poorer federal response to any infectious-disease outbreak. It is likely that the reaction to Ebola is hugely overrated, and that a scientifically illiterate population that gets much of its explanations from the general media would have trouble figuring out what is going on.
Somewhere in the ballpark of 20,00-40,000 people in the United States each year die from the flu. Flu vaccinations are inexpensive and often free. The levels of measles and other vaccine-preventable diseases have not *yet* reached this proportion, but I suspect that if a rumor were to start that measles (or tDap, or HPV) vaccine also helped prevent Ebola, that you would see many people hurrying to get in line to get the measles vaccine or whatever.
As for flying, I would worry about Ebola if, say, my seatmate vomited on me during the flight and then was shown to be positive for Ebola. If not, I'd worry about norovirus. (Either way I would be disgusted) As it is, I normally bring some disinfecting wipes and wipe down the tray table, seatbelt and arm rests. I usually bring a water bottle that I fill with the drinking fountain after security and drink on the plane...because the flight attendant is touching every cup and because things are crammed, he or she often touches the top of the cup where you drink. I bring my own snacks and when I eat them if I haven't disinfected my hands, I pour them into my mouth rather than grab with fingers. I keep one hand "clean" for touching food, and other for touching anything else.
As for PPE for health care workers-even holding to BSL3 standards with little training is difficult. BSL4 prep takes even more care and is even more difficult to work in. I'm not surprised that health care workers made mistakes, especially if they didn't have much training.
ApatheticNoMore
10-24-14, 11:25pm
The thing is what people die of now being far more likely to be something other than Ebola, isn't that kind of the entirely the wrong way to think about a new (at least in the U.S.) infectious disease? (wouldn't the threat be that it multiplies? And a disease that multiplies can start out with a small number right?). The right question is how easily transmitted something is and how likely it is to be transmitted right?
I can't bother myself to really care one way or other what the stock market does. But I still don't think that's to do with ebola.
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